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  • TUESDAY NOVEMBER 4 2008 11:00 AM

Filtering the Truth: Religion - Friend or Foe?

Submitted by RPatrick_Filter

Edited by nicole_powers

Tags: Politics, Religion

Spirituality is a wonderful thing. I have my reservations about religion though. Although some think it's one in the same, I do not. In fact, I think we'd be better off if we all thought that way. Who's to say whose God is the right one to worship? If you pick the wrong one, are you going to be damned even if you live a good life? And what if your deity tells you to do one thing while another tells someone else that you are misguided? With all the strife in the world and all the conflict it causes, I have to wonder... at what point does religion hinder us?

For the last 10 years of my life, I've been pretty non-religious in my personal life. I have spoken out in subtle ways, putting deliberate lyrics out on my albums Short Bus, Title of Record and The Amalgamut that hinted at the beliefs and questions I have on the topic. Something that has always comforted me, as an American, was that the United States was founded on the ideals of FREEDOM: Freedom of religion and freedom of speech. But the reality is, if we do not adhere to the mainstream ideals of religion, we might not feel free to speak our minds.

When I am talking openly about my thoughts on the subject, some people roll their eyes in disgust, like I'm some kind of an asshole because I don't believe like they do. In times of trouble, I turn to what I consider to be my Higher Power-not a higher BEING but a higher POWER...which is the incredible power of nature. So I understand this need to believe in something greater than oneself. But THEIR religion is not MY answer. What's wrong with that?

Now why is this guy brining up THIS topic on the Suicide Girls site, you may be asking yourself right about now... and the reason is: Bill Maher's Religulous and the movie W. Two great new films, which moved me to speak my mind about religion, its unfortunate place in our government, and how -- depending on your perspective -- it might not be such a good thing for the planet.

Many years ago, peasants were stealing from each other and murderers were running rampant throughout the world. To deal with the mayhem, rulers came to the conclusion that putting the fear of God in the masses would keep them in line. Organized religion started as a way for those in power to get what they needed from the people. It's true to this day. Barack Obama was right on when he said that people on the outskirts of society, in rural areas, cling to their guns and religion. And I think that's a scary thing.

Modern organized religion just seems like a lot of hypocrisy to me. Not one religion can prove that they alone are right. Similarly none are blameless –– I mean, how many deaths have been caused by religion? Can you name one religion where people haven't died in its name?

The 19 hijackers on 9/11 read something in the Koran, declared Jihad and decided that Americans should die. Their religion was the catalyst for them to do something insane. When a right-to-lifer blows up an abortion clinic, they do it in the name of God. Save a life by taking lives? In the name of religion? Hitler killed the Jews (and other people who weren't like him, for that matter), and Christians killed people who were Christian –– but weren't the right kind –– during the Spanish Inquisition. I think religion is clouding everyone's thinking. When George W. Bush started saying, "God has spoken to me," and used this belief as an excuse to go to war with Iraq, many Christians in this country were nodding their heads and saying, "YES!"

If someone I knew said that God told him to pick a fight with someone, I would smack him in the face to snap him out of it. That's the same reason why I wouldn't make big decisions based on the advice of someone who uses an Ouija board or who believes in astrology, because it's dangerous.

I have a religious Christian friend who says the world is 6000 years old, and carbon dating is fake and unreliable –– faked by thousands of scientists and universities all over the world. He chooses to ignore the geological proof of evolution and the fact that this planet is billions of years old, scientifically speaking, because it's so overwhelmingly against the Christian version of the story. This friend of mine says that God created man out of sand in seven days... and this is coming from a 26-year-old man.

Religion blinds to the point of irrationality. It also conveniently dehumanizes. In California, we have a bill on the ballot known as Proposition 8, which deals with whether or not gay people can marry. I get calls daily from different people who have different opinions on the subject. The religious people seem to have a problem with homosexuality –– same-sex people in love –– though Jesus supposedly preached love above all else. Just because some people interpret a book to say that it's wrong for two same-sex people to be in love, our government tries to deny those people's fundamental rights to live peacefully and equally.

