• news
  • FRIDAY AUGUST 8 2008 12:30 PM

Russian and Georgian Forces Clash in Ossetia

Tags: Russia, war

"Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory," Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili announced today.

Reuters reported today that the Russian military has entered into territory claimed by the Republic of Georgia - what is currently a breakaway region known as South Ossetia. Russian tanks are currently clashing with Georgian forces in South Ossetia and the Russian airforce is striking targets in Georgia proper.

Russia's decision to use force stemmed most immediately from Georgia's attack on the Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali yesterday. Conflict over spy drones, mutual sniper attacks, and artillery shelling has marred Russian-Georgian relations in the preceding weeks and months.

Russia claims that Georgia is to blame for the fighting:

Saakashvili rejected Russian assertions that the fighting was sparked by events in South Ossetia, where Moscow accuses Georgian forces of aggressive action against Russian peacekeepers and others.


Meanwhile, the Georgian president accuses Russian forces of intentionally targeting civilians and dismisses the Russian claims.

For those not familiar with politics of the south Caucasus, Georgia is an independent nation that borders Russia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Armenia. The nation is known for its excellent wines (like kindzmarauli and kvanchkara), spicy cuisine, and being the birthplace of Iosif Dzhugashvili - better known as Stalin. The landscape of Georgia is beautiful and it is home to four UNESCO cultural heritage sites. The population of Georgia is overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox and has been Christian since Roman times. It is also the home to 12 different living languages (plus Russian and Armenian) and at least 18 distinct ethnic groups.

Russian-Georgian relations date back to the early 1860s, when King Herekle asked for Russian aid (as a fellow Orthodox nation) to secure their independence against both the Ottoman Turks and the Qajar Persians who competed for dominance of the Caucasus. Russia, under Catherine the Great, repeatedly failed to honor military obligations to Herekle but due to court intrigue, the aging monarch feared for the survival of his dynasty. Consequently, he signed the Treaty of Georgievsk in 1873, making Russia the protector of the eastern half of modern Georgia. Under Paul I, Russia formally annexed eastern Georgia in 1801 and conquered the rest within 10 years. The nation remained part of the Russian empire and the Soviet Union (with the exception of a brief independence following the collapse of the Romanov dynasty) until 1991, when Georgia declared its independence.

Things were not rosy* for post-independence Georgia, however, as even the former Soviet dissident and human rights activist Zviad Gamsakhurdia ruled in an authoritarian manner (even accusing his enemies of "sabotage" and treason). After his ouster by a violent coup, the opposition forces appointed Eduard Shevardnadze as president of the nation. His rule was likewise characterized by corruption and nepotism, leading to his peaceful ouster in the Rose Revolution of 2003. Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov negotiated the resignation of Gamsakhurdia in a summit meeting with the Georgian president and the opposition (including pro-Western and American-educated current president Mikheil Saakashvili).

While political representation has taken a turn for the better in the past five years in Georgia, the country is plagued with problems. Almost half of the population lives beneath the poverty line. Corruption and crime are rampant. More importantly - two regions of Georgia broke away after the 1991 independence: South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Following Saakashvili's campaign promises to clamp down on separatism, the leader of the autonomous region of Adjara also threatened to secede, leading to another crisis. While Georgia resolved the Adjara crisis peacefully, it was defeated militarily in its campaigns in both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Georgia cannot exert military control over either region, largely due to Russian support of the separatists. Both of these conflicts led to slaughter of innocent civilians by all sides and ended in ethnic cleansing of the Georgian population in the breakaway regions.

South Ossetia continues to be a problem for Russian-Georgian relations. The UN, EU, and NATO refuse to recognize South Ossetia as an independent nation, while Russia extends visas to the population. Georgia hopes to suppress the Ossetian de facto independence and Saakashvili is under pressure from the public to do so. Meanwhile, Russia backs South Ossetia as a means of exerting power over Georgia and countering American influence in the region.

