I think you hit it right on, punk. It's not only unconstitutional, but the prospect of the government spying on our EVERY move is also extremely unsettling and scary....

and I, for one, think that this sort of legislation is hardly going to do a damn thing anyhow, except alienating Americans.

I don't say this to be a dick, as I fear that most people don't really understand the issue here, but...

This post shows an fundamental misunderstanding of what I have said, the argument, and a understanding of our legal system. To adequately respond, it would involve a lot of typing, and frankly, I'm not even sure you would completely comprehend it. In fact, I initially suspected you haven't either throughly read or comprehended the article, because there are two FISA bills (one without the immunity), which flies in the face of this earlier post:

And hell, if I really had the time today to type it all out, with proper references, I would. Maybe somebody else here would be willing to tackle it.

Agreed. But you must realize that it is part of FTR's job here to make sure we don't think too far outside the box.

There is no box. Move along.

Of course they want the ability to wiretap anyone at any time.


They are sure that their candidate will be the one in charge next year so why wouldn't they want to have that control over the lowly plebes?


Democrats are no different than Republicans, all either one cares about it expanding and maintaining power for their own party.

Explain "base" bill. I don't really understand how it's different than any other bill. The cloture is what's going to fuck them assuming the majority of the Senate is going along with this (which is safe to assume?), but that's not really any different than the normal process. Does it mean it can't be amended or something? I've never heard that term before. Moreover, where is this in the House? Has it been passed already or is it starting in the Senate?

Also, people who use the phrase "think outside the box" are unequivocally the least likely people in the world to actually "think outside the box."

The base bill needs 60 votes to be amended, which means it is not going to happen. Had he used the bill without immunity, then 60 votes would be needed to INCLUDE immunity and oversight.

It is something you would expect a Republican to do.

Sweet.

I believe that the power under question is the ability to "tap" international calls originating in the US.
As far as immunity goes its to cover the companies in regards to what has already happened. Its not as if they now have the ability to wiretap peoples phones at will with out worry of prosecution. Essentially what they're saying is "We're not going to let you get fucked because you believed the guv when they told you what they were doing was legal."
The most likely reason for them chosing the version they did is because a main part of this is the use of ECHELON which the judiciary commitees version prohibits.
Expanding ECHELON's datamining to target international calls originating from the US is the only form of "illegal wiretapping" that has been uncovered as far as I know. Does anyone know of any that were targeting a single person or line?

Worse it was able to me to roll a shoe to my dog and to have slept with an oyster.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Any lawyer will tell you that. Hell, common sense will tell you that. Otherwise the most common defense would be "I didn't know it was illegal." They broke the law--bottom line. This is ridiculous. The administration and Republicans are just trying to reward them for playing along. It's ridiculous.

the war with Eastasia is a LIE! there is no war at all!

what? oh... sorry, guys. a little too early. i'll come back in about 14 years.

I still find it hard to believe that people still get all pissy, with this MY party is better than yours bullshit. They both suck. If you haven't noticed the once great US of A has become a 2nd world country. Our dollar is in the shitter, our economy belongs to China and Mexico (just look at anything in your damn house I'll wager it's made in one of those two places)

Our country is dying people and it's separatism like this that is to blame. We have been divided into a country of whining, pathetic, pussies, and God forbid that the shit hits the fan because we don't even have the arms to defend ourselves, and our country, from it, whether it's from outside or within.

Don't blame the Republicans without blaming the Democrats also, or vice versa.

We lost our right to Bear Arms, thanks to both.
We lost our Right to Free Speech, thanks to Both (remember Tipper Gore and now Telecom)
We lost our industrial and manufacturing jobs, thanks to both.
Dems raise our taxes, Reps give us NAFTA.

The whole structure of this government and it's powers has been changed, and not for the better.

When the civil war starts, don't look for me, I'll be in the mountains, waiting for all the divided sheep to kick each others asses, then when I hear the call for revolution I'll make my way back down and join the New Americans, the ones that don't care about race or class or religion or gender or whatever the hell else we're divided by now, the ones who realize that only by being united do we stand a prayer in hell.

Long live the Revolution, may it one day grow the fuck up.