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Speeding Boats Nearly Trigger World War III

TUESDAY JANUARY 8 2008 9:00 AM

Submitted by Zarth. Edited By Zarth.

TAGS: Iran

Five Iranian speedboats intimidated three American warships on Sunday morning in the Straight of Hormuz.

"Five boats, suspected to be from the Islamic Republic of Iran Revolutionary Guard Navy, maneuvered aggressively in close proximity of the [guided missile destroyer USS] Hopper," a Navy news release says.

"Following standard procedure, Hopper issued warnings, attempted to establish communications with the small boats and conducted evasive maneuvering."

The Iranians typically operate close to U.S. ships in the Strait of Hormuz, but in this incident the Iranian boats maneuvered aggressively, even passing between U.S. ships in the formation, a Navy official said Monday.


According to Pentagon officials, the boats radioed threats ahead of them:

The U.S. Navy also received a radio transmission that officials believe came from the Iranian boats. The transmission said, "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes," the U.S. military officials told CNN.


American seamen took battle stations and were reportedly on the verge of firing upon the boats ("the Pentagon will neither confirm nor deny . . .") when the Iranians veered off. The ranking American naval commander in the region also told the BBC that the Iranians "dropped floating 'box-like objects'" in the water at some point before their departure.

On the one hand, I have to admit that I'm embarrassed as a citizen to see three American ships of the line scared shitless by a handful of speedboats dropping boxes ("mysterious boxes!") into the water, but it also must be conceded that, in the aftermath of the Cole Incident, the American vessels were actually facing a credible potential threat.

Yet that fact in and of itself serves only to underscore just how far out of our depth we really are in this "War on Terror." The warships involved were a guided missile cruiser, a guided missile destroyer, and a frigate. These are seriously powerful and expensive machines, crewed by highly trained and professional personnel, deployed halfway across the world at great cost to American taxpayer - and vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles. Future historians, no doubt, will mark the invention of the AK-47 as the death-knell of the capacity of conventional military forces to project political power, and the development of the IED as the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare. That said, I must confess to some dismay that our leadership and military establishment have yet to actually recognize this fact - even some three decades after the dénouement in Vietnam, two after the spectacular failure of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and despite the encouragement of "dirty little wars" by both superpowers against their rivals throughout the Cold War - and yet I suppose the directors of the military-industrial complex cannot be blamed for blinding themselves to their own obsolescence. Selah.

Meanwhile, the Iranians are treating the entire incident as a tempest in a teapot.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called the Iranian action "provocative and dangerous".

Iran played down the event, describing it as an "ordinary occurrence".

"This... happens for the two sides every once in a while and, after the identification of the two sides, the issue is resolved," foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini said.

Official media also reported the US statement about Iran's allegedly threatening behaviour with scepticism, implying that Washington was exaggerating the incident.


While Washington's nose remains out of joint:

Although Tehran dismissed the incident as routine, Ms Rice told the BBC's Arabic service in an interview there was nothing normal about it.

"At least I hope that's not what the Iranians consider to be normal behaviour, because it was provocative, and that kind of provocation is dangerous and I would sincerely hope that the Iranians would refrain from any such activity."


It may yet signify a raising of tensions, but honestly I doubt that even Bush is (still) arrogant enough to think he could win a confrontation with Iran at this juncture - the Neocon clique has been severely chastised by reality (with its well-known liberal bias) these past two years. Even so, had the incident resulted in actual gunfire being exchanged, we all might have woken up in a very different world on Monday.

 

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J24U

J24U

Danvers, MA
February 2006

JAN 08, 2008 09:06 AM

Not waiting long at all to try out the new Newswire title huh? wink
Good article my friend. I caught a quick blurb on the radio about this this morning and was looking for more details. Thanks.

Kindle

Kindle

Seattle, WA
March 2006

JAN 08, 2008 09:15 AM

Mysterious boxes intrigue me. I can't help but want to touch them.

hk85

hk85

Guerneville, CA
October 2007

JAN 08, 2008 09:22 AM



Iran played down the event, describing it as an "ordinary occurrence".



This is likely closer to truth than I am comfortable with. The US managed to sink six "armed speedboats" in 1988 (in retaliation), a couple months before Iran Air 655 was shot down.



The Iranians typically operate close to U.S. ships in the Strait of Hormuz, but in this incident the Iranian boats maneuvered aggressively, even passing between U.S. ships in the formation, a Navy official said Monday.



I'm afraid that this is what it's all coming down to. The control of The Strait of Hormuz. And preventitive engagement.