America, in fact, is deeply involved in the Russian-Georgian conflict at least in the eyes of the two players. Following George W. Bush's visit to Tbilisi in 2005, the Georgians renamed the street by their airport to "George W. Bush avenue." As a Reuters article notes, the United States has 120 soldiers in Georgia. President Saakashvili asserts that the influence of the US is even deeper, though. According to him, the latest Russian-Georgian conflict:

... is not about Georgia anymore. It's about America, its values.


He continued to say:

They made no secret. The are unhappy with our closeness with the United States, with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, with the West in general.


Meanwhile, the NY Times reports that:

Georgia is also valuable to Washington because it is an ally in the Iraq war. With 2,000 troops in Iraq, it is the third-largest contributor of troops there, after the United States and Britain.


The United States will have difficulty remaining uninvolved, especially given Georgia's immediate decision to pull these troops out of Iraq.

US Presidential candidate John McCain has called on Russia to withdraw from Georgia and asks for an emergency UN Security Council meeting (Note: one already took place 12 hours before he called for it). Some bloggers are already claiming that this event will increase McCain's rating in polls because of his hawkish stance.

*Yeah, that's a pun on Georgia's Rose Revolution...

 

Previous

PAGE: 

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

 ... 8

Next

Comments
Adroitbeing

Adroitbeing

I'm lost
September 2003

AUG 11, 2008 04:25 PM

^ which seems to bring us to the issue - the continued test of wills.

It seems unlikely that this is simply about the 250km of pipeline servicing Caspian oil. One obvious reason for the construction of the pipeline was an effort on the part of west-centric governments (including US sponsorship) to reduce Russia's influence in the area. Interpret that as you may, Russia sees it as US cold war efforts to assert US policy and all it means over Russia. So, Russia is pissed.

Toss in blowhard Georgia's President Mikheil Saakashvili; a self-described enthusiastic proponent of the strategy to reduce Russia's influence, and you have the beginnings of what might be serious friction. Then of course, Saakashvili has been attempting to play the US by demonstrating support for US principals including the invasion of Iraq while simultaneously looking like your average dictator; clamping down on dissent and efforts by parts of his country to seek independence.

So Saakashvili overplayed his hand because he thought the US would support his efforts to arrogantly poke the bear through the unlocked cage. Not exactly the finesse everyone hoped for and now he seems surprised to have inherited a lap full of Soviet tanks.

More than 2 years ago Putin warned Saakashvili saying, "These people think that under the protection of their foreign sponsors they can feel comfortable and secure," "Is it really so?"

Welcome to the big league Saakashvili, where bluffs are called and the convenience of friendships revealed.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

AUG 11, 2008 04:28 PM

Ascanius said:

motorfirebox said:

Ascanius said:

DannyDMc said:

Ascanius said:

Colinism said:
Chechnya was more than heavy chest pounding.



Chechnya is not a sovereign nation.



The Chechnyans might disagree with that statement



Doesn't make it geopolitically incorrect.


are you aware of why Chechnya is not a sovereign nation?



Yes, but do you see the difference, diplomatically, in preventing Chechnya from breaking away, and invading a country that has been independent for 17 years and is a member of the UN, the WTO, and an active candidate for membership in NATO?


you make it sound as if Chechnya never achieved any level of independence. i see at least as many similarities to Dagestan as to Iraq.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

AUG 11, 2008 04:33 PM

Ascanius said:

motorfirebox said:

Ascanius said:

DannyDMc said:

Ascanius said:

Colinism said:
Chechnya was more than heavy chest pounding.



Chechnya is not a sovereign nation.



The Chechnyans might disagree with that statement



Doesn't make it geopolitically incorrect.


are you aware of why Chechnya is not a sovereign nation?



Yes, but do you see the difference, diplomatically, in preventing Chechnya from breaking away, and invading a country that has been independent for 17 years and is a member of the UN, the WTO, and an active candidate for membership in NATO?



Russia ruled GA for 200 years they see this as a chance to regain some lost ground and to show their former republics that they are still in charge in that sphere. This has less to do with Iraq and far more to do with the West pushing itself up against the borders of Russia, we would not allow the Russians to do this nor the Chinese why would we expect them to allow us to get away with it?

