To the OP, if you aren't inclined to help fathers fight legal battles directly, perhaps you can take on this burden of gathering solid actionable information. It sounds like, for the public, the majority of data is in a black hole right now with only anecdotal, and hence emotional, information to support this argument.

Even if you don't go ahead with your advocacy plans, politically I wouldn't use the term "Father's Rights". It draws a parallel between women's rights and father's rights as though they are competing ideologies. In fact, even if it is unintentional, I'm sure it draws some people into a challenge of choosing sides. Something like "Equal Parenting Rights" holds a lot more stock towards gathering support for defining a problem and seeking a rational solution. Doesn't "Equal Parenting Rights: Another Myth in the United States" sound more cast iron solid? Is someone going to conjure thoughts of all the sexist men out there when they hear that? No.

I don't think it is politically wise for a group that traditionally has been privileged (even if they are no longer privileged in certain contexts, or if the privilege has been mythologized in some cases) to use identity-politics based nomenclature. In fact it is a deadly mistake, in my opinion. The reason, if you must know, is that an identity-political group openly makes the case, for the sake of justice, that they are struggling against a privileged ideology. The women's rights movement, for instance, still holds that claim. Since there are only two genders, claiming gender rights as a male can easily be misconstrued and attacked as making the opposite claim to the claims of women's rights. You can only succeed by drawing a better picture of equality yourself and sidestepping this attack.

I know it all may sound pretty weird to think that way but it makes sense once you begin to apply that framework.

BTW, I know some more of the details of your custody battles from your other posts on this website. Congratulations of winning a long protracted struggle. I hope you give your daughter the best she can get.

It's the same way in Canada, unfortunately. Drives me batty!

Even beyond the different types of custody (which is of course important), you also have to consider what is evidence of a "biased" custody decision. In most relationships, even if both parents are working outside of the home the husband is putting in longer hours farther away and the mother has taken a demonstrably larger childcaring role. Of course it's not always that way but it's common enough to be the default. Sure, quality time not quantity time , fathers are important too yada yada yada, but usually when Suzie gets the flu at school at 2pm its Mom who will be picking her up. Then when there's a split of course the kid is mainly going to be staying with mom, it's simply less disruptive and in the child's best interest. All too often, Dad loves the kids very much and sure he'd like them to live with him, but it's usually the less realistic option (furthermore, all too often Dad's childcare plan is to have his mom or the new girlfriend look after jnr. while he's at work). Given this, if post divorce children primiarily resided with the father, say, 50% of the time, it would represent a huge bias - against women. To really decide if men are being treated unfairly, you'd have to limit your sample to instances where both parents were equal in the amount of time they could realistically devote to child rearing.

Do you even have a clue how sleazy a custody case can get? Would i be willing to help a father fight legal battles directly? Yes. If i knew all the facts, but in many custody cases, there is more mudslinging than anything else. There are lawyers that practice family law and won't even take custody battles, they're headaches.

I didn't coin the term. Evidently you didn't read any of the comments following the story. I wasn't writing about "Equal Parenting Rights" i was writing about "Father's Rights". Equal parenting was never an option in my mind, due to the actions of my ex-wife. "Equal Parenting" and "Sole custodial and legal guardianship" are two entirely different things in the court system.

The issue at hand wasn't about "equal parenting", the issue was that when i endured what i did, i had to fight Family Court to prove i was a good parent while dealing with false allegations from my ex. They took her seriously, but as soon as she was read to give up the fight, and sign over custody, there was never any argument from Family Court.

I was pissed because i felt that my rights as a father had been mishandled and poorly considered. Up until she signed the papers, it was all about the best interest of my daughter, all allegations were considered true, the instant she signed the papers, they didn't care anymore. I was awarded custody because she didn't want it. Does that necessarily make me a good father? Does my ability to be a father even come into play anymore? No. i had to prove nothing. But up until that point, anything she said was true, was considered true and i had the uphill battle of proving myself a worthy father, at one point, i was fighting just to maintain visitation of my daughter.

The story was intentionally written in a biased fashion. In case you haven't noticed, we're on a site that pushes a woman's rights. I wrote this in a fashion of father's rights and men's rights. It was written in a biased fashion, i admitted that about three pages ago, hell it may even be on the first page.