And then we have a religious book, the Koran, that says women should be treated like second-class citizens. They should have to cover themselves from head to toe with burkas. They should only be wives and mothers. They can't drive a car. They can't vote. In most Arab countries, they have no voice at all. It's like they don't exist. All in the name of religion. The same religion that inspires the Jihadists to bring down big, bad America.

I mean, what is all of this saying to our youth? I have a daughter. I want her to grow up knowing she can be who she is -- whoever she turns out to be -- and can do whatever she wants to do in life. Can't we put these religious texts in CONTEXT?

At times, I find myself on my knees, begging for something good to happen but wondering whom to beg. I would be really happy if there was a paradise after we die, but I don't think any of us should have to wait. My family, my friends, my planet, this should be our paradise NOW. This ain't the dress rehearsal people. This is the SHOW! We need to stop waiting for the man in the sky to take care of everything, let's do it OURSELVES. Let's do it NOW!


Richard Patrick is the frontman for the rock band Filter. Their latest album, Anthems for the Damned, which features the single "Soldiers of Misfortune," is in stores now. A download-only collection of Anthems tracks re-worked, titled Remixes for the Damned, will be available online from November 4. The band are currently on tour. Click HERE for more info.

 

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Accuser

Accuser

Scottsdale, AZ
October 2006

NOV 05, 2008 04:41 PM

Toku666 said:
Oh, and, at least as it concerns Sartre, I'd be interested to know exactly what would make anyone believe that the could, and necessarily did, make meaning in his life. I'm pretty sure he died a bitter hateful old man.

*shrug*

Also, maybe I'm being defensive, but am I sniffing a suggestion that atheism is analogous to nihilism on the air?



He may have died that way, but I think his principles are generally sound (edit: above post about Kant is spot on. Kant's model of morality is my favorite, but the man was definitely a bigot). I'm with Hitchens in his definition of anti-theism, meaning that not only do I not think there is a god/higher power/whatever you want to call that external force, I think it would be a bad thing if there was. I'd much rather have the complete and total freedom I do to seek meaning on my own terms, with no external value judgments forced on me.

And I think you're being defensive, I'm pretty quick to jump on the "atheism=nihilism" claim with fangs and claws bared, but I don't sense anyone making it here.

Sick

Sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

NOV 05, 2008 04:45 PM


Main Entry: spir i tu al i ty
Pronunciation: \%u02CCspir-i-ch%u0259-%u02C8wa-l%u0259-t"
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural spiritualities
Date: 15th century

1 : something that in ecclesiastical law belongs to the church or to a cleric as such
2 : clergy
3 : sensitivity or attachment to religious values
4 : the quality or state of being spiritual




Main Entry: spir i tu al
Pronunciation: \%u02C8spir-i-ch%u0259-w%u0259l, -i-ch%u0259l, -ich-w%u0259l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Late Latin; Anglo-French espirital, spiritual, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus
Date: 14th century

1: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 a: of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b: ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3: concerned with religious values
4: related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a: of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b: of, relating to, or involving spiritualism



I can go on to define spirit, but the point is that spirituality inherently implies a belief in the supernatural. By definition, spirituality sees organisms as more than mere biological beings, but as beings with a connection to the metaphysical--something beyond time and space.

It also implies a separation between body and soul.

Sorry, we don't get to redefine terms to suit our beliefs.

bettybruises

bettybruises

San Clemente, CA
August 2008

NOV 05, 2008 04:54 PM



SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Accuser said:

infAMY75 said:

Accuser said:

I think our argument is primarily a semantic one. I think the word "spiritual" is pretty useless, because no one's willing to define what they mean when they say it. Instead, people use it as a sort of get out of jail free card.

"I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual." What does that even mean?

You still cling to the idea that the universe was created with you in mind, that some beliefs are justified a priori and require no explanation, that there may be a limit to what we can or should achieve, that the concepts of evidence and logic are inherently flawed, and that there is an objective moral authority in the universe that we can never completely understand, but you're too lazy to go to church?*

*The "you" in this sentence isn't referring to anyone in this thread, nor is it intended to make a statement, merely to ask a question of the hypothetical person claiming spirituality but not religiosity.



As someone who says "I'm not religious but am spiritual" I don't think it means we think (or I should say I, and I think a lot of people may be with me on this) that the world was created with "us" in mind. For me, it's a way to say "I believe in something, that there is some sort of "higher power" for lack of a better term, but I don't subscribe to most conventional religions or what they teach. I know exactly what I believe in. I will explain it to anyone who honestly wants to know. It's a belief I came to on my own and is not conventional. However I am fucking sick of people who say they want to know and then tell me I'm stupid because I believe in something (and this is something A LOT of atheists in particular do, not all but a lot). So my stance is: Listen. Ask questions, but be respectful. No one will ever convince another person to reconsider their beliefs by telling said person they are stupid and there is no evidence supporting what you believe, if you are so sure they are wrong and you are right show them reasonably and gently, don't belittle them....
And some of us don't know how to explain some of our beliefs, some of us are still figuring them out...it doesn't make them any less valid. It may not be rational but that doesn't mean it's not valid and that we shouldn't respect that even if we don't agree.



Hey, Dana Point. My folks have a home there. Great little town. Ever been to the Bon Jour cafe? I think it's near the intersection of PCH and Golden Lantern. Awesome breakfast to be had there.

Anyhow, back to the subject, I can understand why you'd be less than thrilled if someone announced "You are wrong and have no evidence."

I'm not trying to do that here. I'm trying to figure out:
a) What are we talking about?
b) What is the evidence for it?

Certain questions may be uncomfortable, but that's more the fault of the beliefs than it is the fault of the person asking the questions.

I'd like to hear your explanation of your beliefs. I'm not looking to insult them. Honest. However, I will probably ask questions, and some of them might feel uncomfortable to answer.

I happen to be of the beliefs that there is nothing supernatural, everything has a natural explanation, the application of logic to evidence can lead us to better applications of science and ethics, that truth has nothing to fear from inquiry, and that, more often than not, subscribing to ill-defined or unjustified beliefs is a waste of time or even actively harmful to the self or to others.



Never been to the Bon Jour cafe, though I've seen it. I actually just moved a little further south to San Clemente. smile

Keep in mind I am kind of trying to be brief in my explanation here.
I believe people like Muhammad/Jesus/etc probably existed. I agree with some of all of their teachings. Do I believe in a or many gods? No. I believe in energy. I think there's good energy and bad energy (one may even say thoughts) and I believe that this energy is what we often refer to as "spirit" as far as death/reincarnation, etc... I look at it like this:
There's a vast source of energy (many call it "god"), my closest analogy is the sun. Each of us are like a ray of that source of energy. We can do with it what we like, we can develop it, we can transform it into negative energy, we can ignore it. When we die, it goes back to that source and sort of "recycles". It's sort of related to the law of conservation of energy.....
I die, I decompose, I feed a tree, trees provide the oxygen that we breathe......
That's about as simple as I can get with it.....
I know it doesn't sound like much and I can expand on it, but it's just what I have isolated for myself this far. And year some of it could be a problem with the belief, but belief is or should be constantly evolving. If you stop questioning and evolving you may as well be dead.

Accuser

Accuser

Scottsdale, AZ
October 2006

NOV 05, 2008 05:01 PM

So would you call yourself a pantheist?

Do you believe in reincarnation/past lives?

Do you think that Jesus/Mohammud or anyone else had some sort of special relationship with this energy you describe, so that it literally gave them ideas that were not their own but could be honestly called revelation or prophecy?