Ascanius

Ascanius

USA
October 2006

AUG 11, 2008 04:36 PM

motorfirebox said:
you make it sound as if Chechnya never achieved any level of independence. i see at least as many similarities to Dagestan as to Iraq.



I think Adroitbeing is probably wise in trying to get this back on topic, but I will say that I think a critical difference is that Chechnya never achieved widespread diplomatic recognition. I think that's a pretty critical difference when comparing the invasion of Georgia to the invasions of Chechnya and Dagestan in light of the geopolitical climate set by the Iraq War.

dholokov

dholokov

Toronto, ON
April 2003

AUG 11, 2008 04:39 PM

"My president committed troops to an unjstified war in hopes of currying favour with the world's remaining superpower, and all I got was this stupid Russian airstrike"

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

AUG 11, 2008 04:46 PM

dholokov said:
"My president committed troops to an unjstified war in hopes of currying favour with the world's remaining superpower, and all I got was this stupid Russian airstrike"



Pretty much.

Fred Kaplan over at Slate.com has some insightful words about Georgia:

Regardless of what happens next, it is worth asking what the Bush people were thinking when they egged on Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgia's young, Western-educated president, to apply for NATO membership, send 2,000 of his troops to Iraq as a full-fledged U.S. ally, and receive tactical training and weapons from our military. Did they really think Putin would sit by and see another border state (and former province of the Russian empire) slip away to the West? If they thought that Putin might not, what did they plan to do about it, and how firmly did they warn Saakashvili not to get too brash or provoke an outburst?

It's heartbreaking, but even more infuriating, to read so many Georgians quoted in the New York Times -- officials, soldiers, and citizens -- wondering when the United States is coming to their rescue. It's infuriating because it's clear that Bush did everything to encourage them to believe that he would. When Bush (properly) pushed for Kosovo's independence from Serbia, Putin warned that he would do the same for pro-Russian secessionists elsewhere, by which he could only have meant Georgia's separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Putin had taken drastic steps in earlier disputes over those regions -- for instance, embargoing all trade with Georgia -- with an implicit threat that he could inflict far greater punishment. Yet Bush continued to entice Saakashvili with weapons, training, and talk of entry into NATO. Of course the Georgians believed that if they got into a firefight with Russia, the Americans would bail them out.

Bush pressed the other NATO powers to place Georgia's application for membership on the fast track. The Europeans rejected the idea, understanding the geo-strategic implications of pushing NATO's boundaries right up to Russia's border. If the Europeans had let Bush have his way, we would now be obligated by treaty to send troops in Georgia's defense. That is to say, we would now be in a shooting war with the Russians. Those who might oppose entering such a war would be accused of "weakening our credibility" and "destroying the unity of the Western alliance."

This is where the heartless bastard part of the argument comes in: Is Georgia's continued control of Abkhazia and South Ossetia really worth war with Russia? Is its continued independence from Moscow's domination, if it comes to that, worth our going to war?


He goes on, and has a lot more really great questions and insight. It's definitely worth a read.

Adroitbeing

Adroitbeing

I'm lost
September 2003

AUG 11, 2008 04:53 PM

bean said:
He goes on, and has a lot more really great questions and insight. It's definitely worth a read.



And it's worth noting that the US used US military transport planes to rush Georgian troops out of Iraq and back to Georgia to face off with the Russians. Bush may have been heard to say..."we're right behind you kid."

atomicant

atomicant

Portland, OR
June 2003

AUG 11, 2008 05:28 PM

Adroitbeing said:

bean said:
He goes on, and has a lot more really great questions and insight. It's definitely worth a read.



And it's worth noting that the US used US military transport planes to rush Georgian troops out of Iraq and back to Georgia to face off with the Russians. Bush may have been heard to say..."we're right behind you kid."



too little, too late.

god, i hate bush.

RedBstrd

RedBstrd

Riverside, CA
April 2004

AUG 11, 2008 06:24 PM

atomicant said:
i'm curious what you think russia's real intentions in this conflict are, redbstrd? because you are waaaaaay more knowledgeable about this area than i, and i am pretty damn interested.