It was written to attract readers and discussion to the boards, which is pretty much the intent of any story written for SG. To create a discussion. I am pretty sure it started a discussion, that and my stories usually reflect something i am dealing with presently in my life, this happened to be something i was dealing with.

My biggest problem with the family courts i have dealt with, is there was no objectiveness. The instant we walked into court it was like the tender years doctrine was still the widely accepted procedure.

It was automatically assumed that my daughter should stay with her mother, even though her best interests were with me. That was the first step in my battle, to actually get custody of my daughter. It took tons of paperwork and time to get emergency custody of her. I had to battle the bias of the court system.

there is a metric shittun to this case that i didn't mention. For one it's personal, and for two, the story would have been 8 times as long. Bias runs deep in many parts of our legal system in my opinion, from family courts, all the way down to the police officers.

I summarize legal cases for a living and have read several hundred judgments on the topic. More importantly, I have actually been alive for about 30 years. It's adorable to assume men are assuming the bulk of hours in child rearing, it just ain't true.

Yup they are generalized statements. And they are gnerally true.

Sorry. I got the impression that you had ruled out that form of activism so I suggested another form of activism that I thought perhaps you hadn't considered and for which there is a pretty big need. I figured I was being helpful. Oops. I'm a jerk.

Oops. Sorry. Again I was just trying to be helpful by strategizing with you. I meant "Equal Parenting Rights" as in both genders have equal rights in consideration of their identities as parents. I got that from George Lackoff's framing of the Gay Marriage issue as "Equal Right to Marry" instead of "Gay Marriage". Framing is a political tool.

I guess I'm a tool too because I didn't "read the comments". I didnt' say you coined the term, or did I? LOL I'm so stupid I never know for sure. I guess I was criticizing you without realizing it because I was suggesting a better term for the term you didn't even coin thus criticizing you not only of coining the term but of coining a term with weak political potential. I must have been inadvertently implying via my subconscious how stupid you are. Lol. I always try to help by offering constructive advice but my subconscious is a jerk.

Ooops. Damn! I did it again!! Sorry. I didn't notice that this website is a site that pushes women's rights, otherwise I would not have attempted to strategize how to frame the issues you are currently dealing with in a away that will garner you more success and thus inadvertently implying that you are Mr.-something-unflattering-though-I-haven't-figured-out-what. Not only did I enter the "discussion" you cause but I did it for the sole purpose of insulting you and not respecting you! I thought I was taking these issues that are important to you seriously by trying to frame them in a more durable form and even making arguments as to why it is more durabel. But I guess those arguments were really arguments against YOU! My subconscious I guess was just out to add another notch to it's belt of people that it had the guts to insult on the internet because boy that sure is a productive thing to do, insulting people on the internet. I get a rush when I post a snarky comment. Sometime when I type "you are inferior to me" I get a boner! I guess I was really only after criticizing you. Boy I sure am surprised by my own motives today! It must suck to be me!

I think that it's great that you have such a good concept of how this imbalance of justice has come about.

I guess I didn't say anything wrong in that sentence. Whew!

I believe you. I promise I won't try to couch hidden insults by saying something in a vein you didn't expect.

All joking aside I know what it feels like to be kicked off of the rainbow too. I have my own stories. I meant no offense but I guess I made offenses all the same. That's when you just back away.

I am kind of enjoying it. He's pretty much defining the whole 'bias' point i am trying to make.

i am pretty sure we could sit down and have a drink and scare the hell out of each other with some of our horror stories.

I took no offense to it, it actually takes a lot to offend me, and usually if your expressing an intelligent opinion, it doesn't insult me.

Like i said, there was a lot more to this story than just what is stated. I kind of kept it to a minimum, and put a biased spin on it. If i had told the entire story, page one and two would be story, and then the comments would start on page three. I edited it for length about four times before i even submitted it.

Yeah..no doubt.

My anger has not been productive for me so I have developed more a ninja coping style. I have over the course of my life answered a lot of question no one thought to ask and kept my self in check with the rationality that only I trusted. I wish someone'd give me a PhD for that.

I do recall some of the things you mentioned about this battle before. I hope you'll write it all down for posterity someday even if you can't find someone to sit through it. It should be written down.

Oh and I am not a parent. I know for a fact that I am afraid of going where you've been. I don't know if that's the only reason but I know it's there.

I can relate. I was married with a son, my wife then began cheating on me with my best friend, who now is playing daddy in the house I worked so hard to make ready for my family. And now, some 2+ years of Sunday visitations later, I am being told that they are moving their new family to Virginia, 9+ hours away from me.

Now I will only be able to see him during the summers (coincidentally, the same time of year that a touring, signed musician happens to be on tour mostly.)

I am fucked.

What can I do though? I am just a musician and a father, and well, let's face it, she is an adulterating pre-school teacher that finds amusement in watching my son swear and use crude anatomical references in the middle of the public library.

Clearly, the fact that she makes more money as a teacher combined with the fact that her rich daddy bought her and the new beau a nice new house in Virginia qualifies her as an infinitely better parent than myself.

No more building forts in the living room and watching silly Disney movies and staying up late building legos for me I guess.

But hey, at least I can take consolation in the fact that at almost 30 years old his new "daddy" will let my son watch him play X-Box, and surely he will learn everything he needs to know from the various FHM and Maxim magazines strewn around the living room floor.

Fuck.

-ts

Are you serious? Please tell me this blathering is a joke. Dad's pawning their kids off on girlfriends and moms, Dad always works further away and longer than mom, Dad's never picking the kids up when they are sick... you do know it's not 1950 anymore, right? Sometimes us Moms don't work for pin money, but for a career! Shocking, isn't it?

I am sorry man. I know that feeling all too well.

Oh for the love of christ. I can't believeI actually have t prove that women are spendingmore time in child rearing than their male counterparts.This is all I'm going to bother looking up on the subject but trust me, it's the case.

I'm sure this generation of fathers is providing more care for their children then ever before and I hope the trend continues. But absolute parity in day to day child care? Hardly! With four out of ten mothers of young children not working in 2004, they are the ones providing primary care and that will generally continue after the divorce. As long as trends like this continue there's no way that primary residence is going to be given to the father in anything approaching half of all cases. Add the mothers returning to work on a part time basis so they can provide more care for the kids, and you can see why the 90% figure might not be that far off (even accounting for different types of custody), and be completely justified. The bulk of families are simply stacked so that women are providing more day to day care. Sure there are exceptions many of the posters here may even be among them. It's not the rule.

(Ok ignore the idea that husband's are often relying on other caregivers when they make their case about why they should get custody. (It ain't a matter of being inept, it's more like school gets out at 3:30 and I don't get home till six but my mom/sister/girlfriend is around and she is happy to help out). It's not an uncommon occurence but I am not going to bother trying to prove it so I will concede the point if it makes people feel better. Aside from that, do people honestly think that father's are, as a whole, providing half of all child care time?)

Look, if I'm taking a strident dismissive tone its because these "fathers rights" groups really annoy me. People who have been through a divorce and come out of it with a beef at the court system are the absolute least likely people to be objective about it. Yes divorce is painful and if you had to fight it in court it was almost certainly 10 times worse. They feel screwed? I'd be amazed if they didn't. But father's rights types, rather than trying to come to grips with a difficult situation or try to figure out why the judge imposed the terms he/she did, seem to take excess solace in deliberately misunderstanding statistics like the divorce rate above. Then the media gives them some sympathetic coverage and suddenly people think there's an issue.

So wait. According to you, only men work until 6. A mother works from 9 until 3:00 so that she can pick up her child?

I pick up my child everyday. The kids parents who i know are still together, still have gramma/friend/ME pick up their child and watch them until they can get to them. Because it today's society, ya know, women work too, you know that right?

You are an extremely biased person, you just fail to realize it, you really do. You're making biased statements, with nothing, no citation to back them up. How the hell do you know for a fact that fathers, as a whole, are not providing at least 50% of the child care?

People like you are obviously part of the problem, you see a few court cases, and make general, sweeping assumptions about how all men are.

I am saying that it is a prevalent enough phenomenon to skew statistics away from women getting custody only half of the time. Do you feel it doen't happen a statistically notable amount of the time.

And absolutely more and more women are pursuing full time careers outside the home. And all too often it means they pull a double shift of child care when they get back, which goes to the main point below.

And I already said I'm prepared to drop that particular sub-point of a sub-point if it makes people happy. The main point is stil valid - you think men are really putting in half of all child care hours in pre-divorce, two parent families?