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Anti Immigrant Crowd Full Of Shit On The Medical Front

FRIDAY DECEMBER 14 2007 9:00 AM

Submitted by FearTheReaper. Edited By erin_broadley.

TAGS: Illegal Immigration, Health Care

Ah, the dirty illegal immigrant. They are responsible for all of the horrible problems facing our nation today and will soon become the Republicans talking point for the �08 elections. Never mind that the issue usually polls fifth or lower on American�s most important issues, they are brown and most importantly, they can�t defend themselves. The perfect target. What illegal immigrant will be appearing on "Larry King Live" or "20/20" to make their case? Turns out, none. Unfortunately, these pesky things called facts keep getting in the way of the immigrant hating kids arguments. The biggest fallacy is that illegal immigrants are the biggest problem facing our health care system.

The costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering.

Well, that is a load of bullshit. Just take a look at this UCLA study released last month.

Illegal immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries are 50% less likely than U.S.-born Latinos to use hospital emergency rooms in California, according to a study published Monday in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine.

But�but�they are brown and bad. Turns out illegal immigrants don�t like to go to hospitals or doctors because�they are illegal immigrants. Seems they don�t being asked for ID cards, Social Security numbers and their employment history. How any retard could not have figured that out is beyond me. They live in fear, the last place they want to go is to a hospital and answer questions.

"The current policy discourse that undocumented immigrants are a burden on the public because they overuse public resources is not borne out with data, for either primary care or emergency department care," said Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA's School of Public Health and the study's lead author. "In fact, they seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs."

Last year RAND also published a study that indicated illegal immigrants are not as costly as everyone seems to think they are.

A Rand Corp. study published last year in the journal Health Affairs put the cost of healthcare for illegal immigrants nationwide at $1.1 billion a year, excluding care for those younger than 18 and older than 64.

That�s about 11 bucks per household. Now, how much money do you think you save from their cheap labor?

Another 2005 study came to the same conclusion.

Immigrants in the U.S. receive surprisingly little health care - 55% less than native-born Americans -according to a Harvard/Columbia University study that appears in the current issue of the American Journal of Public Health. Immigrant children received particularly low levels of care, 74% less overall than other children.

Another reason we don�t spend very much on illegal immigrants is because we only give them bare minimum care. Due to 1986 Medicaid reforms, illegal immigrants can only receive emergency care that is� necessary to stabilize a patient.� After that, they have to pay. So, basically, we pick up the tab for care that keeps them alive and nothing else.

Oh, and illegal immigrants also pay taxes. What? Yeah, you heard me, you unread donkey. They pay taxes. According to a new Congressional Budget Office report on health care and immigration, illegal immigrants also get hit by the tax man.

The CBO reports that in 2004, undocumented immigrants in Iowa paid between $45.5 million and $70.9 million in state income and sales taxes and New Mexico collected $69 million in income, property, and sales taxes from undocumented immigrants in 2006. Immigrant payment of sales tax is especially important, because it reimburses state and local governments.

They also kick some serious pesos into Social Security and Medicare � and they won�t see a fucking dime of that money.

The estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

In 2004, illegal immigrants contributions came to 10 percent of that year�s surplus. But you keep crying about the brown people, while they work so you can sit your fat ass down at the age of 65. The CBO concluded that between 50 and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes, which means 25 to 50 percent do not. Not exactly what we are led to believe by the anti-immigrant lunatics, is it? Meanwhile,

16.3 percent of Americans are taking a pass on paying taxes. I wonder how many of them complain about illegal immigrants?

You�re going to hear a lot from the Republicans about how horrible illegal immigrants are over the next few months. They are the new gay marriage. They are going to be portrayed as evil, little, welfare queens who are overwhelming our system. But as far as medical care goes, know they are pretty full of shit.

Take a look at who is really skyrocketing the cost of our health care:

A record 47 million Americans did not have health insurance last year, while the percentage of children without insurance rose for a second consecutive year, according to US Census Bureau data released yesterday

Yeah, 47 million Americans is a tad bit more than 10 million illegal immigrants, especially when you factor in the above study claiming illegal immigrants are 50% less likely to seek out care. So, shut your fucking clown holes and fix the real problem first. Then you get to go after the smaller problems.

582 Comments

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... 39

Ms_Magdalena

Minneapolis, MN

February 2007

DEC 14, 2007 03:51 PM

Zarth said:

inkonnu said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

No. The biggest problem that Americans have with immigrants of any kind is that they speak languages other than English. That's what they complain about most. The illegal stuff is just a rationalization, and the "they took our jobs" is hysterical misinformation, much like the "they don't pay taxes," the "they're all on welfare," and the "they're burdening our healthcare system." Those last three statements are all lies, and the fact that they're undocumented doesn't particularly affect anyone but the immigrants themselves. Those lies, and the rationalizations, wouldn't exist for white anglophone immigrants (such as the estimated fifty thousand undocumented Irish in the United States).

