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Being Straight Just Isn't Enough Anymore

SATURDAY APRIL 26 2008 1:30 PM

Submitted by JekyllAndHyde. Edited By crispy.

TAGS: Iraq, atheism, discrimination, US Army

If God said, "Thou shalt not kill," how can belief in God be a prerequisite for military service?

With the shitstorm in Iraq resulting in (among other things) personnel deficiencies in the United States military, one would think the Army would be attempting to keep the soldiers they already have. However, a soldier who enlisted to serve his country and fight terrorism is claiming he has suffered discrimination; not because he is gay, but because he is an atheist.

Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.

But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

While this is not official military policy, it seems to me that anyone who is actually ready and willing to go over to Iraq should be welcome to do so, regardless of their beliefs or sexual orientation. Then again, I'm naïve enough to still attempt to apply logic to anything involving this war.

Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.

Hall, 23, was raised in a Protestant family in North Carolina and dropped out of school. It wasn't until he joined the Army that he began questioning religion, eventually deciding he couldn't follow any faith.

But he feared how that would look to other soldiers.

"I was ashamed to say that I was an atheist," Hall said.

It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,"' Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

Great, let's take one more step toward making this a religious crusade. Should we just go ahead and make it a requirement for military service that you fuck the other gender, and view your enemies as enemies of the one true Lord who hates fags and abortionists and liberals?

Hall said he had had enough but feared he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Weinstein is the foundation's president and a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate. He had previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on students at the academy, though that case was dismissed. He calls Hall a hero.

"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."

Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed on September 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kansas. Other soldiers learned of it and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.

The Army told him it couldn't protect him and sent him back to Fort Riley. He resumed duties with a military police battalion. He believes his promotion to sergeant has been blocked because of his lawsuit, but he is a team leader responsible for two junior enlisted soldiers.

I'll say right now that I usually don't have the balls to tell someone to shut up in a theater either, much less sign up for military service. On one hand, if a guy's in Iraq, having to endure harrassment from other soldiers seems like it wouldn't be that big of a concern next to worrying about IEDs. On the other hand, the Army's comment about not being able to "protect him" should make anyone nervous. If a soldier can't trust his compatriots in a war zone, there's a problem.

Lt. Col. David Shurtleff, a Fort Riley chaplain, declined to discuss Hall's case but said chaplains accommodate all faiths as best they can. In most cases, religious issues can be worked out without jeopardizing military operations.

"When you're in Afghanistan and an IED blows up a Humvee, they aren't asking about a wounded soldier's faith," Shurtleff said.

And yet

Hall said he enjoys being a team leader but has been told that having faith would make him a better leader.

"I will take care of my soldiers. Nowhere does it say I have to pray with my soldiers, but I do have to make sure my soldiers' religious needs are met," he said.

"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."

Seeing as how I'm safely tucked at home in Texas and not patrolling the streets of Iraq, it's not really my place to criticize the military, but, my aforementioned naïveté demands me to question how they could possibly see driving even more qualified soldiers away as a positive thing. Especially when the doors are opening wider to allow more convicted felons to enlist.

Personally, I do believe in God, but it's idiocy like this that has made me hesitant to say that out loud.

This is the Army now: you can be be a rapist and it's fine as long as you raped the other gender; you can be a religious extremist but not an atheist.

And we wonder why enrollments are down and we're losing the war....

216 Comments

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Shiny_metal_ass

I'm lost

October 2006

APR 29, 2008 06:07 PM

I can't believe that in 2008 this is even a discussion. And people still don't get it. I'm so glad I escaped the insanity of religion.

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN

July 2003

APR 29, 2008 06:34 PM

emotedcreations said:

malkav11 said:
Atheism based on rational inquiry, etc, rather than simply being the opposite of religion. I suppose that not everyone will agree with me as to the ultimate limits on the scope of human knowledge, but I think it's fairly obvious that whether or not we can ultimately know everything, we don't have the tools or knowhow for it at the moment. Which means that God (or pink unicorns, or whatever) could theoretically be hiding somewhere past those limits. Hence why I don't feel comfortable postulating 100% certainty. Of anything.

That by definition is agnosticism.

Agnosticism

The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.

If your belief about the absolute knowledge of God is uncertain (i.e. that you have any amount of uncertainty, even 0.10%), then you are technically agnostic in regards to the existence of God.

I agree with you that this is functionally restrictive, and subsequently increases the groups of thought that commonly wouldn't be placed in the category of agnosticism. But that's the textbook definition of an agnostic.

Oh, now I see what you're getting at, and I don't think we actually disagree on this point. The term agnostic in the context of religious preference has come to mean, essentially, someone who is undecided on the question of god. And I am definitely no such thing. But the origin of the term (and the proper definition) would certainly make sense as described, and would not be incompatible with atheism, so I am perfectly comfortable describing myself as an agnostic atheist.

I'd even go so far as to say that I don't consider perceptual phenomena to be subjects of exact knowledge, either.

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN

July 2003

APR 29, 2008 06:41 PM

For what it's worth, I've never seen any atheist concoct their own "straw god" to attack, at least not in any sort of serious discussion. Refuting arguments that I've seen have generally either a) taken a description of God or gods as generated by the theist(s) themselves and/or their holy text(s) and attacked contradictions, impossibilities, and so on, b) directly concerned themselves with theistic arguments *for* the existence of a deity, or c) pointed out the lack of evidence supporting a divine presence and the existence of supportable alternative explanations for most fundamental questions to which God/gods have traditionally been the answer.

I'm sure it happens, because there are atheist trolls* every bit as much as there are trolls representing just about every other position. But I'd hardly call it "continual".

*

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Chainlink

Dickeyville, WI

August 2005

APR 29, 2008 07:14 PM

Astrobouy said:
the term monkey refers to a specific group of families of the primate order, which does not include hominidae, the apes.

No it is not correct to say that we evolved from 'a group of the primate order', it is correct to say that we share a common ancestor with other hominidae which are a group of the primate order. And much further back, hominidae share an ancestor with other groups of primates such as monkeys, but that common ancestor was not a member of the monkey group of families (monkeys, as a group of families had not yet evolved).

But this is nitpicking really.

It does seem rather nitpicky. But, I see what you mean and thank you for the detailed clarification.

the_damned

Shakopee, MN

February 2007

APR 29, 2008 09:58 PM

I did four years in the Marine Corps, I am agnostic, or something close to it. I know I don't believe in god, I got a lot of crap for that. Every three months we would get a sexual harassment and equal oppertunity breif. They would always claim that you will never be discriminated against for age, skin color, sex, or religeous beliefs. I know first hand, and my dear friend who has departed this world, and this Hall kid knows, that is a big line of crap....

Side note, when you get your dog tags made up, they ask for you religeous preference. If you tell them athiest, they refuse to put it, they just write down "no pref".

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA

March 2004

APR 30, 2008 03:10 AM

malkav11 said:
For what it's worth, I've never seen any atheist concoct their own "straw god" to attack, at least not in any sort of serious discussion.

generally, it's sad to say, atheists don't actually need to construct straw-god arguments, because just about any crazy religious belief you can make up out of thin air is actually held by real people. a very small number of people, but enough that someone can generally point at them and say "see? this is what people of religion X believe, and that's why religion X is bad/wrong/stupid/evil." the church i was raised in believes that it's sinful to play musical instruments because of a verse in the bible that says something about 'the music of your hearts', and hearts can't play musical instruments--or so the argument goes. i really wish i were kidding.

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN

July 2003

APR 30, 2008 10:11 AM

Well, yes, that sort of thing is silly. But what I meant is basic, core beliefs. Like the whole idea that God is simultaneously omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent. In this world? C'mon.

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA

March 2004

APR 30, 2008 10:43 AM

the idea that god can't be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, based on how terrible our world is, hinges on the idea that god thinks humans' souls would be better off if everyone were perpetually happy. drill instructors at boot camp aren't malevolent--far from it, they exhaust themselves caring about their soldiers' welfare. that doesn't mean they coddle their soldiers.

sorry. as i said, i'm agnostic--but being dragged to church for my entire childhood, and then shipped off to a christian college, left me with a pretty solid grasp on theory. i can out-argue most christians i've met on biblical subjects.

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA

March 2004

APR 30, 2008 12:55 PM

actually, though, now that i think about it, painting all adherents of religion X with the brush of that religion's minor sects happens quite frequently even with core beliefs. for instance, a lot of people think--or at least, act as though they think--that all muslims are extremist terrorists. likewise, dickheads like the late Falwell give christianity a bad name despite the large number of christians who would prefer to distance themselves from his hatemongering.

Neweov

Radford, VA

December 2006

APR 30, 2008 04:40 PM

I served 7 years as an atheist, never had any problems, even had it stamped on my dog tags, knew a few others too

My favorite line:

"Are you really an atheist?"

Me: "Swear to God"

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN

July 2003

APR 30, 2008 07:04 PM

I get the notion that trials and tribulations are meant to be "good for us" somehow, but I balk at applying that line of reasoning to, e.g., the Holocaust. To me, a God that thinks something like that builds character or whatever it is is a God that should be resisted with every fiber of one's being, not worshipped.

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA

March 2004

MAY 01, 2008 02:27 AM

it's not necessarily that they're 'good for you', it's that they're irrelevant in terms of what you deserve as a reward/punishment for the life you've led or are leading. what happens to you is not of import, only what you do and who you choose to be. you can see this in the story of Job. Job was a good man from the get-go, the example that god himself held up as the best humanity had to offer. god didn't hesitate for a second to let the accuser completely wreck Job's shit for the sole purpose of proving that Job really was as nice a guy as god said he was.

to go by a strict reading of the bible, nobody gets what they deserve in this life--and that includes deserving to not die horribly in a gas chamber with six million other guys who share your faith, after months or years of sadistic, systematic abuse.

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN

July 2003

MAY 01, 2008 03:09 AM

And I have a really really fucking hard time reconciling that notion with omnibenevolence.

But, y'know, whatever. It's not like I believe any of it.

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA

March 2004

MAY 01, 2008 09:19 AM

haha, yeah. me either.

LiquidSunset

Pomona, CA

August 2006

MAY 01, 2008 07:33 PM

As long as an individual wants to join the military and fight, then all the power to them. Soldiers should get absolute respect for what they do. The sex, race, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation, and any other personal areas should not matter at all. What should matter more than anything, is the person's willingness to risk their life to fight.
I believe that it is your actions that speak for you, and your own personal beliefs which may help guide said actions.
It makes me sad that this guy was discriminated against in this way, regardless of the fact that he was doing a perfectly fine job before everyone found out that he was an atheist.