Too bad the Republicans politicians didn't remember why people voted Republican in the first place.

Fiscal responsibility

smaller, more transparent government, including

no nation-building

It took the Democrats 50 years to fuck things up so badly that the voters routed them in 1994; it took the Republicans only 12 (14 if you're being generous).

Your party had a virtually blank check for a decade and look how they fucked up our country. It'll take decades to undo the damage done by this administration, both here and abroad.

Good bye and good riddance to this pack of fools.

One other thing, to everyone who is looking down their nose at West Virginians:

Most of these people have been in grinding poverty for a long time, and are fearful of change because change has not brought them much good so far. A lot of them have worked very hard at pretty brutal jobs (like coal mining) to get what little they may have.

Derision and stereotypes aren't going to help them, but better education and jobs will. Let's try not to reinforce their stereotypes of us, please.

Just like the selection of the Bush regime was a rejection of the Clinton legacy. What are you trying to say?

Try the word "progressives" versus moderate or liberal - it probably characterizes the current and ever evolving Democratic Party and you can use the term to convince your friends that you have evolved and become modern.

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest there are actually more important reasons people are abandoning the Republican party:

- People have come to realize that a "dedication" to "free markets" is not the same as a dedication to freedom or a free people. Our founders got it right, the Republicans have fucked it up, rewarding the upper 1% of American while pandering to the balance.

- You can't give the Republicans any credit for smaller government because it hasn't happened. More importantly, the platform has it wrong; smaller government does not necessarily mean better government and the Republicans have demonstrated that they have no idea how to create better government

- You can't ignore the war in Iraq. Republicans continually confuse continuing the war with keeping the peace. Wake up - they are not the same and many of us believe the progressives have this figured out.

And pray tell, why is that exactly?

But does that really excuse them from educating themselves at a local library or making a simple Google search to discover the difference between Saddam Hussein and Barack Hussein Obama?

Way to miss the point.

Fear of change, to me, is an immature concept. I apologise.

If those people in WV I saw on the videos are representative of the ignorance we're talking about, how come they didn't just come out and say what they meant? They danced all around the "N" word, yet they wouldn't say it on camera.

This just shows that on some level they know they're wrong. They know it, we know it. But hey, we'll just refer to them as "blue collar working types" when everyone knows the term is redneck. So while it's truly reasonable to show empathy, their conditions still don't warrant an excuse.

Hopefully, the younger generation, with it's (improved) access to the information age, will be able to break out of this rut.

Which videos?

I saw this series on PBS about poverty stricken WVians (I believe it was WV), and the situation is pretty damn bleak. Even with really small class sizes they have a hard time getting everyone to graduate from high school. Some families need their kids to work in order to make ends meet, which means they don't go to school. They love Jesus, which is nothing wrong in and of itself, but their attitudes towards sex are um, well, lets just say they get pregnant young. But mostly it's about poverty. A lot of these places used to see a lot of economic activity in the forms of mines and then it either slowed so it only sustains a portion of the community, it moved elsewhere, or just ceased all together.

The grim fact is that without a proper economic base, all these other issues are moot. You might have a few that just don't give up and somehow move on, but they're the exception not the rule. Anyway... I really only wanted to know what videos you were talking about.

Oh yeah, in terms of using offensive words, don't think for a second they don't use them 'cause they know they're wrong. They don't use them because they know other people (those who might watch the video) think they're wrong. Trust me on that one. If they thought it was wrong, there'd be no dancing. But I'm curious to see what you're referring to.

The less Republicans in office. the better.

I would say in some degree (a small one), yes it does excuse them. If you are raised in a family where you are only fed stereotypes and false views, it can be difficult to think for yourself. Some people never even consider that they aren't already thinking for themselves. It often takes stimulation from an outside source, a teacher or a helpful person that the individual can relate to for them to see beyond the narrow limits placed before them.

I always fall back on Socrates's theory that no person does what they think is bad, only what they think is right and good. If someone has a false view of what is good, then it can often be like a knot that needs to be unraveled in the proper way, and this takes care and proper knowledge of how to go about the unraveling.

The solution for ignorance is not saying "They should know better and just get out there and figure it all out for themselves." It takes a proper guidance for a person to be able to learn to think for themselves, and if we can find a way to fix the poverty and the education, I think the rest will follow more easily, but then the rest WILL be up to the individual. A proper environment can only do so much before the responsibility falls upon each person to trust what is right in front of them.

There's this one from the other thread.





And others which are floating around, but you get the idea.

Yeah, I found them. Thanks for the heads up. I feel stupid. They were fairly obvious.

Some things bean and Nolan_Void have said in this thread are things I just didn't know about. Thanks, gentlemen!