Sorry about the delay in responding, I had a day of celebrating the end of my out-of-state studies, followed by traveling home, and there was no way my girl was going to let me get on the internet when I got back without giving her attention...

As far as Russia's intentions here, I think that they are pushing for Russian dominance (though not outright annexation) of the south Caucasus. They are deeply troubled by the pro-Western orientation of a number of former Soviet states, such as Georgia, the Ukraine, and even Mongolia. Given the chaotic nature of American-Russian intentions, I think that Russia wants to flex its muscles and let its neighbors know that adopting an anti-Russian and pro-Western stance is dangerous.

I also think that Russia is trying to show the public and the international community that it can still win wars (Afghanistan had the same effect on the Russian psyche that Vietnam had on the American public). Moreover, showing that they can win wars in the Caucasus is even more important because it can intimidate Russia's opponents in places like Chechnya as well. I don't think that Russia is pursuing very rational goals but this seems to be motivated by the same concerns that has repeatedly caused Putin to engage in saber-rattling towards the West and economic belligerence towards countries like the Ukraine.

atomicant

atomicant

Portland, OR
June 2003

AUG 11, 2008 06:29 PM

awesome. thanks again for the great article.

RedBstrd

RedBstrd

Riverside, CA
April 2004

AUG 11, 2008 06:37 PM

Sick said:
This is actually a really informative article. I'm impressed. That doesn't happen often, does it?

Does anyone know South Ossetia's strategic value to Russia? Buffer against the West? Foothold on the southern side of the Caucuses?



Thank you.

I suspect that Russia isn't motivated by strategic concerns too much. I think that they are interested in bolstering their image as a first-rate military power that the international community has to respect and fear. Given American efforts to create missile shield defenses in Eastern Europe, I think that Russia has been looking for an excuse to show off their capability in conventional warfare.

South Ossetia has only minor strategic value as a buffer against the West because it only borders Turkey, who is a NATO member but not really a viable target for Russian intimidation. The United States is interested in friendly relations with Georgia, so Russia may view a Russian-dominated Georgia as a removal of a potential threat.

Historically, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan have been points of conflict for Russia and various Middle Eastern powers (Turkey and Iran) in particular, but this only seems relevant if Russia actually wants to annex Georgia. I don't think that they want to do so.

RedBstrd

RedBstrd

Riverside, CA
April 2004

AUG 11, 2008 06:45 PM

SergeantPsycho said:
The Russians have sold a lot of weapons to Iran, and I read somewhere they were helping out Iraq before we invaded. Perhaps we should show them that turn about is fair play, and loan the Georgians the use of our A-10s.



This idea has a few problems. First, we can't lend Georgia planes without training them to use them. Any Russian-Georgian war will be over by then. Second, Georgia can't win this war. They simply don't have the military force to do so. Russia has 20 times the number of troops as Georgia (150,000 versus over 3,000,000). Third, an airforce is only as good as the airfields/aircraft carriers on which it can land. Georgia is simply not capable of defending their airstrips from the Russian armed forces.

If we were to lend/sell/give planes to Georgia, we would only be handing Russia a propaganda victory when the Russian military captured or destroyed them.

Note: Russia sold a lot of arms to Iraq before Iraq was an enemy to America. They continued to sell some gear to Iraq after the Gulf War, but that was not politically motivated. The equipment of the Russian military was available to whomever had the money.

RedBstrd

RedBstrd

Riverside, CA
April 2004

AUG 11, 2008 06:46 PM

SergeantPsycho said:

crispy said:

wildswan said:

SergeantPsycho said:
The Russians have sold a lot of weapons to Iran, and I read somewhere they were helping out Iraq before we invaded. Perhaps we should show them that turn about is fair play, and loan the Georgians the use of our A-10s.


You are quite clearly not a military strategist.


Hey ... they don't make just anyone a sergeant, you know.
So, he's got that going for him.



