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  • FRIDAY AUGUST 8 2008 12:30 PM

Russian and Georgian Forces Clash in Ossetia

Tags: Russia, war

"Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory," Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili announced today.

Reuters reported today that the Russian military has entered into territory claimed by the Republic of Georgia - what is currently a breakaway region known as South Ossetia. Russian tanks are currently clashing with Georgian forces in South Ossetia and the Russian airforce is striking targets in Georgia proper.

Russia's decision to use force stemmed most immediately from Georgia's attack on the Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali yesterday. Conflict over spy drones, mutual sniper attacks, and artillery shelling has marred Russian-Georgian relations in the preceding weeks and months.

Russia claims that Georgia is to blame for the fighting:

Saakashvili rejected Russian assertions that the fighting was sparked by events in South Ossetia, where Moscow accuses Georgian forces of aggressive action against Russian peacekeepers and others.


Meanwhile, the Georgian president accuses Russian forces of intentionally targeting civilians and dismisses the Russian claims.

For those not familiar with politics of the south Caucasus, Georgia is an independent nation that borders Russia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Armenia. The nation is known for its excellent wines (like kindzmarauli and kvanchkara), spicy cuisine, and being the birthplace of Iosif Dzhugashvili - better known as Stalin. The landscape of Georgia is beautiful and it is home to four UNESCO cultural heritage sites. The population of Georgia is overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox and has been Christian since Roman times. It is also the home to 12 different living languages (plus Russian and Armenian) and at least 18 distinct ethnic groups.

Russian-Georgian relations date back to the early 1860s, when King Herekle asked for Russian aid (as a fellow Orthodox nation) to secure their independence against both the Ottoman Turks and the Qajar Persians who competed for dominance of the Caucasus. Russia, under Catherine the Great, repeatedly failed to honor military obligations to Herekle but due to court intrigue, the aging monarch feared for the survival of his dynasty. Consequently, he signed the Treaty of Georgievsk in 1873, making Russia the protector of the eastern half of modern Georgia. Under Paul I, Russia formally annexed eastern Georgia in 1801 and conquered the rest within 10 years. The nation remained part of the Russian empire and the Soviet Union (with the exception of a brief independence following the collapse of the Romanov dynasty) until 1991, when Georgia declared its independence.

Things were not rosy* for post-independence Georgia, however, as even the former Soviet dissident and human rights activist Zviad Gamsakhurdia ruled in an authoritarian manner (even accusing his enemies of "sabotage" and treason). After his ouster by a violent coup, the opposition forces appointed Eduard Shevardnadze as president of the nation. His rule was likewise characterized by corruption and nepotism, leading to his peaceful ouster in the Rose Revolution of 2003. Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov negotiated the resignation of Gamsakhurdia in a summit meeting with the Georgian president and the opposition (including pro-Western and American-educated current president Mikheil Saakashvili).

While political representation has taken a turn for the better in the past five years in Georgia, the country is plagued with problems. Almost half of the population lives beneath the poverty line. Corruption and crime are rampant. More importantly - two regions of Georgia broke away after the 1991 independence: South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Following Saakashvili's campaign promises to clamp down on separatism, the leader of the autonomous region of Adjara also threatened to secede, leading to another crisis. While Georgia resolved the Adjara crisis peacefully, it was defeated militarily in its campaigns in both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Georgia cannot exert military control over either region, largely due to Russian support of the separatists. Both of these conflicts led to slaughter of innocent civilians by all sides and ended in ethnic cleansing of the Georgian population in the breakaway regions.

South Ossetia continues to be a problem for Russian-Georgian relations. The UN, EU, and NATO refuse to recognize South Ossetia as an independent nation, while Russia extends visas to the population. Georgia hopes to suppress the Ossetian de facto independence and Saakashvili is under pressure from the public to do so. Meanwhile, Russia backs South Ossetia as a means of exerting power over Georgia and countering American influence in the region.