It all comes down to the "people like us" syndrome.

Zarth

Seattle, WA

December 2004

DEC 14, 2007 03:54 PM

CodyW said:
CIS article

I found this article very informative.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Yeah, the Center for Immigration Studies isn't exactly a disinterested observer in this particular culture war.

inkonnu

United Kingdom

November 2007

DEC 14, 2007 03:59 PM

Zarth said:

CodyW said:
CIS article

I found this article very informative.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Yeah, the Center for Immigration Studies isn't exactly a disinterested observer in this particular culture war.

But does that make their findings incorrect? Regardless of bias, facts are facts and speak for themselves...

jpaul256

Spring, TX

June 2006

DEC 14, 2007 04:00 PM

Once again, serious analysis is missing from this article.

The finding from Alexander Ortega and colleagues at the school was based on a 2003 telephone survey of thousands of California residents, including 1,317 undocumented Mexicans, 2,851 citizens with Mexican immigrant parents, 271 undocumented Latinos from countries other than Mexico and 852 non-Mexican Latinos born in the United States.

A telephone survey.

As some involved in health care research, I can tell you that the use of surveys for analysis is typically frowned upon. Why? Because (1) the data collected via such means has historically proven to be unreliable (people have a hard time self-reporting health information because of concerns regarding privacy) and (2) respondent surveys related to health care aren't typically necessary. The delivery of health care and the subsequent adjudication and payment of claims is one of the most regulated and documented processes in the country. There is a plethora of hard data stores, computer models, and analytics available to show how our dollars are being spent for most studies. None of those were used in this study.

As for the RAND study, FTR referenced (but failed to recognize) the most salient point in the findings as published.

A Rand Corp. study published last year in the journal Health Affairs put the cost of healthcare for illegal immigrants nationwide at $1.1 billion a year, excluding care for those younger than 18 and older than 64.

And which age groups hold primacy in this country for the amount of money spent on healthcare? You guessed it - those younger than 18 and older than 64.

So, we only spent 1.1 billion on health care for illegal immigrants if you discount those age groups that cost the most to care for. If one were to make such an assertion in a freshman statistics class, one would receive a failing grade for missing the entire point of the class.

It is important to note that this issue should be of grave concern to everyone in the country. Providing quality health care for our citizenry, regardless of immigrant status, should be a high priority in this country. However, the debate needs to be founded on rigorous analysis of verifiable data. A study which relies on data collected via telephone survey - data that, by the way, is four years old - does not meet standard criteria for such analysis.

Zarth

Seattle, WA

December 2004

DEC 14, 2007 04:10 PM

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
No. The biggest problem that Americans have with immigrants of any kind is that they speak languages other than English. That's what they complain about most.

Actually, yes, you're quite right there, that is another reason, but, that in itself is not a racially-based issue, but one of common sense, and again, good manners. If moving to another country, it would make sense (and be polite) to at least have a basic grasp of the primary language. With immigration to the US, the ability to read, write and understand English is an uncontestable requirement. Here in the UK, the requirement is that someone understand English 'to a reasonable degree'. The problem we've had here in the UK, is where people from countries which only just joined the EU (so able to move freely between EU countries) had been staying in the UK prior to their country gaining EU Membership, 'on holiday', and as soon as their native country's gained EU Status, then they were legally allowed to stay, but, having entered the country as tourists, they were able to bypass the legislative requirement for 'reasonable degree' of English understanding. One example of where this is a problem, was recently in a local paper where a girl (British-born) applied for a factory job, but was turned away because she couldn't speak Polish, and the majority of the factory staff were Polish, so yes, while it is quite obvious that she would have trouble communicating with co-workers, they clearly missed the point that as English is the primary language of the UK, she should not have had to accomodate Polish-speakers, rather, they should have been required to speak English... But that's getting off the point...

I contest that it's based off common sense. It may be coincidentally related to common sense, but the initial reaction is a visceral, irrational one. People here hate seeing storefront signs in Spanish. They feel personally affronted. There's no rational reason for for that, and while you may believe otherwise, you'd have a hard time persuading me of your opinion.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
The illegal stuff is just a rationalization

A rationalization which is also factual. if these people moved to the US (or UK for that matter) legally, then they would have legitimate social security details, and be able to gain the benefits from services which their taxes pay for. As above, yes, they are getting the shit-end of the stick, in that they pay taxes which they can't benefit from, but, that's because they are in the country illegally.

