FTR, it's excellent that you're reporting the details of the WGA efforts, and the issues. My opinion is that the AMPTP's tactic of rapidly appealing to public sentiment, essentially negotiating by press release, precludes any serious discussion by them. One defense for this is to give notice for mediation, usually calling on the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service (fmcs.gov)., which can seriously reduce their options for slanting the facts. I'm assuming the WGA has previously filed the required notices to the FMCS, and has been working with the FMCS agent assigned to the dispute. Does the current contract have realistic provisions for mediation and arb?

It's not a question of support for the union, fairness, economic impact, or possible inconvenience to people, but finding a workable solution. Sometimes the best option is to accept that one has engaged an adversary with bad manners, and to get some help to level the mahogany table.

For an industry who's raison d'etre is to present fiction to the public, I'm gonna bet that they are incapable of dealing with real reality (as opposed to 44 minute reality); you're not following their script and they will keep crying until some authority figure threatens to pull out the paddle. I would think that having the WGA call in the referees sooner rather than later would sit very well with the public and those non-members directly effected by the action.

They didn't go on strike years ago because they had a contract. This was a contract made in the 80's that just ran out this year. They tried to renegotiate and the studios offered them a bullshit agreement. They also didn't make some of these demands years ago because the studios weren't posting shows online and making a huge profit on them while not paying the writers back in the mid 90's.

It sure would have been nice of them to negotiate residuals on digital downloads back in 1912 when they formed the guild.

Not to derail the context, but Micah Wright is a baaaaad example to use. I knew him when I worked as a writer at Nickelodeon. He wrote some books on his time being in the special forces or some such thing, only to be exposed years later as having never done any of it, never having even been in the military. His fraud upset a hell of a lot of military people, and their families, past and present. He admitted to being one hell of a liar.
Other than that, I agree with you and stand behind everything else. I'd love to be writing again too but this strike needs to happen.

I would love to argue symmantics with you, but I'm a bit sleepy, so I will put this out there.

I AGREE WITH THE DEMANDS THAT THE WGA IS MAKING TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

I ALSO AGREE THAT THE AMPTP HAS DONE NOTHING ILLEAGLE.

FURTHERMORE, THE ARGUMENT THE WGA IS MAKING IS ONE OF OPINION, THE STUDIOS BELIEVE THAT WITHOUT THE WRITERS THERE ARE NO TV SHOWS OR MOVIES, AND WITHOUT THEM [THE STUDIOS] THERE ARE ALSO NO TV SHOWS OR MOVIES BECAUSE THEY BRING EVERYONE TOGETHER, THE WRITERS, THE ACTORS, THE GRIPS AND GAFFERS AND EVERY OTHER ODD JOB NECCESSARY FOR A SHOW OR MOVIE TO BE PRODUCED. SO GUESS WHAT JUST LIKE ANY BUSINESS THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE THAT GET PAYED FAR MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE.

I ran a retail store that posted revenue of $1,000,000 per year on average, my salary was only an amazing $26,000 or 0.026% of the total revenue the store brought in, even though without me, the store wouldnt have been open for business and couldnt have sold anything, except for the fact that without the corporation who aquired the product, built the store, created the marketing materials and ironed out the legal aspects of running that particular business in that particular industry, I wouldnt even have a job to go to, so they did a whole hell of a lot more than I initially gave them credit for, but hey that isn't worth a dime is it...

So, he's good a fiction? He is still a writer who was fucked over. Maybe not the cleanest of people, but he fits the bill.

Point made, though.

A) That is the best run-on sentence of all time. Here's a tip: 15 commas do not a period make.
B) Your comparison is extremely poor. We're not talking about low-level retail employees. We're talking about people who are essential to the process of creating the product at issue here. Your retail store manager would be more analogous to a movie theater ticket taker if we're going to go with this example. The writers would be more like the people who design the products that you sell. It's not the same level of input on the process and it doesn't deserve the same level of compensation.

A lot of interesting points here. Many misinformed.

First on the point of residuals and why we get them when you don't for building custom electronic equipment. It's in the Constitution and it is called copyright.

Next up, why did we wait so long to demand 25 things? As far as the 25 demands goes...you do realize this is a negotiation, right? If we come to the table with one thing, we get nothing. If we have a bunch of shit, we get some, other stuff we don't. A good settlement is when both sides are unhappy. I expect the same here.

Over the years we have had shitty leadership and were often undermined by the DGA. But the real answer is that this is a twenty year contract. They come up every 3 years, but this was a big one. In the forties we struck to form a union. Big one. In the sixties we struck for pension and health. In the eighties we struck for home video residuals. Now we have the internet. We didn't suddenly "throw a hissy fit" We are striking at the exact time we should to protect out interests online.

The idea that we would put the entire town out of work over a few bucks is laughable. The reason the Guild voted 90% for a strike is because this is literally the end of the line for writing if we don't get it. The internet will be tv in 5 to 10 years. There will be no broadcast tv. Everything will be coming through the internet, so if we don't create a formula for that, we make no money. We have decided to die or live now as a union instead of dying slowly over years. I'm all for it.

As far as the BTL guys, I'd smile but a lot of them are being dicks. Sorry. They need to read up because I don't like taking shit from people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Many writers want us to be very kind to the BTL guys and I am with the ones who treat us with respect. But they would walk out in a second and not give a shit about us. The certainly are good at bringing up what they can and can't do on a set because of union rules, but when a union stands up and fights, they get mighty pissed off.

