I would have gone more with a

ZOOOOOOM!!!

Another one for the Ignore list.

This is the biggest problem. The aliens tend to work for less that what a legal employee would make. Since the employer would rather pay less per hour, they hire the ones who will work for less per hour.

Legal employees loosing out on jobs because they can't live on minimum wage. Much less, less than minimum wage.

Although, the whole hospital thing sounded like bullshit to me. I never saw anyone in a hospital that looked like they were recent imigrants. The few times I visited them while living in CA.

It made more sense that they would stay away from a place like a hospiral to avoid the Border Patrol. The Border Patrol was always driving around even far from the border.

I find your source to be a front group for the right wing.

Fixed that for you.

You're welcome.

So is your point that illegal immigrants are good for our economy and not a drain on the tax payers, or is it that it just isn't as bad as some people think it is?

Personally, my biggest problem is that no matter what illegal immigrants are costing, my tax dollars are paying for people that broke the law to get into the country, with the vast majority not paying paying taxes, and therfore not contribuiting financially into the system. So basically just taking and taking. The same is not recipricated in Mexico or other central american countries if I were to go there and get sick and need an operation.

Didn't know that.

Sorry, but you contest what, precicely? You quoted a rather large chunk of my post and have made no clarification precicely what part you are disagreeing with...

Yes, there is a perfectly rational explanation for that. It goes back to what I talked about as respect being a two-way street, and an immigrant
requiring (by US Law) the ability to read, write and speak English as a condition of emmigration. When someone emigrates to another country, common courtessy means assimilating and integrating into that new society. The primary language of the US (and UK) is English. It is reasonable to expect immigrants (to either country) to be have a sufficient grasp of the language to function within that society. There are places in the UK where steet signs are 'doubled up' and written in Arabic. Things like that do absolutely nothing to encourage people to assimilate or learn English, but only serve to reinforce 'minority communities', and give reasons for not learning English, which, as mentioned before, is a legal requirement in both countries (One moreso than the other) People find that an affront, for the simple reason that it gives the impression that the immigrants do not want to actually assimilate and participate in the overall community of the country. As for persuasion, I'm not trying to persuade you of anything, and you are free to disagree with my opinion as you wish. However, not everything which I am saying, is purely 'opinion', but factual, and facts are not as open to debate as opinions. Facts are either right or wrong.

People directly unaffected by immigration (ie people who have not lost jobs to migrant workers) could 'care' because they feel the hospitality of their home nation is being abused or insulted (by lack of assimilation, which is expected of legal immigrants) However, people who it does affect (like the girl who couldn't get the job at a factory because she couldn't speak Polish) are going to feel very strongly about it. Prejudice is not even the issue, but one of resentment for actual hardships imposed (ie not able to get a job, or, perceived insults or abuses of one's nation's hospitality)

I'll disagree, but purely because I was not talking about factories being closed down. For the record, I am 100% against companies outsourcing their facilities to other countries to save on profits, but, that is not the issue here. The example I mentioned was not of a factory which closed down, but one which was crewed primarily by immigrants from Poland who clearly had not the English-skills to communicate on a professional basis with a British-born English speaker, which resulted in that British-born person being turned away from a job, and that, is a totally unacceptable state of affairs, and is a prime example of how people can be affected by migrant workers, and how they can feel resentment to them, in a way entirely unmotivated by race or ethnicity. Another example, would be a few years back where a group of building contractors in Scotland had their contracts on a half-finished project terminated. Their bosses told them that there simply wasn't any more work for them, yet a week later, the site was being crewed by Polish builders, who would have been working for a fraction of the wages of the original builders. To touch back on your point, yes, it's the 'suits' who took the people's jobs away, but, the manner in which they re-staffed them makes it easy to understand why the original workers would feel unjustly dealt with, and resent the migrant workers. It's also easy to understand why any rational person hearing about such an occurence would sympathise with the original workers.