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

Charleston, SC
August 2004

JAN 08, 2008 09:31 AM

Zarth said:

Yet that fact in and of itself serves only to underscore just how far out of our depth we really are in this "War on Terror." The warships involved were a guided missile cruiser, a guided missile destroyer, and a frigate. These are seriously powerful and expensive machines, crewed by highly trained and professional personnel, deployed halfway across the world at great cost to American taxpayer - and vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles. Future historians, no doubt, will mark the invention of the AK-47 as the death-knell of the capacity of conventional military forces to project political power, and the development of the IED as the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare. That said, I must confess to some dismay that our leadership and military establishment have yet to actually recognize this fact - even some three decades after the dénouement in Vietnam, two after the spectacular failure of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and despite the encouragement of "dirty little wars" by both superpowers against their rivals throughout the Cold War - and yet I suppose the directors of the military-industrial complex cannot be blamed for blinding themselves to their own obsolescence. Selah.



after the cole, we take this "speed boat run amok" shit very seriously in the navy. in boot camp we're not only trained to handle the aftermath of such a situation, but also how to identify and deal with potential terrorist or insurgent threats, including IEDs (albeit on a smaller scale than the rest of our naval schtick). i can only imagine the level of training that other branches receive, but i'm sure that they (especially those directly involved with boots-on-ground operations) are more prepared for dealing with guerrilla tactics. as much as i agree that current insurgent tactics and methods have greatly changed the way we view and participate in warfare (or, as you say, hammer the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare), i'd have to disagree with you that the military is wholly unprepared to deal with those modern developments. sure, maybe we're not making the adaptation as quickly as convention is evolving, but don't count us out yet.

the government, though? they're ass-backwards on everything.

plus, this is the navy. aside from individual augmentees, seals, seabees, and dropping warheads on foreheads, we kind of want to stay out of this whole ordeal, sit back, and relax. those speedboats were just harshing the crew's cool. keep that shit away from our steel picnics, yo.

also, good article. next time, less hatin'. shit. wink

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

JAN 08, 2008 09:37 AM

Awesome article, but as Crisp said don't count conventional armies out just yet, altho conquoring and holding a country is difficult, simply using your forces to either exterminate the entire civilian population or move them off the land you want is still an effective tactic and has been used successfully throughout history.

I'm not advocating it I am simply pointing out that it works exceptionally well.

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JAN 08, 2008 09:39 AM

MrCrisp said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Zarth said:
Yet that fact in and of itself serves only to underscore just how far out of our depth we really are in this "War on Terror." The warships involved were a guided missile cruiser, a guided missile destroyer, and a frigate. These are seriously powerful and expensive machines, crewed by highly trained and professional personnel, deployed halfway across the world at great cost to American taxpayer - and vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles. Future historians, no doubt, will mark the invention of the AK-47 as the death-knell of the capacity of conventional military forces to project political power, and the development of the IED as the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare. That said, I must confess to some dismay that our leadership and military establishment have yet to actually recognize this fact - even some three decades after the dénouement in Vietnam, two after the spectacular failure of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and despite the encouragement of "dirty little wars" by both superpowers against their rivals throughout the Cold War - and yet I suppose the directors of the military-industrial complex cannot be blamed for blinding themselves to their own obsolescence. Selah.



after the cole, we take this "speed boat run amok" shit very seriously in the navy. in boot camp we're not only trained to handle the aftermath of such a situation, but also how to identify and deal with potential terrorist or insurgent threats, including IEDs (albeit on a smaller scale than the rest of our naval schtick). i can only imagine the level of training that other branches receive, but i'm sure that they (especially those directly involved with boots-on-ground operations) are more prepared for dealing with guerrilla tactics. as much as i agree that current insurgent tactics and methods have greatly changed the way we view and participate in warfare (or, as you say, hammer the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare), i'd have to disagree with you that the military is wholly unprepared to deal with those modern developments. sure, maybe we're not making the adaptation as quickly as convention is evolving, but don't count us out yet.

the government, though? they're ass-backwards on everything.


I'm not counting you out, as such. But it seems pretty indisputable that our own forces are much too easily targeted and successfully engaged by materially-inferior enemies.

But my point, really, was that although conventional forces are nevertheless superlatively capable of defending themselves against asymmetric tactics, their (or "your," if I must be blunt) capacity to establish political control in a hostile environment has been fatally compromised for nearly fifty years.

In other words, that it used to be you could invade a country, defeat its military, accept its surrender, and establish a peace. That cannot happen in today's world - even in countries where foreign intervention might be welcomed by a majority of the civilian population. This has been demonstrated time and time again by facts on the ground, and it makes sense when one considers that the technology to deliver damage cheaply has far outstripped the technology to protect a military asset from said damage.

_DictionaryGirl_

_DictionaryGirl_

NEWSWIRE

San Diego, CA

JAN 08, 2008 09:49 AM

MrCrisp said:

plus, this is the navy. aside from individual augmentees, seals, seabees, and dropping warheads on foreheads, we kind of want to stay out of this whole ordeal, sit back, and relax. those speedboats were just harshing the crew's cool. keep that shit away from our steel picnics, yo.



I love the navy mentality. My dad would be proud of you. biggrin

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
Also: Go Zarth!!!

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

Charleston, SC
August 2004

JAN 08, 2008 09:51 AM

Zarth said:
In other words, that it used to be you could invade a country, defeat its military, accept its surrender, and establish a peace. That cannot happen in today's world - even in countries where foreign intervention might be welcomed by a majority of the civilian population. This has been demonstrated time and time again by facts on the ground.



no, i agree with you on that. things are a lot different now. my main issue with the navy is that our usefulness is waning in this new age of warfare. not that i don't enjoy not being in harm's way.

Zarth said:

But it seems pretty indisputable that our own forces are much too easily targeted and successfully engaged by materially-inferior enemies.



don't the recent clashes (like this one) with and successful operations against pirates count to our favor? the ships involved were CGs and DDGs, the very ships you said were "vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles."

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

JAN 08, 2008 09:58 AM

Zarth said:

MrCrisp said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Zarth said:
Yet that fact in and of itself serves only to underscore just how far out of our depth we really are in this "War on Terror." The warships involved were a guided missile cruiser, a guided missile destroyer, and a frigate. These are seriously powerful and expensive machines, crewed by highly trained and professional personnel, deployed halfway across the world at great cost to American taxpayer - and vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles. Future historians, no doubt, will mark the invention of the AK-47 as the death-knell of the capacity of conventional military forces to project political power, and the development of the IED as the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare. That said, I must confess to some dismay that our leadership and military establishment have yet to actually recognize this fact - even some three decades after the dénouement in Vietnam, two after the spectacular failure of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and despite the encouragement of "dirty little wars" by both superpowers against their rivals throughout the Cold War - and yet I suppose the directors of the military-industrial complex cannot be blamed for blinding themselves to their own obsolescence. Selah.



after the cole, we take this "speed boat run amok" shit very seriously in the navy. in boot camp we're not only trained to handle the aftermath of such a situation, but also how to identify and deal with potential terrorist or insurgent threats, including IEDs (albeit on a smaller scale than the rest of our naval schtick). i can only imagine the level of training that other branches receive, but i'm sure that they (especially those directly involved with boots-on-ground operations) are more prepared for dealing with guerrilla tactics. as much as i agree that current insurgent tactics and methods have greatly changed the way we view and participate in warfare (or, as you say, hammer the final nail in the coffin of conventional warfare), i'd have to disagree with you that the military is wholly unprepared to deal with those modern developments. sure, maybe we're not making the adaptation as quickly as convention is evolving, but don't count us out yet.

the government, though? they're ass-backwards on everything.


I'm not counting you out, as such. But it seems pretty indisputable that our own forces are much too easily targeted and successfully engaged by materially-inferior enemies.

But my point, really, was that although conventional forces are nevertheless superlatively capable of defending themselves against asymmetric tactics, their (or "your," if I must be blunt) capacity to establish political control in a hostile environment has been fatally compromised for nearly fifty years.

In other words, that it used to be you could invade a country, defeat its military, accept its surrender, and establish a peace. That cannot happen in today's world - even in countries where foreign intervention might be welcomed by a majority of the civilian population. This has been demonstrated time and time again by facts on the ground, and it makes sense when one considers that the technology to deliver damage cheaply has far outstripped the technology to protect a military asset from said damage.



Completely true, however military technology is always changing one way or another it's only a matter of time before countermeasures are developed to stop IED's and the like, at which time new counter counter measures will be developed.

It's like the arms race between swords, then arrows, then guns and body armor going back to the first time someone stabbed someone else, leather then scale then chain and eventually plate armors and their like were phased out because they were too heavy and the weapons used were too powerful, now we have come back full circle again where we have developed armors so strong that weapons that would have killed a man in the past are stopped completely.

Only an opinion on this last part, but I don't think it's the technology that has caused this shift so much as the ability for angry people to get their hands on the information they need to plan and carry out an attack. With the internet and current communications technology being what it is, any angry crackpot who puts in the time can learn to make a bomb or what not and "Affect change" 50 plus years ago most people were still living outside of cities and farming without access to that level of knowledge that could allow them to do the things that they do now.

