Rafi said:
Also, people who use the phrase "think outside the box" are unequivocally the least likely people in the world to actually "think outside the box."

emotedcreations said:

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Any lawyer will tell you that. Hell, common sense will tell you that. Otherwise the most common defense would be "I didn't know it was illegal." They broke the law--bottom line. This is ridiculous. The administration and Republicans are just trying to reward them for playing along. It's ridiculous.

TheStatutoryApe said:
I believe that the power under question is the ability to "tap" international calls originating in the US.
As far as immunity goes its to cover the companies in regards to what has already happened. Its not as if they now have the ability to wiretap peoples phones at will with out worry of prosecution. Essentially what they're saying is "We're not going to let you get fucked because you believed the guv when they told you what they were doing was legal."
The most likely reason for them chosing the version they did is because a main part of this is the use of ECHELON which the judiciary commitees version prohibits.
Expanding ECHELON's datamining to target international calls originating from the US is the only form of "illegal wiretapping" that has been uncovered as far as I know. Does anyone know of any that were targeting a single person or line?

"Senator Chris Dodd won a temporary victory today after his threats of a filibuster forced Democratic leadership to push back consideration of a measure that would grant immunity to telecom companies that were complicit in warrantless surveillance."

KUNGFOO said:
Update:

Dodd filibuster threat causes Reid to postpone FISA bill with Telecom Immunity

[Follow link for video]

Thanks to anybody that called or sent e-mails, and thank you Chris Dodd! Unfortunately, this issue will probably come up again early in 2008.

KUNGFOO said:
Update:

Dodd filibuster threat causes Reid to postpone FISA bill with Telecom Immunity

[Follow link for video]

Thanks to anybody that called or sent e-mails, and thank you Chris Dodd! Unfortunately, this issue will probably come up again early in 2008.

Zarth said:
RON PAUL '08!

AmbientLight said:
I met this dude and we were talking about the mess this administration has made. He said...

"I blame the Democrats."

"Why's that"... I asked. He said...

"Because they didn't have the balls to stand up to Bush and Cheney."

Seems they still don't...

KUNGFOO said:
Update:

Dodd filibuster threat causes Reid to postpone FISA bill with Telecom Immunity

[Follow link for video]

Thanks to anybody that called or sent e-mails, and thank you Chris Dodd! Unfortunately, this issue will probably come up again early in 2008.

scylis said:

Dear Kindle:

Thank you for contacting me concerning the President's domestic surveillance program. I appreciate hearing from you.

Providing any president with the flexibility necessary to fight terrorism without compromising our constitutional rights can be a delicate balance. I agree that technological advances and changes in the nature of the threat we face may require that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), enacted in 1978, be updated to reflect the reality of the post 9/11 world. But that does not absolve the President of the responsibility to fully brief Congress on the new security challenge and to work cooperatively with Congress to address it.

As you know, Congress has been considering the issue of domestic surveillance since the last Congress. The debate is still ongoing, but the shift in party control on Capitol Hill has clearly had an impact on this critical discussion over the balance of power in our system of government. On January 17, 2007, after conducting its wiretapping program without court approval for over 5 years, the Justice Department announced that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court had approved its program to listen to communications between people in the U.S. and other countries if there is probable cause to believe one or the other is involved in terrorism. Then, in early February, the Justice Department announced that it will give the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees of both chambers of Congress access to previously withheld documents on the NSA program. The congressional committees with jurisdiction over this issue hailed the agreement as a step in the right direction.

However, there is still significant work to be done. Just before the August recess, Congress passed hastily crafted legislation to expand the authority of Attorney General and the director of National Intelligence to conduct surveillance of suspected foreign terrorists without a warrant or real oversight, even if the targets are communicating with someone in the United States. This legislation was signed into law by the President on August 5, 2007, and expires after six months.

Congress is working on reforms to the FISA bill to be enacted before the expiration of the current legislation. On November 15, 2007, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 3773, the "Responsible Electronic Surveillance That is Overseen, Reviewed, and Effective Act of 2007" (RESTORE Act) by a vote of 227-189. The House bill does not provide retroactive immunity for private companies that may have participated in the illegal collection of personal information, nor does it provide immunity for administration officials who may have acted illegally. The Senate committees on Intelligence and the Judiciary have since approved proposals with their own reforms to FISA. The debate over retroactive immunity is still ongoing, and I will support a filibuster should legislation that includes such a provision come to the Senate floor.

The American people understand that new threats require flexible responses to keep them safe, and that our intelligence gathering capability needs to be improved. What they do not want is for the President or the Congress to use these imperatives as a pretext for promoting policies that not only go further than necessary to meet a real threat, but also violate some of the most basic tenets of our democracy. Like most members of Congress, I continue to believe the essential objective of conducting effective domestic surveillance in the war on terror can be achieved without discarding our constitutionally protected civil liberties. I look forward to working with my colleagues in Congress, and with the President, to meet this uniquely American challenge.

Thank you again for writing. Please stay in touch as this debate continues.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator