i don't think the argument is silly in the context in which it was presented. BlueRabbit's point isn't that all meat eaters should kill their own food (at least, i don't think it was). she's arguing against a point that a lot of meat eaters make--that the natural world justifies the meat that they eat through the fact that humans are 'at the top of the food chain'. her point, as i read it, is that the meat that most humans eat has very little to do with the natural world; and that therefore, the natural world does not necessarily justify the meat that most people eat.

I think Colinism was asking BlueRabbit to farm without any tools or purchased seeds as she asked meat eaters to go hunting without tools.

Making it to the top of the food chain was accomplished by brain power as humans did not have claws, sharp teeth, superior eyesight, small, or hearing. BlueRabbit has insisted that years of civilization be surrendered for her example to be meaningful.

I don't eat meat because it takes forever for me to digest.
But I won't refuse a New York Ribeye when it's offered to me, especially if there is A-1 on the table. I'm no fool.

Tabasco's steak sauce is WAY better.

I can't do spicy.

Blasphemy!

Both of you are barbarians! You never cover a good cut of meat with that stuff.

Quite correct, thank you for getting it.

I did not ask anyone to hunt without tools. I gave them knives, which is much more than the dull teeth and ineffective nails that humans have. In fact, I just emphasized my frustration with what is, in my opinion, a poor argument for eating meat. I didn't even say that people should hunt all of their food with their bare hands. I just said that meat eaters should just once, try hunting an animal without a gun. It takes skill and respect for one's prey, something that, in my experience, 90% of people who eat meat don't have.

I have grown my own food. I live in an apartment now, and I can grow herbs in my window, but not much else. I honestly miss going out to my garden and making a meal out of what I gathered. Those were the BEST salads, and someday I hope to have the resources to have a garden again. In the meantime, I buy as much as I can from the local farmer's market.

Motorfirebox got it. I am not saying we should undo years of evolution. I am saying that there is nothing about most food we eat that justifies calling it natural. My objection is not with eating meat. Someday, if it becomes a part of sustainable agriculture, I might even eat it again. I just have problems with people insisting that eating meat is necessary, and refusing to acknowledge that conventional meat production methods are harmful on the grounds that "humans are teh smartest."

I did what BlueRabbit is talking about on Walpurgisnacht, 2007. I and a couple of my heathen brethren donned our hunting clothes and went hunting for wild boar in south Alabama and south Mississippi. In order to be true to the old ways of our ancestors (the old Norse), we only used hammers, bow-and-arrow, and knives/swords to hunt with. No guns, crossbows, or tranquiliser darts.

We must've been blessed, for we downed 3 male boar and 2 female boar. We had to toss one of them out, because it had an infection already, but I bet the ants and mushrooms had a good meal on our behalf.

The first boar was easy. Out in the open, an arrow in it's gut. I think it ruptured it's liver, but that didn't stop it from running for a good mile and a half. Took a few more arrows in its back to down the fucker. We drank a toast in its memory.

The second boar was the first female. It had a nice pair of small sturdy tusks. We (four of us) cornered her near a tree. We had run out of arrows, and there was only a small amount of sunlight left, so we couldn't run back to the truck and abandon the Wild Hunt. She lunged at Jolfr (Bear) many times, and he has an eye scar to prove it. It took a few swings with my hammer, but eventually I klonked her between the eyes and she fell like a rock. We used every last bit of her and wasted nothing.

The other three were regular sniping with bow and arrow. The swords we carried were mainly for ritual purposes. We skin the animal and pour a libation of mead or whiskey over the bones, hallowing them to our gods and goddesses. The boar is seen to us heathens as a symbol of raw zest for life - unending energy and devotion to one's kith and kin.

The Norse gods Freyr and Freyja both had boars. Freyr's boar was named Gullinbursti ("Golden Mane"), who was manufactured by the Sons of Ivaldi as a gift to Freyr. The bristles in Gullinbursti's mane glowed in the dark to illuminate the way for his owner. Freya rode the boar Hildesvini (Battle Swine) when she was not using her cat-drawn chariot. According to the poem Hyndluljóð, Freyja concealed the identity of her protégé Óttar by turning him into a boar. In Norse mythology, the boar was generally associated with fertility as well as a protective talisman in war, due to the animal's sometimes fierce nature.

And Boar bacon tastes AWESOME!

So, I guess if we want to drive a car, we should, mine and process all the metals ourselves, drill for the oil and process it into plastics and gasoline, tap some rubber trees for the tires, grow, pick, and spin the fibers for the interior, go to the beach and grab some sand and melt it to make a window, etc, etc, etc....

There is not one single person in this country that can do all the things necessary to keep them alive all by themselves. It's called division of labor. Check it out sometime.

You want to say that eating meat is bad for the environment, bad for your health, fine, but please, don't use the "why don't you go kill it yourself" argument, because that's not a legitimate argument, it's emotional reactionism.

You don't make all of your own clothes, grow your own food, cut your own hair, make your own soap, etc, etc.....

So, please, just drop the "go hunt or don't eat meat" argument. It takes all the legitimate points about vegetarianism look like arrogant proselytizing.

You know, that would be a mighty fun project.

You have way too much free time

I work on cars. I'm okay with scars, baby.