The Sergeant part is just a screen name. I'm not currently nor have I ever been, a member of the Military, Police, or Fire Fighting services. Now, as me being a military strategist, I seem to recall a long drawn out argument contradicting FTR's assert that Al-Sadr had won over the Iraqi goverment. So, where's Al-Sadr now? Oh yeah, he's still in Iran. But let's focus on the present shall we? In my estimation, Russia is using this whole South Osseta thing as a pre-text for taking over the BTC Gas pipeline. It's no secret that Russia loves meddling in the affairs of it's neighbors (anyone here with a memory that last longer than the latest news cycle will remember the poisoning of Victory Yushenko during the Ukranian elections in September 2004), and they've also resorted to fuel embargos of some of the other Eastern European countries. So yeah, I think Russia invading Georgia and getting it's shit ruined would help the situation a lot.



You are right about the Ukrainian issue, but probably not correct about the pipeline in the Caucasus. Oil and natural gases are resources that Russia already has, not resources they are trying to seize.

Russia, of course, doesn't want any pipelines that reduce Russia's ability to control the exportation of oil from Central Asia. Still, capturing the pipeline isn't their goal. Having a dependent Georgian state that would follow Russian policy on oil/gas prices and output is probably a more realistic goal.

atomicant

atomicant

Portland, OR
June 2003

AUG 11, 2008 06:56 PM

RedBstrd said:

SergeantPsycho said:
The Russians have sold a lot of weapons to Iran, and I read somewhere they were helping out Iraq before we invaded. Perhaps we should show them that turn about is fair play, and loan the Georgians the use of our A-10s.



This idea has a few problems. First, we can't lend Georgia planes without training them to use them. Any Russian-Georgian war will be over by then. Second, Georgia can't win this war. They simply don't have the military force to do so. Russia has 20 times the number of troops as Georgia (150,000 versus over 3,000,000). Third, an airforce is only as good as the airfields/aircraft carriers on which it can land. Georgia is simply not capable of defending their airstrips from the Russian armed forces.



this was my exact line of thinking. even though an a-10 is far from a sophisticated next-generation fighter jet (in all honesty, it's pretty much a flying tank), 'loaning' them out would be pretty much the same as crashing them into a mountain.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

AUG 11, 2008 10:21 PM

er, regarding the feasibility of upgrading the Georgian Air Force, that's exactly what we've been doing--NATO, and specifically the US, has been working to modernize the GAF for some time, now. i don't know if just handing them some A-10s is workable in terms of logistics, but as far as pilots go, the Georgians are already experienced with the Su-25, which is basically the Soviet version of the A-10--they're even the same age; the A-10 was first fielded only two years after the Su-25. at this point, admittedly, it'd be throwing away good planes, since the Georgians are rapidly running out of airfields, but if we could get Georgia some A-10s and a place to launch them from, they could probably integrate them into their air force in short order.

the War Nerd has an interesting perspective on the topic of who actually invaded who. not many people are paying attention to the fact that the first real military action was taken by Georgia, on 8 Aug, when they captured Tskhinvali. now, the general consensus on this point has been that Georgia was perfectly within its rights to do so, since Tskhinvali is, technically, just a city in a Georgian province. but that isn't how South Ossetia sees it, and it's actually not how Russia sees it, either: officially, Russia agreed that South Ossetia was a part of Georgia (or, at least, that it wasn't a part of Russia), but unofficially, Russia ran the proto-nation. their troops, their aid money, their puppets ruiling Tskhinvali (fuck, that's hard to spell). which means that when Georgia captured Tskhinvali, they were effectively capturing Russian territory.

and the strong parallels between South Ossetia and Chechnya form another interesting facet. think about it: both, in their prime, were semi-autonomous regions which broke away from their more powerful parent nations, only to later be retaken through military force prompted (supposedly) by their own insurgency.

regardless, whether you view South Ossetia as a spunky loner struggling for freedom or a runaway province that needed to be brought back into line, it's hard to deny that Georgia fired the first shot. they attacked Tskhinvali, which contained a large contingent of Russian troops and a buttload of Russian civilians. the Russian response is certainly disproportionate, but shit--any former Soviet bloc nation that doesn't make at least one land grab per decade gets it membership revoked. the Georgians really should have seen this coming.

Previous

PAGE: 

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

 ... 8

Next