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Being Straight Just Isn't Enough Anymore

SATURDAY APRIL 26 2008 1:30 PM

Submitted by JekyllAndHyde. Edited By crispy.

TAGS: Iraq, atheism, discrimination, US Army

If God said, "Thou shalt not kill," how can belief in God be a prerequisite for military service?

With the shitstorm in Iraq resulting in (among other things) personnel deficiencies in the United States military, one would think the Army would be attempting to keep the soldiers they already have. However, a soldier who enlisted to serve his country and fight terrorism is claiming he has suffered discrimination; not because he is gay, but because he is an atheist.

Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.

But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

While this is not official military policy, it seems to me that anyone who is actually ready and willing to go over to Iraq should be welcome to do so, regardless of their beliefs or sexual orientation. Then again, I'm naïve enough to still attempt to apply logic to anything involving this war.

Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.

Hall, 23, was raised in a Protestant family in North Carolina and dropped out of school. It wasn't until he joined the Army that he began questioning religion, eventually deciding he couldn't follow any faith.

But he feared how that would look to other soldiers.

"I was ashamed to say that I was an atheist," Hall said.

It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,"' Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

Great, let's take one more step toward making this a religious crusade. Should we just go ahead and make it a requirement for military service that you fuck the other gender, and view your enemies as enemies of the one true Lord who hates fags and abortionists and liberals?

Hall said he had had enough but feared he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Weinstein is the foundation's president and a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate. He had previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on students at the academy, though that case was dismissed. He calls Hall a hero.

"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."

Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed on September 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kansas. Other soldiers learned of it and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.

The Army told him it couldn't protect him and sent him back to Fort Riley. He resumed duties with a military police battalion. He believes his promotion to sergeant has been blocked because of his lawsuit, but he is a team leader responsible for two junior enlisted soldiers.

I'll say right now that I usually don't have the balls to tell someone to shut up in a theater either, much less sign up for military service. On one hand, if a guy's in Iraq, having to endure harrassment from other soldiers seems like it wouldn't be that big of a concern next to worrying about IEDs. On the other hand, the Army's comment about not being able to "protect him" should make anyone nervous. If a soldier can't trust his compatriots in a war zone, there's a problem.

Lt. Col. David Shurtleff, a Fort Riley chaplain, declined to discuss Hall's case but said chaplains accommodate all faiths as best they can. In most cases, religious issues can be worked out without jeopardizing military operations.

"When you're in Afghanistan and an IED blows up a Humvee, they aren't asking about a wounded soldier's faith," Shurtleff said.

And yet

Hall said he enjoys being a team leader but has been told that having faith would make him a better leader.

"I will take care of my soldiers. Nowhere does it say I have to pray with my soldiers, but I do have to make sure my soldiers' religious needs are met," he said.

"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."

Seeing as how I'm safely tucked at home in Texas and not patrolling the streets of Iraq, it's not really my place to criticize the military, but, my aforementioned naïveté demands me to question how they could possibly see driving even more qualified soldiers away as a positive thing. Especially when the doors are opening wider to allow more convicted felons to enlist.

Personally, I do believe in God, but it's idiocy like this that has made me hesitant to say that out loud.

This is the Army now: you can be be a rapist and it's fine as long as you raped the other gender; you can be a religious extremist but not an atheist.

And we wonder why enrollments are down and we're losing the war....

216 Comments

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marslove

Japan

May 2004

APR 26, 2008 09:48 PM

SockPuppet said:
Mmm hm. The USA is engaged in a war on Muslim soil, which the other side is trying to paint as a jihad against Christian crusaders. Meanwhile, US military culture pushes for Christian belief to be mandatory.
Yeah, that'll work.

Genius analysis! I couldn't express my same feelings any better!

marslove

Japan

May 2004

APR 26, 2008 10:09 PM

DannyDMc said:

coyotemike said:
I actually had one of my students tell me in a debate "You don't believe in god, so your opinion doesn't matter."

Lovely.

Yup, I had the same sort of thing happen to me.

ANYWAY

Since I did not go to the local church, and actively attempted to NOT discuss religion while teaching, save for criticizing those students who insulted other religions, I was quickly branded with the term "atheist" by my students and others in the village, and I was harassed about it on more than one occasion.

Perfect example of the fact that this story is not about religion at all, but instead about being part of the "in-group." This is about social psychology, not religion. Maybe this soldier is a total asshole, and everyone else wants him out...maybe for good reason, i don't know...but, from the limited facts I know, that seems more likely than "religious discrimination" towards him. For background purposes only, I am an atheist. No one has ever cared.

I think Woody Allen put it best about his feelings toward bad reviews. He said --something like--"No one really cares what I do. The review could be good. It could be bad. Most people are REALLY concerned about whether or not a malignancy is shown on their X-rays".