LostLucy

LostLucy

USA
December 2006

JAN 08, 2008 09:59 AM

Don't count conventional military intervention out regarding interacting with Iran?

I don't think so. The whole incident is terrifying. Tell me I am naive, go ahead and say it,

but we need to sit down with Ahmadinejad, listen regardless of what we do, and just demonstrate basic respect and a willingness to have a dialogue, whether the actions of these rowboaters were sanctioned by higher levels or not.

Good show Zarth!!!

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JAN 08, 2008 10:03 AM

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
In other words, that it used to be you could invade a country, defeat its military, accept its surrender, and establish a peace. That cannot happen in today's world - even in countries where foreign intervention might be welcomed by a majority of the civilian population. This has been demonstrated time and time again by facts on the ground.


no, i agree with you on that. things are a lot different now. my main issue with the navy is that our usefulness is waning in this new age of warfare. not that i don't enjoy not being in harm's way.


I'm glad we see eye-to-eye on this. Let's make out.

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
But it seems pretty indisputable that our own forces are much too easily targeted and successfully engaged by materially-inferior enemies.


don't the recent clashes (like this one) with and successful operations against pirates count to our favor? the ships involved were CGs and DDGs, the very ships you said were "vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles."


Well, we're kind of arguing apples and oranges, here. The tactical and strategic imperatives of piracy are qualitatively different from the imperatives of asymmetric warfare. A pirate's objective, in conflict with a superior force, is to escape and survive. That's not necessarily the same as an insurgent's or a terrorist's objective. I may have overstated the case, but I think my point actually still holds.




Colinism said:
Completely true, however military technology is always changing one way or another it's only a matter of time before countermeasures are developed to stop IED's and the like, at which time new counter counter measures will be developed.


I'm not comfortable making that prediction. Weapons are much easier to develop than armor.

Colinism said:
Only an opinion on this last part, but I don't think it's the technology that has caused this shift so much as the ability for angry people to get their hands on the information they need to plan and carry out an attack. With the internet and current communications technology being what it is, any angry crackpot who puts in the time can learn to make a bomb or what not and "Affect change" 50 plus years ago most people were still living outside of cities and farming without access to that level of knowledge that could allow them to do the things that they do now.


I don't think it's so much information that people are getting their hands too easily, as much as it is assault rifles. Hence my reference to the AK-47. I don't think it's a mere coincidence that the ascendancy of guerrilla commenced with that specific weapon.

LostLucy said:
Good show Zarth!!!


Thank you. I do try not be an idiot. It's good to hear I succeed.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

JAN 08, 2008 10:25 AM

Zarth said:

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
In other words, that it used to be you could invade a country, defeat its military, accept its surrender, and establish a peace. That cannot happen in today's world - even in countries where foreign intervention might be welcomed by a majority of the civilian population. This has been demonstrated time and time again by facts on the ground.


no, i agree with you on that. things are a lot different now. my main issue with the navy is that our usefulness is waning in this new age of warfare. not that i don't enjoy not being in harm's way.


I'm glad we see eye-to-eye on this. Let's make out.

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
But it seems pretty indisputable that our own forces are much too easily targeted and successfully engaged by materially-inferior enemies.


don't the recent clashes (like this one) with and successful operations against pirates count to our favor? the ships involved were CGs and DDGs, the very ships you said were "vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles."


Well, we're kind of arguing apples and oranges, here. The tactical and strategic imperatives of piracy are qualitatively different from the imperatives of asymmetric warfare. A pirate's objective, in conflict with a superior force, is to escape and survive. That's not necessarily the same as an insurgent's or a terrorist's objective. I may have overstated the case, but I think my point actually still holds.




Colinism said:
Completely true, however military technology is always changing one way or another it's only a matter of time before countermeasures are developed to stop IED's and the like, at which time new counter counter measures will be developed.


I'm not comfortable making that prediction. Weapons are much easier to develop than armor.

Colinism said:
Only an opinion on this last part, but I don't think it's the technology that has caused this shift so much as the ability for angry people to get their hands on the information they need to plan and carry out an attack. With the internet and current communications technology being what it is, any angry crackpot who puts in the time can learn to make a bomb or what not and "Affect change" 50 plus years ago most people were still living outside of cities and farming without access to that level of knowledge that could allow them to do the things that they do now.