America, in fact, is deeply involved in the Russian-Georgian conflict at least in the eyes of the two players. Following George W. Bush's visit to Tbilisi in 2005, the Georgians renamed the street by their airport to "George W. Bush avenue." As a Reuters article notes, the United States has 120 soldiers in Georgia. President Saakashvili asserts that the influence of the US is even deeper, though. According to him, the latest Russian-Georgian conflict:

... is not about Georgia anymore. It's about America, its values.


He continued to say:

They made no secret. The are unhappy with our closeness with the United States, with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, with the West in general.


Meanwhile, the NY Times reports that:

Georgia is also valuable to Washington because it is an ally in the Iraq war. With 2,000 troops in Iraq, it is the third-largest contributor of troops there, after the United States and Britain.


The United States will have difficulty remaining uninvolved, especially given Georgia's immediate decision to pull these troops out of Iraq.

US Presidential candidate John McCain has called on Russia to withdraw from Georgia and asks for an emergency UN Security Council meeting (Note: one already took place 12 hours before he called for it). Some bloggers are already claiming that this event will increase McCain's rating in polls because of his hawkish stance.

*Yeah, that's a pun on Georgia's Rose Revolution...

 

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Comments
SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

AUG 10, 2008 03:26 AM

bean said:

SergeantPsycho said:
In my estimation, Russia is using this whole South Osseta thing as a pre-text for taking over the BTC Gas pipeline. It's no secret that Russia loves meddling in the affairs of it's neighbors (anyone here with a memory that last longer than the latest news cycle will remember the poisoning of Victory Yushenko during the Ukranian elections in September 2004), and they've also resorted to fuel embargos of some of the other Eastern European countries


You know, I was going to post something a lot like this earlier today before I got sidetracked. I don't think it's entirely about the BTC pipeline, but I think everything leading up to the conflict (including Georgia's interest in joining NATO) is tied to the pipeline.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard you make some observation about a world political, economic, or military matter that wasn't mired in mistakes, misjudgments, idiotic statements, or logical fallacies, but then you had to go and say:.

So yeah, I think Russia invading Georgia and getting it's shit ruined would help the situation a lot.

...to which I can only respond: surreal



Just remember, there's a reason why Finland wasn't part of the Soviet Bloc.

Mark_plus_Beer

Mark_plus_Beer

United Kingdom
August 2005

AUG 10, 2008 04:20 AM

Im sure one of the Splinter Cell games started with this storyline

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

AUG 10, 2008 04:32 AM

Mark_plus_Beer said:
Im sure one of the Splinter Cell games started with this storyline



Indeed, this whole thing is remind me of Red Storm Rising. Heh.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

AUG 10, 2008 09:16 AM

Right now I am sure Tom Clancy is gearing up to sue both Russia and Georgia for stealing the plot of his latest book.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

AUG 10, 2008 10:51 AM

SergeantPsycho said:

bean said:

SergeantPsycho said:
In my estimation, Russia is using this whole South Osseta thing as a pre-text for taking over the BTC Gas pipeline. It's no secret that Russia loves meddling in the affairs of it's neighbors (anyone here with a memory that last longer than the latest news cycle will remember the poisoning of Victory Yushenko during the Ukranian elections in September 2004), and they've also resorted to fuel embargos of some of the other Eastern European countries


You know, I was going to post something a lot like this earlier today before I got sidetracked. I don't think it's entirely about the BTC pipeline, but I think everything leading up to the conflict (including Georgia's interest in joining NATO) is tied to the pipeline.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard you make some observation about a world political, economic, or military matter that wasn't mired in mistakes, misjudgments, idiotic statements, or logical fallacies, but then you had to go and say:.

So yeah, I think Russia invading Georgia and getting it's shit ruined would help the situation a lot.

...to which I can only respond: surreal



Just remember, there's a reason why Finland wasn't part of the Soviet Bloc.


Do I need to list for you the reasons that example is not applicable to this situation?

atomicant

atomicant

Portland, OR
June 2003

AUG 10, 2008 11:05 AM

tilting at windmills, bean...

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

AUG 10, 2008 03:16 PM


http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/10/olympic.embrace/index.html

Russia's Natalia Paderina and Georgia's Nino Salukvadze hugged after winning Olympic silver and bronze medals, respectively, in the women's 10-meter air pistol competition.