I feel this soldier should've taken the same approach. (But I am not in the Army, so I don't really know.)

scylis

Anchorage, AK

November 2004

APR 26, 2008 10:49 PM

some people tend to think that if there's no reward for good behavior, then there's no reason to be good; this is a stance taken by the more pious. others, namely the more zealous, tend to think that if there's no punishment for being bad, then there's no reason to refrain from being bad. i cannot stomach either.

i can't understand how so very many people cannot fathom the idea that being a full-out, steadfast atheist can easily make life seem more precious. there is no "kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out" train of thought found in being an atheist, for example.

DannyFunwrecker said:
If he's a senior 4 like this article says, and not some college 4 punk ass, he's been in a minute and knows how things work. This guy didn't use ANY of his support structure or chain of command to straighten things out, instead he went straight to some outside source that's going to turn this whole thing into a shit storm. If this is how homeboy handles things in terms of his career I guarantee it's not his religious beliefs the dudes in his unit have a problem with.

the article leads me to believe that none of his support structure or superiors were willing to help, or, quite possibly, were/are part of the problems he's having.

one usually doesn't have to make overtures or complaints to be able to tell how those people one deals with regularly will respond when it comes to something as large a part of people's lives as religion.

Admiral_Pants

Austin, TX

May 2004

APR 27, 2008 12:35 AM

motorfirebox said:
huh. i dunno, maybe he had the bad luck to get assigned to some kind of crazy god-squad unit, or maybe i had the good like to get assigned to units that were exceptionally laid-back wrt religion, but i never ran into anything like this.

ps, 'felon' has one l!

Ditto. I worship Our Father of No Religious Preference myself, and I never caught any shit for it. Hell, I even went out drinking with the chaplain (a Catholic priest) from to time.

Chainlink

Dickeyville, WI

August 2005

APR 27, 2008 10:24 AM

In 1987, when he was still Vice President, George H.W. Bush was asked by a reporter at a news conference

" Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"

His response :

No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

I'd just like to point out that this is not new.
If you don't think that mentality has been passed down to this current administration and that there is widespread government discrimination against Atheists, I really think you are sorely mistaken.

On December 23, 1990, in Chicago, Illinois Mr. Robert Sherman met with Ed Derwinski, the secretary of the Department of Veteran's Affairs, to discuss exclusion of American Atheists from veteran's groups which have been chartered by the United States Congress. Mr. Derwinski said he would do "absolutely nothing" about the discrimination. On January 3, Mr. Sherman crossed paths with Ed Derwinski again at the Illinois inaugurations. He asked Mr. Derwinski, at that time, what American Atheists could do to have the Bush administration take an interest in the problem of discrimination against American Atheist veterans. Mr. Derwinski's response was:

"What you should do for me is what you should do for everybody: Believe in God. Get off our backs."

Complete story Here at Positive Atheism.

And I wish Mr Hall the best of luck with his suit. I have little doubt that it is not unfounded.

ZPO

Olympia, WA

July 2004

APR 27, 2008 10:42 AM

I'd be interested in a little more background info. The story seems specious and reaching to me. I know the alternative faith leader on Camp Victory pretty well. He's gotten a couple rare instances of flack, but most of the chaplains are supportive. If anything, the typical soldier is ignorant of what being a pagan means rather than hostile.

Chainlink

Dickeyville, WI

August 2005

APR 27, 2008 11:06 AM

ZPO said:
I'd be interested in a little more background info. The story seems specious and reaching to me. I know the alternative faith leader on Camp Victory pretty well. He's gotten a couple rare instances of flack, but most of the chaplains are supportive. If anything, the typical soldier is ignorant of what being a pagan means rather than hostile.

Atheism isn't an alternative faith, but rather the lack of.
And Jeremy Hall isn't a Pagan.
Unless of course you are just using the word pagan as a prejudice generalization against any non-believers.

ZPO

Olympia, WA

July 2004

APR 27, 2008 11:23 AM

Chainlink said:

Atheism isn't an alternative faith, but rather the lack of.
And Jeremy Hall isn't a Pagan.
Unless of course you are just using the word pagan as a prejudice generalization against any non-believers.

I'm well aware of the differences. I should have explained better. The tone of the portions quoted from the article is generally condemning any belief system other than Christianity and Judaism. I have no experience with any discrimination against atheists of agnostics. I do have experience with how pagans are treated.

Toku666

Columbus, OH

May 2004

APR 27, 2008 11:28 AM

Thanks for the Bush quote, Chainlink. I still get some surprised looks when I tell people about that one.

With the way the socio-political atmosphere is like in this country, I don't see any real satisfying solution to this in the near future, sadly. I'll just keep voting for the people that I think will draw the line before putting me in detention somewhere.

Toku666

Columbus, OH

May 2004

APR 27, 2008 11:31 AM

ZPO said:
I'm well aware of the differences. I should have explained better. The tone of the portions quoted from the article is generally condemning any belief system other than Christianity and Judaism. I have no experience with any discrimination against atheists of agnostics. I do have experience with how pagans are treated.

You could try talking to some of those pagans about how they feel towards atheists. You might be surprised at what you hear. On a personal level, as opposed to the President of the country making a statement, I've actually gotten more hurtful verbal abuse from pagans than I have from Christians over atheism. In my personal experience (luckily!) Christians are mainly trying to get me to "return to the fold," as it were.

cockzombie

Santa Fe, NM

July 2006

APR 27, 2008 11:47 AM

exactly. why didn't he go to the AG if he was having an issue that he felt he couldn't talk about to his chain of command. I bet you that no one in his unit or even his division will be on his side, not because he is an 'atheist' but because he isn't following proper protocol. And if he can't, how can he lead his soldiers to?

GrayRains

El Paso, TX

January 2008

APR 27, 2008 04:51 PM

Strange, I've had a few minor spats over being an atheist while I've been in the Army, but never anything serious. Most chaplains seem to take a "special interest" in me since I'm an atheist, and there's been a couple odd balls who bugged me about it before, but other than that, most people don't care. Before I deployed for OIF2, I was told repeatedly "there's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole." Now that I'm back, whenever I hear it being said, I take a perverse joy in telling whoever said that, "you forgot about ME."

I've met a fair amount of agnostics, atheists, pagans, whatever while I've been in the Army, and I never really seen them get harassed before.

I can go into depth about how I was torn into a lot for being an atheist while I was growing up, but that came with moving into an area of what I term "Super Catholics." While in the Army tho, hrmm, not so much.

IDGAS

Jackson Heights, NY

March 2004

APR 27, 2008 05:05 PM

From the "God hating" New York Times more details about Maj. Freddy J. Welborn and his contact with Specialist Hall.

When Specialist Jeremy Hall held a meeting last July for atheists and freethinkers at Camp Speicher in Iraq, he was excited, he said, to see an officer attending.

But minutes into the talk, the officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, began to berate Specialist Hall and another soldier about atheism, Specialist Hall wrote in a sworn statement. "People like you are not holding up the Constitution and are going against what the founding fathers, who were Christians, wanted for America!" Major Welborn said, according to the statement.

Major Welborn told the soldiers he might bar them from re-enlistment and bring charges against them, according to the statement.

At the July meeting, Major Welborn told the soldiers they had disgraced those who had died for the Constitution, Specialist Hall said. When he finished, Major Welborn said, according to the statement: "I love you guys; I just want the best for you. One day you will see the truth and know what I mean."

Major Welborn declined to comment beyond saying, "I'd love to tell my side of the story because it's such a false story."

But Timothy Feary, the other soldier at the meeting, said in an e-mail message: "Jeremy is telling the truth. I was there and witnessed everything."

While several who have posted have speculated that Hall was a below average solider or some sort of trouble maker that have offered nothing to support their claims. They have also not addressed why the Army would need to send Hall "home early from Iraq because of threats from fellow soldiers"

Chainlink

Dickeyville, WI

August 2005

APR 27, 2008 08:48 PM

GrayRains said:
Strange, I've had a few minor spats over being an atheist while I've been in the Army, but never anything serious. Most chaplains seem to take a "special interest" in me since I'm an atheist, and there's been a couple odd balls who bugged me about it before, but other than that, most people don't care. Before I deployed for OIF2, I was told repeatedly "there's no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole." Now that I'm back, whenever I hear it being said, I take a perverse joy in telling whoever said that, "you forgot about ME."

I've met a fair amount of agnostics, atheists, pagans, whatever while I've been in the Army, and I never really seen them get harassed before.

I can go into depth about how I was torn into a lot for being an atheist while I was growing up, but that came with moving into an area of what I term "Super Catholics." While in the Army tho, hrmm, not so much.

Witness the Atheist in Foxholes Monument, Lake Hypatia Alabama, USA.

Personally, I'm fond of the retort

"'There are no atheists in foxholes' isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes."

-James Morrow

Though I wouldn't go so far as to believe that literally in most cases.

You may also want to visit The Military Association of Atheists and Free Thinkers. They are responsible for the memorial above and offer information and support for Non-theistic service members.

Chainlink

Dickeyville, WI

August 2005

APR 27, 2008 09:07 PM

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

Welborn denies it, but the accusation is substantiated by other witnesses.

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