I don't think it's so much information that people are getting their hands too easily, as much as it is assault rifles. Hence my reference to the AK-47. I don't think it's a mere coincidence that the ascendancy of guerrilla commenced with that specific weapon.

LostLucy said:
Good show Zarth!!!


Thank you. I do try not be an idiot. It's good to hear I succeed.



Sorry I never got to finish my last post I had to rush back to work, but you made a good point that I was going to touch on in that post so I'll just reply here. Altho the AK 47 is one of many excellent and easy to get weapons, butwithout the knowledge of tactics and training it's not all that useful against a conventional well trained army, thats where knowledge and information come in. The most effective IED's are arguably coming from outside of Iraq as is the training used to carry out these attacks. This access to weapons and tech and info was simply not available 50+ years ago. Now it would honestly not take long for any of us to assemble an arsenal legally or illegally get the training and technology needed and carry out any number of heinous crimes. Sure lots of people who try this sort of thing are arrested but enough still get through the cracks to commit them. smile

Glad to see you on the newswire man. biggrin

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JAN 08, 2008 10:49 AM

Colinism said:
Sorry I never got to finish my last post I had to rush back to work, but you made a good point that I was going to touch on in that post so I'll just reply here. Altho the AK 47 is one of many excellent and easy to get weapons, butwithout the knowledge of tactics and training it's not all that useful against a conventional well trained army, thats where knowledge and information come in. The most effective IED's are arguably coming from outside of Iraq as is the training used to carry out these attacks. This access to weapons and tech and info was simply not available 50+ years ago. Now it would honestly not take long for any of us to assemble an arsenal legally or illegally get the training and technology needed and carry out any number of heinous crimes. Sure lots of people who try this sort of thing are arrested but enough still get through the cracks to commit them. smile

Glad to see you on the newswire man. biggrin


Well, I don't disagree with you there, really. I do think the technology is of the primary importance, though. Tactics evolve, by trial and error. But without access to cheap, easily-deployed weaponry, there'd be no conflict in which tactics could evolve. That said, asymmetric warfare is obviously something that's made possible by a host of factors, including access to information.

And thanks.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

JAN 08, 2008 10:50 AM

Seriously, this article was a breath of fresh air. I'm so happy that you are Newswire now. biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

/gushing

This incident scares the shit out of me. It could have easily escalated into a very big event. During my brother's last Naval deployment (to Iraq) their biggest fears were the small vessels. But if the Iranians were deliberately threatening our NAVY, my question is: Why? Were they hoping that we would instigate a conflict because they know that we cannot hold a war on another front?

Honestly, Iran scares me more than Iraq ever did. I pray that a new administration can begin to seek true political truce with them, without grandstanding back.

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

Charleston, SC
August 2004

JAN 08, 2008 10:53 AM

Zarth said:

MrCrisp said:

Zarth said:
But it seems pretty indisputable that our own forces are much too easily targeted and successfully engaged by materially-inferior enemies.


don't the recent clashes (like this one) with and successful operations against pirates count to our favor? the ships involved were CGs and DDGs, the very ships you said were "vulnerable, as this incident shows, to a much smaller number of fanatically dedicated men putatively equipped with inexpensive explosives, delivered in commercially-available vehicles."


Well, we're kind of arguing apples and oranges, here. The tactical and strategic imperatives of piracy are qualitatively different from the imperatives of asymmetric warfare. A pirate's objective, in conflict with a superior force, is to escape and survive. That's not necessarily the same as an insurgent's or a terrorist's objective. I may have overstated the case, but I think my point actually still holds.



objective and tactical comparisons aside, i believe that the capabilities are easily comparable.

From the aforementioned article:

It was during a "routine boarding" of the suspected pirates' vessel that the naval boarding team noticed the crew was armed with what appeared to be rocket-propelled grenade launchers, said the Navy.

"The suspected pirates then opened fire on the Navy ships," a press release from the Navy stated. "The Cape St. George and Gonzalez returned fire with small arms in self-defense."



or do RPGs not count?

all in all, i am positive that DDG-70's crew could have handled any attack perpetrated by the speedboats. i can confidently say that the sailors on watch could have, if necessary, dealt with the threat and potential aftermath. like i said earlier, in bootcamp we're trained to respond to situations exactly like the Cole bombing, and ships' crews run drills frequently. and it's not like the Hopper is defenseless, either. the ship's battery includes 2 25mm and 4 12.7 mm guns, not to mention any armed crew members. CGs and FFGs are similarly outfitted.

also, one article and you're on the newswire? where's my gold star? wink (i know, i know; you've written 4 tongue)

i still love you, though. you insufferable you.

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