The rivals kissed each other on the cheek after standing on the medal podium with China's Guo Wenjun, who won the gold medal in the event.

Waving flower bouquets high, the women smiled broadly at the audience.

"If the world were to draw any lessons from what I did, there would never be any wars," Salukvadze, 39, said afterward, according to media reports. The reports described the two as friends.

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Canada
November 2002

AUG 10, 2008 03:18 PM

bean said:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/10/olympic.embrace/index.html

Russia's Natalia Paderina and Georgia's Nino Salukvadze hugged after winning Olympic silver and bronze medals, respectively, in the women's 10-meter air pistol competition.

The rivals kissed each other on the cheek after standing on the medal podium with China's Guo Wenjun, who won the gold medal in the event.

Waving flower bouquets high, the women smiled broadly at the audience.

"If the world were to draw any lessons from what I did, there would never be any wars," Salukvadze, 39, said afterward, according to media reports. The reports described the two as friends.



smile

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

AUG 10, 2008 05:49 PM

Of course, part of the reason that Russia is prepared to risk this is that the USA (and its poodle) has made aggressive war on a sovereign nation, and lied about it to everyone.
What a surprise that other countries now feel they can do the same thing.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

AUG 10, 2008 07:08 PM

SockPuppet said:
Of course, part of the reason that Russia is prepared to risk this is that the USA (and its poodle) has made aggressive war on a sovereign nation, and lied about it to everyone.
What a surprise that other countries now feel they can do the same thing.



History began with Bush for you, didn't it?

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

USA
OLD SKOOL

AUG 10, 2008 07:31 PM

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:
Of course, part of the reason that Russia is prepared to risk this is that the USA (and its poodle) has made aggressive war on a sovereign nation, and lied about it to everyone.
What a surprise that other countries now feel they can do the same thing.



History began with Bush for you, didn't it?



Yeah, nations never take recent precedents into account when acting aggressively.

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

AUG 11, 2008 03:25 AM

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:
Of course, part of the reason that Russia is prepared to risk this is that the USA (and its poodle) has made aggressive war on a sovereign nation, and lied about it to everyone.
What a surprise that other countries now feel they can do the same thing.



History began with Bush for you, didn't it?



He's got a point, stockula. Here's some other invasions that used the Bush invasion of Iraq as a precendent:

- Hannible invading Roman pennisula from the North by crossing the alps

- The Viking invasions of the British Isles

- The Invasion of the Golden Horde

- The Napoleanic Wars

I could go on, but the point is, we know who's to blame for all of these:
President George W. Bush.

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005
Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

AUG 11, 2008 09:37 AM

BlastProcessing said:

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:
Of course, part of the reason that Russia is prepared to risk this is that the USA (and its poodle) has made aggressive war on a sovereign nation, and lied about it to everyone.
What a surprise that other countries now feel they can do the same thing.



History began with Bush for you, didn't it?



Yeah, nations never take recent precedents into account when acting aggressively.



The Iraq war was not a recent precedent if your trying to imply that the Russians would never have gone in without Iraq having happened first. They have been trying to get their old republics back under their control for years now there is nothing shocking about what is happening now.

Ascanius

Ascanius

USA
October 2006

AUG 11, 2008 10:13 AM

Colinism said:

BlastProcessing said:

stockula said:

SockPuppet said:
Of course, part of the reason that Russia is prepared to risk this is that the USA (and its poodle) has made aggressive war on a sovereign nation, and lied about it to everyone.
What a surprise that other countries now feel they can do the same thing.



History began with Bush for you, didn't it?



Yeah, nations never take recent precedents into account when acting aggressively.



The Iraq war was not a recent precedent if your trying to imply that the Russians would never have gone in without Iraq having happened first. They have been trying to get their old republics back under their control for years now there is nothing shocking about what is happening now.



You're proving SockPuppet's point. They've been trying to "get their old republics back" for years but have never done much more than some heavy duty chest pounding. Now, after we invade Iraq under false pretenses they invade Georgia under false pretenses, and you don't think that's significant?

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