I never said that they weren't discriminated against, and yes, it would be naive to pretend that race and ethnicity sadly does still play a large part in our society, that was not the point I was illustrating though. I pointed out that many people (Not White Power Radicals) have issues with illegal immigrants for economic reasons which were nothing to do with color (as the OP's comments tried to insinuate that that was the issue) You then pointed out that there are Irish illegal immigrants which do not have the same lies thrown at them, to which I pointed out, that a key difference is not skin color, but their ability to speak English, and pointed out that if you substitute 'Irish' for 'Lithuanian' or 'Latvian', you would have the exact same scenario as with the Hispanic illegal immigrants, as, skin color asside, there is the common factor of not being able to speak English, and the problems that creates.

Sorry, but how can facts be ambiguous? Facts are facts, constant to themselves. Opinions, certainly, can and do change, but facts remain the same regardless of the observer's acceptance of them. I would quite agree that illegal immigrants can bring net value to a nation's economy, by doing work which the native workers either 1) consider is beneath them and refuse to do, or 2) do jobs which native workers will do, but at a reduced salary. However, that does nothing to change the fact that, as mentioned previously, yes, they are paying taxes which they are unable to benefit from. But. The reason they are unable to benefit from those taxes is because they are in the country illegally, and nothing in the world will change that fact. Countries have immigration policies which affect everyone, and which everyone entering the country is expected to adhere to and follow. Those rules do not suddenly no longer apply just because someone cannot afford to immigrate legally, and the suggestion that they shouldn't apply, is nothing but an affront to all those immigrants who do go through the procedures and requirements and still contribute to the local economy when they do so.

Of course I don't. I am well aware of US immigration requirements, as 3 years ago, I nearly did so myself. The cost of something is irrelevent to this issue. Panerai watches are expensive, but that doesn't give someone who can't afford one, the right to put a brick through a jeweller's window and loot one.

I never said anything of the sort, and know the process myself. Don't make suggestions of delusion based on incorrect assumptions about me.

Did you actually read the comment I made where I pointed out that I have no beef with people who want to make a better life for themselves or their families? Here it is again:

Goes back to what I just said about someone looting a jeweller's because they can't afford a nice watch. Just because they can't afford something, that does not give them the right to simply take it. As I said there, and said just now to Zarth, the point is that there are precedures which apply to everyone, and which everyone is expected to follow, and it is about having respect for a country. I also pointed out, that it's no good someone complaining about not having access to social care which their taxes pay for all the time that they are illegal immigrants. If they were legal, then they would have access to those facilities. Also, I think it needs pointing out that it is not actually the illegal immigrants who are complaining, about this lack of access to social care, but a lot of self-loathing white liberals, who for some reason feel that they should 'cut everyone a break', just because the world's 'not being fair'.

So we have no problem with people who come into this country illegally, then acquire false identification? Well who cares if they are constantly breaking the law as long as it doesn't cost to much in health costs.

Srsly, borders and immigration are one of the best tools we have to keep people poor, and protect moneyed interests in the country.

Nearly did so and did so are two very different things. And the effective cost of things in politics is never irrelevant. This isn't a Panerai watch, this is something inelastic. If bread was $2,000 a loaf, yeah it doesn't give someone the right to steal it, but it sure as hell explains why they did. And I never said that it was everyone's right to come here illegally in the first place.

I didn't, that's why I put the if there. It's a small word but it's common knowledge that when you have an "if, then" statement and you fail to prove the "if," it follows that you cannot be the "then."

Illegal immigrants aren't complaining? Hmm... maybe it's because they can't? Or maybe its because they're too busy trying to survive?

Or maybe they are complaining? Day Without Immigrants

And I'm not sure who you're quoting about white liberals or why that's included as somehow necessary to your argument. I don't think "legal reform" = "cutting everyone a break". Actually, I think that's a logical fallacy known as appeal to ridicule.

Refer to someone as "brown" is not the same as "dirty brown illegals".

I'm not surprised about the amount of racist phrases coming from this comments on this website, but is always good to know who is the next on my ignore list.

.. so long, and thanks for all the fish.