And, lastly, do you believe in psychics, auras, or numerous "alternative medicine" procedures that rely on "spiritual energy" such as acupuncture?

I recommend you head over to that cafe on a morning you can make the time, try the Tahitian French Toast. It's awesome. The Brig is also really good, though more of a standard Denny's type place than a cafe.

User4574

User4574

Redding, CA
September 2008

NOV 05, 2008 05:44 PM

Twelve said:

User4574 said:
Religion seems to be part of being human.



I would argue that it has two roots: ignorance and the early foundations of the nation-state.

Explaining one's environment is a human trait, and with the lack of better methods or tools, religion is a convenient way of doing that.

It's also a very effective tool, even for early tribal leaders, to use in demonizing one's opponents.



That may be the case, but it still is a universal aspect of being human.
Why do think there is such a fascination with supernatural horror flicks?

We are wired to accept there being more than just the natural world.

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

NOV 05, 2008 05:47 PM

User4574 said:

Twelve said:

User4574 said:
Religion seems to be part of being human.



I would argue that it has two roots: ignorance and the early foundations of the nation-state.

Explaining one's environment is a human trait, and with the lack of better methods or tools, religion is a convenient way of doing that.

It's also a very effective tool, even for early tribal leaders, to use in demonizing one's opponents.



That may be the case, but it still is a universal aspect of being human.
Why do think there is such a fascination with supernatural horror flicks?

We are wired to accept there being more than just the natural world.



I'm not. I fixed my wiring.

User4574

User4574

Redding, CA
September 2008

NOV 05, 2008 05:48 PM

Accuser said:
And, lastly, do you believe in psychics, auras, or numerous "alternative medicine" procedures that rely on "spiritual energy" such as acupuncture?



Many of those alternative medicines do work.
Perhaps not for the reasons the practitioners think, but they often do work nonetheless.

Quite a few homeopathic remedies have made their way into modern medicine despite how much modern medicine loves to bad mouth homeopathy.

Modern medicine has it's fair share of looney practices in its history as well, such as electro shock therapy, etc.

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

NOV 05, 2008 05:50 PM




Many of those alternative medicines do work.
Perhaps not for the reasons the practitioners think, but they often do work nonetheless.


It's called the placebo effect.

Varuka_Salt

Varuka_Salt

I'm lost
October 2006

NOV 05, 2008 05:50 PM



Modern medicine has it's fair share of looney practices in its history as well, such as electro shock therapy, etc.



That's actually still used to treat epilepsy, and very effectively.

User4574

User4574

Redding, CA
September 2008

NOV 05, 2008 06:22 PM

Varuka_Salt said:


Modern medicine has it's fair share of looney practices in its history as well, such as electro shock therapy, etc.



That's actually still used to treat epilepsy, and very effectively.



Is it still used to treat homosexuality?

bettybruises

bettybruises

San Clemente, CA
August 2008

NOV 05, 2008 06:22 PM

Accuser said:
So would you call yourself a pantheist?

Do you believe in reincarnation/past lives?

Do you think that Jesus/Mohammud or anyone else had some sort of special relationship with this energy you describe, so that it literally gave them ideas that were not their own but could be honestly called revelation or prophecy?

And, lastly, do you believe in psychics, auras, or numerous "alternative medicine" procedures that rely on "spiritual energy" such as acupuncture?

I recommend you head over to that cafe on a morning you can make the time, try the Tahitian French Toast. It's awesome. The Brig is also really good, though more of a standard Denny's type place than a cafe.