So I simply reiterate that their undocumented status, as such, affects no-one but themselves. So why should anyone unaffected by it care? There's no reason for it. Thus, it's a rationalization for a visceral prejudice.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
the "they took our jobs" is hysterical misinformation

For the most part, indeed it is (hense why I made the comment in a sarcastic manner) but, as I pointed out with the issue of the factory worker, there are instances where migrant workers are taking jobs from native workers (mostly low-paid, menial labor which native workers are either 'too proud' to do, or want more money for, and, the migrant workers will work for lower pay) That is not something which can be ignored or marginalized as 'hysterical misinformation'.

Most of those factories that closed down here moved overseas. It was the suits that took our jobs. Therefore, I'm comfortable with marginalizing blaming immigrants for the inconveniences of capitalism as "hysterical misinformation." You're free to disagree, of course.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
much like the "they don't pay taxes," the "they're all on welfare," and the "they're burdening our healthcare system."

Not really, as those statements are indeed all lies with no basis in fact, where as the issues of migrant workers taking jobs from native workers (for working for less pay, or in jobs others feel is 'beneath them') or not being able to speak the country's primary language, are factual.

Again, I dispute that, for the reasons outlined above.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
Those last three statements are all lies, and the fact that they're undocumented doesn't particularly affect anyone but the immigrants themselves. Those lies, and the rationalizations, wouldn't exist for white anglophone immigrants (such as the estimated twenty-five to thirty thousand undocumented Irish in the United States).

The main difference being, that Irish people (unless they only speak Gaelic) actually speak English. Sure, they'd get the same problems of using bogus social security, but, they would at least be speaking English, and that somewhat skews the point. Substitute 'Irish' for 'Lithuanian' or 'Latvian', and you still have 'white' immigrants (because this isn't an issue of ethnicity or race) but they are not speaking English as a primary language, so they would be in a comparable situation to any Hispanic illegal immigrants to the US who cannot speak English either.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but Eastern Europeans are discriminated against here. But skin color is still a big consideration anyway. To pretend otherwise is woefully naive.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:

CodyW said:
CIS article

I found this article very informative.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Yeah, the Center for Immigration Studies isn't exactly a disinterested observer in this particular culture war.

But does that make their findings incorrect? Regardless of bias, facts are facts and speak for themselves...

"Facts" can be ambiguous. I've generally heard that undocumented immigrants bring net value to the American economy, so all that the CIS article shows is that it can be argued either way.

Adroitbeing

I'm lost

September 2003

DEC 14, 2007 04:14 PM

code_red said:

Subrosa said:
So you're saying that I, as a middle-class, professionally educated, uninsured white man, am more of a drain on our national health system than the dirty brown illegals running over our borders?!?!

Racist.

That's a great way to show off that intelligence. Describe some more people in that classy archaic fashion you have chosen to use before, and maybe the insurance fairy will leave you something underneath your pillow. That is more likely to happen then people respecting you for your opinion which you have chosen to display. But hey, at least your educated.

Look, can I request a new feature for the site?

It would invoke when someone selects "REPLY" to a post. A pop up window would appear and ask "Would you like to learn something about this person before you post, because they might be much fucking smarter than you and possess skills in communication, including the fine art of sarcasm that might be overlooked by dumb asses like you!"

Of course, the feature would become double the fun in situations where the sarcastic have been out-dueled by someone even more...sarcastic!

Red_Russian13

Dayton, OH

February 2004

DEC 14, 2007 04:18 PM

While it may be that illegal immigrants do not burden our system as much as Republicans might want us to believe, it doesn't make illegal immigration a good thing, since it's, you know, illegal.

I know, I know. You never said it was a good thing. But your sarcasm seems to suggest otherwise. I don't see the issue; it's illegal. If illegal immigration is so good, then let's make the breaking of the law portion of it legal and it will thus be a moot point. But telling me that they're less of a burden than a bunch of moron politicians make them out to be is not how I'll be convinced. More descriptive, less normative.

I do appreciate your prodigious use of sources on this article though. I can do some reading on my own.

I think our immigration laws need a major overhaul though. A good friend of mine has been trying to enter the US legally for quite some time. He's a good kid, and he's pissed at illegals for breaking the law, but is frustrated at the oppressive difficulty he's had.

