You make some valid points but pure and simply we (the U.S.) have taken the moral high ground in this war. We must be better than them in everything that we do. The simple fact that you have conceded that the Islamofascists have created a monster in us is just simply evidence that they have won. They have taken us to their level and that we are no better and no worse than they are.

A perfect analogy would be Iraq. One of the reasons that we invaded was the, now spurious, claim that Saddam possessed biological and chemical weapons. What we are doing in Guantanamo, the renditions, etc is no different than if we had invaded Iraq under those pretenses and then promptly started dropping sarin and mustard gas bombs.

We are hypocrites and I am painfully ashamed of our actions. I am still proud of my country but we need to hang our heads as a nation and admit defeat.

dont take sides. reject evil, in all its forms.
troll.

Weren't you leaving?

Somebody paid a year membership for him

troll claims to have a fan that bought him a years worth of trollery.

And only asshole fuckfaces don't recognize we're doing this to another human being. No person should go through this shit. We as americans should NEVER put someone through this shit. I don't care if this person raped your family, killed them, then pissed on their corpses.

We can't go around ignoring our own rules and laws trying to be the 'big man on campus'. It doesn't work. Eventually everyone gangs up on you and brings you down a peg.

We need to re-evaluate what we are doing. Start taking a higher moral ground instead of turning into our enemies. We need to be that beacon of hope and freedom we once were. Because right now, we're looking like the shit heap you don't want to be a part of.

The staggering injustice of Gauntanamo astounds me still

and it sickens me that the government of my own country hasnt the balls to tell the US how misguidedly evil they are

saying nothing is as good as condoning

Hey, if covering him up in PineSol and using him as a human mop to soak up urine helps to protect me and my family from the terrorists, then mop away.

Which explains why you favor torture and this kind of foreign policy.

You are not a conservative. You never argue for any kind of conservative economics. You never argue for any kind of conservative philosophies on the role of government and federalism. You constantly self-promote how many liberal endeavors and causes that you support and endorse.

The only thing "conservative" that you argue in favor of is callous and sweeping Muslimcide and excusing or being entertained by their torture, parsed with the occasional lampoon of the media and liberal blogs.

Sorry, you need more legit conservative street cred before you can rail against what "liberals are for."

If the enemy "hates freedom" - I am looking at the ones who are gutting the Bill of RIghts, suspending due process, spying on the citizens, claiming "unitary executive" legal theories, issuing signing statements, running international torture facilities, claiming executive privilege/secrecy/immunity to oversight rights, etc.... all of which run contrary to legitimate conservative principles of limited government, public control, and balanced three branch government. <---- The Muslims aren't doing that to us. Neocons are.

So yeah, liberal, I guess you are "siding with the enemies" of this republic and Constitution.

You brought up a good point that is little more than propaganda, not on purpose mind you. The whole idea that as soon as we stoop to the enemies level they have won means nothing. It wrongly implies that one of the enemies goals is to somehow make us commit heinous acts, their goal is to win plain and simple as ours should be. As I stated before and should have added to my original post. all of this is basic human nature, we can pretend all we want that we are enlightened beings filled with good but history has shown us time and time again that we are capable of the worst atrocities and all it takes for us to commit them is the most basic pretense that the enemy is somehow inferior to us in some way. Yes we should be better, we should act better, we should know better, however we are just as human as the enemy we fight and thus are no better, no smarter, nor more enlightened, and therefor we are just as prone to commit the same heinous acts as those that we condemn our enemy for committing.

Perhaps a little experiment will prove how short sighted and bigoted this guy is. Bold italics added for emphasis and for humor.

Talking the way you talk makes them talk the way they talk. You're an idiot.

Which is why we have a Constitution and legal system, as well as having signed into treaties like Geneva, to act as a bulwark against those primitive impulses ... and it is why the suicidebelt islamopeople have not.

That is your difference.

Basically conceding to those impulses, declaring torture is not torture, saying people who do it will be protected from being prosecuted themselves, etc.... is the mark of a society in decay.

It is not that fucking tough to conduct dignified warfare. We fought the Japanese who were kamikaziing our naval craft, enslaving and beheading POWs with samurai swords - we didn't build international torture camps and use their captured as urine mops.

The only thing that changed is the morality of the people and their appetite for passively witnessing their government use extreme force and techniques.

No we only rounded up 100,000+ japanese who were american citicens and interred them in prison camps for the duration of the war. Also the Japanese would kill themselves rather than submit to being captured so there really is no telling what we would have done.

If you believe what this lawyer claims he was told by the guy.

Which I don't.

So the verdict's still out on Guantanamo Bay then, is it? The pictures of past abuses weren't enough?