I don't think pantheism quite covers it. i don't even really believe in a god (little or big G) what little I know about quantum physics kind of describes what I believe in. BUT I am NOT well-versed on the subject, so I can't say "this is it". In a manner of speaking I guess you could say I believe in reincarnation but not in the sense that Hindus do. I don't think it's an individual spirit being born and reborn, I think we all might have a piece of what was any variety of people or plants or animals or...??? in us. Think of it, instead of light, like water. You have a glass of water from the Nile, a glass from the Mississippi, and a glass from the Ganges Rivers, you put them all in one container, shake it up and repour it into three separate glasses. It's still water right, but how do we know what quantity came from where? Something like that... Sorry I don't have a better analogy.
Psychics, Auras, etc...I'm not 100% sure of, sometimes I think that the mere suggestion of a psychic will make us strive to achieve what they have predicted simply because we want to believe it, or we just do believe it. Auras, I've never seen one, but who am I to say they don't exist. I do know that I have been in situations where I see a person and the hair on the back of my neck stands up for no "aparent" reason....I don't see an aura but have a definite sense that this is someone I want to get far away from, and all I can attribute that to is a sense of their "energy", animals and children are a great example of this....
And I think there's something to acupuncture but would never give up western medication 100% to seek treatment for my diabetes for example. I think a lot of alternative medicine practices may be able to help or even enhance our physical well-being, but I also don't discredit western medicine by any means. The body carries electrical currents, they've proven that things like elctric blankets mess with those currents and some argue that magnet treatments are also bad for that, maybe this is what acupuncture taps into. I'm not a scientist or a doctor, I'm an artist/lit major-bookworm/bookkeeper, so a lot of this is speculation and I am sure there is some sort of scientific explanation as to why things like acupuncture "works" for anyone who's interested in finding out....
I know there may be "holes" in my beleifs, but they make sense to me, and I haven't done extensive research mainly because I'm not selling it to anyone. So why would I develop a sales pitch? I guess, it makes sense to me and I don't force it on anyone, and me not digging up and creating a whole dogma with an answer to everything might make me "simple minded" to some, though I prefer to think of myself as a resonably intelligent person. Right now I've been on a existensialist kick, and I don't think stupid people read books like "The Age of Reason" or "Narcissus and Goldmund", but a lot of what I believe, as I mentioned earlier in an evolving thing that's just for lil ol me. Im not saying you have insinuated that I am simple-minded, its just the way some have reacted to my explanations....
and that make sme a saad panda wink

Twelve

Twelve

Bay City, MI
April 2007

NOV 05, 2008 06:25 PM

User4574 said:
We are wired to accept there being more than just the natural world.



In the absence of superior methods.

User4574

User4574

Redding, CA
September 2008

NOV 05, 2008 06:26 PM

btw - I'm epileptic - so I just did a little googling ...


81 cases reviewed yielding an incidence of epilepsy after ECT 5 times higher than without. 2/3 patients had more than one seizure.




A 65 year old man who had "successfully" undergone 12 ECT's came in for more. After the sixth caused a seven minute convulsion he was brought for a seventh 3 days later but began convulsing before the ECT could be started. The authors declare their technique to have been impeccably modern and conclude: "To our knowledge this is the first report of a seizure as a complication of modern unilateral ECT."



http://www.idiom.com/~drjohn/ectseize.html

No thank you.

bettybruises

bettybruises

San Clemente, CA
August 2008

NOV 05, 2008 06:27 PM

Varuka_Salt said:



Many of those alternative medicines do work.
Perhaps not for the reasons the practitioners think, but they often do work nonetheless.


It's called the placebo effect.



riiight, but where do you think most medicines come from?
a lot of the qualities found in plants were isolate ddown to produce medicines.

http://www.bayeraspirin.com/pain/asp_history.html

The history of aspirin for example.....

Do your research before making blanket comments and insulting others who don't share your opinions please......

Sick

Sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

NOV 05, 2008 06:28 PM

Varuka_Salt said:


Modern medicine has it's fair share of looney practices in its history as well, such as electro shock therapy, etc.



That's actually still used to treat epilepsy, and very effectively.



And also severe, treatment-resistant depression. Also very effectively, considering the tenacity of the disease.

As for alternative medicine in general and the idea that it's beneficial, or at least harmless, I encourage everyone to visit What's The Harm?

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