Adroitbeing

I'm lost

September 2003

DEC 14, 2007 04:20 PM

Zarth said:

inkonnu said:
Hmm.
I love how the OP's post (quoted or otherwise) kept mentioning 'brown' as a way of insinuating that people's objections to illegal immigrants must be for purely racial objections... Way to undermine a legitimate discussion right off the bat... Fact of the matter, is that the majority (ie not White Power Radicals) of people's problems with illegal immigrants, are economic (Dey took our djuuuurbzzz!!!!) nothing to do with race or ethnicity at all. And of course, the other thing about them being illegal I don't think anyone (beyond White Power Radicals) has a problem with immigrants who do so in the legal manner. I quite agree with the points made that illegals using doctored papers are paying taxes which they can't access, but, that's because, they're illegal. Had they immigrated legally, then they would have full access to the services their taxes paid for. I've got no beef with anyone wanting to make a better life for themself or their family, but at the end of the day, there are procedures which apply to everyone, and which everyone is expected to follow. It's all about having respect for a country, and that respect being a two-way street: Immigrate properly, and all the benefits of being a tax payer will be available.

Bingo and Bizoptly!

inkonnu

United Kingdom

November 2007

DEC 14, 2007 04:21 PM

Zarth said:

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
No. The biggest problem that Americans have with immigrants of any kind is that they speak languages other than English. That's what they complain about most.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
The illegal stuff is just a rationalization

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
the "they took our jobs" is hysterical misinformation

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:
much like the "they don't pay taxes," the "they're all on welfare," and the "they're burdening our healthcare system."

Again, I dispute that, for the reasons outlined above.

inkonnu said:

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but Eastern Europeans are discriminated against here. But skin color is still a big consideration anyway. To pretend otherwise is woefully naive.

inkonnu said:

Zarth said:

CodyW said:
CIS article

I found this article very informative.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Yeah, the Center for Immigration Studies isn't exactly a disinterested observer in this particular culture war.

But does that make their findings incorrect? Regardless of bias, facts are facts and speak for themselves...

"Facts" can be ambiguous. I've generally heard that undocumented immigrants bring net value to the American economy, so all that the CIS article shows is that it can be argued either way.

It's quite late here in the UK, and I am heading to bed, but I will respond to your points in the morning. I didn't want you thinking I was simply ignoring your response.

Red_Russian13

Dayton, OH

February 2004

DEC 14, 2007 04:21 PM

Zarth said:

Most of those factories that closed down here moved overseas. It was the suits that took our jobs. Therefore, I'm comfortable with marginalizing blaming immigrants for the inconveniences of capitalism as "hysterical misinformation." You're free to disagree, of course.

Excellent point.

Adroitbeing

I'm lost

September 2003

DEC 14, 2007 04:26 PM

The best news here is the willingness of the republicans to pick a topic that rationalizes another sliver of their potential constituency. Any voting Hispanics left on the voting "fence" have subsequently made their decision, which only helps the cause; sending the criminals from this administration packing.

luxmeaveritas

Albuquerque, NM

December 2004

DEC 14, 2007 04:50 PM

Do you think it's free to immigrate here legally?

You're deluded if you think it is anything but a prohibitively expensive, excruciatingly slow, and legally complex process. I don't know how it goes in the UK but that's how it is here. Why do you think they do it illegally? Because they're feeling rebellious and want to live life dangerously? That they want to put the lives of their children at risk by commiting an illegal act that could not only put themselves and their families in prison, but worse, they would no longer be able to financially support them? These aren't criminals like rapists or homicidal maniacs or arsonists. These are people who had only one realistic choice or else their families would die. The problem here is not in the fact that they chose to do it the illegal way, it is in the laws themselves. If the same person were to be from Cuba and not Mexico, they would be legal. How does that make any sense? If it is such a crime, why does it matter where you come from?

gcash056

Orlando, FL

October 2004

DEC 14, 2007 04:56 PM

Ya know... if the illegal immigrants want any of our shitty "health" system and idiot "doctors" they're welcome to them.

I've had doctors not even be able to tell me correctly which bones I have broken. That's pretty fucking piss-poor, if you ask me.

If an American doctor told me the Atlantic was wet, I'd have to stick a finger in it before I believed him.

xazapdmytinu

Fort Collins, CO

July 2007

DEC 14, 2007 05:00 PM

KUNGFOO said:

jonkauffman said:
Who cares?

You know, there is this concept, that if you have no interest in the subject being discussed (or nothing intelligent to contribute), you don't have to contribute. It's much better than making stupid comments.

Can somebody get that scene from Bambi with the infamous "Thumper" line off youtube? (I doubt it, disney would hunt down your mother and hold her for ransom if you posted something disney on Youtube...)

My dad used to work at a landscaping company and while he still watched Fox News and reads Tom Clancy his views and knowledge of immigrants make him at least somewhat reasonable in my mind (now all he needs to do is get a job working with Muslims so he'll understand THAT better)

What I'm trying to say is that he's known for a long time that immigrants pay taxes and get very little benefit from them. It's a pretty simple idea...The DMV doesn't do a whole lot of checking to see if you're legal but the IRS will make DAMN sure when you file a tax return that you are OWED something.