This is a middle class strike. The majority of writers are middle class and we would like to stay that way. We don't want to end up like the guys represented by the IA, who get fucked in their ass during every negotiation.

as an animator...i don't get JACK SHIT. we all got fucked in the 50's when hannah barbera threatened to blacklist cel painters and inkers if they didn't vote against the unions and for outsourcing. now animation sucks.

animation writers and ANIMATORS deserve to be in the union and recognition for our work. it's insulting that our work is considered lesser somehow when it takes as many if not more man hours to complete.

in any event i support the strike.

solidarity.

It's not considered lesser. You just got fucked back in the day. We are chipping away slowly. Family Guy, Simpsons, etc.

A paycheck is all i get, I dont get paid every time the show airs, i'm not part of the team, i don't get more money if the show does well, I'm there as a daily hire employee.

screen writers are the only industry that i can think of that get paid for a product, and then paid every time it gets used .... it would seem ridiculous if these principles were applied to, lets say, hammers, I buy a hammer and every time i am being paid to sink nails i have to pay the hammer designer a few cents a strike?

hopefully soon the actors contracts, that state that after six weeks hiatus, they need to be paid full rate or be fired, will force some sort of actual negotiation. Its gona cost alot more to rehire the cast of breakout shows now that the stars of the shows are established.

/knows he spels bad ... sorry speling nazi ... im a grip not a writer
//knows about unemployment
///would like to get back to living my life not just surviving
//// is happy he still has a few months of SG membership ... for great debate and pretty ladies

pssst .... there is only one gaffer per crew .... well maybe a gaffer and a rigging gaffer .... his/her crew are called set lighting technicians.

Actually, it's not common at all for people to instead get paid a lump sum of money, to take a small amount of money for each product that is sold. Every profession does it. Hell, the woman who designed the cambells soup can logo took like..1 penny I think per can produced way back when? Now whoever is gets those pennies, is one fucking rich as person. (That story/facts could be off, but it's just an example)

Hell. I've done plenty of things where people offer me one of two things: 500$ cash in my pocket, or a 1$ for each person you uses their product. You have to think long term. And your analogy is completely off. It'd be more like "You design a hammer, and every time someone buys that hammer, you make X% of it" if you make a good hammer, you make a lot of money. If it sucks, and no one makes money, you don't make shit.

It sucks you lost your job, but honestly, I don't know diddly squat about writing, or the WGA, but you're just coming off as stupid.

So you're not aware of the actors, directors, producers...

And the entertainment industry, as a whole, is unique because of the nature of the money involved. Yes, they've managed to turn their product into something that can be sold in stores, but that's only maybe 30 years old on movies and TV didn't really generate sales until DVDs came along. Normally, the first money is in playing the product for audiences. Which is to say, using it. And it's only fair that the creators make some bank on that.

Dude, the six week contracts that you speak of our for producers, most of whom our writers. It will not force is to cave if they cancel the contract. If we cave, we will be totally fucked in five years.

We are not the only people who make money for creating something as long as the product makes money.

Songwriters.
Playwrites
Novelists.
on and on.

Do you think a band should not make money for each album they sell?

It's in The Constitution. You're going to have to change that.

If the strike is still on, you PM me and I will pay for your membership to be extended. And I'm sorry, but this strike will be going on for a while.

FTR on copyright,

Hi. I think your idea that copyright law somehow makes your products different and more special than mine is incorrect and actually pretty much the opposite of reality. We both know the reason for copyright and intellectual property law and the whole motivation for providing protections for them in the constitution is that intellectual property is not a tangible thing (unlike a physical script or a printed book or an electronical doodad that you can pass between two peoples' hands). So the aim of copyright law is actually to hopefully put your type of products on the same par as my type of products, to make them legally tangible so that they can be legally bought and sold just like real physical items. In other words, it's thanks to copyright law that there is NO FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between the products I make and sell and the products you make and sell. Now that you have a legally tangible product thanks to the constitution you are welcome to sell it or lease it or give it away according to whatever terms you like and no one can take you to court and force you to sell it for any less than one hundred billion dollars up front and 100% of the gross if that's what you want to sell it for. In fact, there's no particular reason why terms of sale have to include internet residuals or anything in particular, as you obviously must know. Most everyday people who sell stuff don't make their clients sign contracts that obligate them to share profits earned from those products. However, I think it's your right to do so, and considering the way profits are usually shared around in hollywood, I do think you should probably do whatever you can to get a fair piece of the pie. As a matter of fact I'd probably do it with my stuff as well if I thought I had any reasonable chance of getting my clients to go along with the idea without laughing their heads off. It's a real good idea if you want to get rich.

You yourself quoted about work for hire, and so I assume you know what that means. Really work for hire was mostly what I was talking about, which I hoped the use of words like "salary" and "no share in ownership" would have implied.

Maybe what I do for a living isn't the best example. Probably to make an analogy you're more likely to accept I should say software developer. I know at least a dozen, only one of whom that i can think of is lucky enough and high up enough in her company to have a contract that gets her a share of sales. I hope you're not going to tell me that what you write is somehow legally more specially protected than what they write. None of these guys care because, hell, they're making 60 grand anyway, which is crazy good money to the normals.