Yes, I was feeling strangely and maybe prematurely jolly when I heard the news upon waking up today.

Doesn't this fall under the category of further proof that the Bush regime wants Iraq stay unstable? I mean, they're doing a famously good job of it, it must be on purpose.

The bottom line is this... we are a foreign, occupying force and thus by definition, an incinderary presence.

No, that doesn't follow. It's the same fallacy behind religion ("If life sucks so much, there must be a reason!").

I have heard the argument advanced that the US is deliberately backing weaker political players in Iraq in order to even out the forces and thus encourage an equitable political settlement. The logic of that is possibly sound, actually, but it strikes me as too sophisticated for the bozos in this administration to have come up with.

I can't get why ANYONE is surprised that there is sectarian violence in Iraq. It has only been a united country for what, 100 year? Maybe 150? Before that, most of the country was cut along tribal lines, except for the major trading cities. It is sheer arrogance on the part of the US to think we can stop millenia of tribal violence because ole Bushy-Boy wants to play Wyatt Earp.

How terribly surprising. If people invaded my country I'd fight too.

Actually, for most of the last five thousand years, Iraq possessed one of the two most advanced civilizations on the planet. It's true it's slid downhill a lot since then, but to speak of "millennia" of tribal violence is inaccurate.

With that caveat, your statement isn't otherwise particularly problematic, though.

I for one support my country's policy, and I am CERTAIN that it was a measured, rational response to a variety of socio-political issues, and not a case of "fuck this, we're getting creamed, let's get the fuck out and leave them to it."

Honest.

its interesting how much the media likes to play up the violence in iraq. Im here. not going to say where, but im in iraq. The media tells you what they want you to hear. yes, there is violence in iraq. yes people are being killed. but its nowhere near as bad as its made out to be. its actually kind of interesting. yea, a lot of the people dont like us, but theyre getting tired of outside groups killing them while trying to kill us. Iraqis will just walk up and tell us where ieds are sometimes. just because a tactic works in one area, doesnt mean it will work in others. in Ramadi, the U.S. worked with tribal leaders and now, while they dont love us, they work with us in fighting al queda. I dont like this war. we shouldnt be here, but were here now. a massive pullout wont work everywhere. Dont listen to the generals. dont listen to the fucking media. listen to what the soldiers on the ground say. were here, doing this shit. everyone spins this fucking war to what they want to say. Truth is living here. not coming here for a few days, or maybe a week and then writing what your opinion on something you have not lived. you wanna tell me how bad this war is going, and you have not really lived it? talk to a soldier on the ground, we cant tell you a lot of what we do, but damnit, youll get more truth from us than a reporter.

Considering im currently in the military and everyone is intitled to their own opinion. The situation in Iraq has improved from what ive seen and what the people from the country have told me themselves. The conditions of the country have gotten better since the arrival of troops. Yes the down fall is people sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and so on get set to other country. You have to take the fact that they did decide to join the military. The thing that sucks the most due to the news is that they dont show what progress has been made in the country. News channels only show violence and what will get them ratings. null

I spent a year there and don't feel like we did any good.

I look forward to the war ending.

Isn't it about time we find something better to do with our time?

Dude, I am a vet, I am a contractor now, though not in Iraq. The statistics are there, they are fact: the murder rate in Iraq is higher, there are more deaths and more problems than there were before we "liberated" Iraq. Yes we do some good in some parts, yes we help some schools, and other nice things. but the bottom line is as long as the US has any presence in the middle east there is going to be violence against and around us.
The media is fucked. you have to be on the ground to know what it is like, I agree with that.
Seriously though, our arrogance has completely fucked up that place and our own country in the process. I mean, call me crazy but I think that the billions, possibly trillions of dollars spent in Iraq could have really done some good in the US. Just maybe.
If we wanted to do some good in Iraq we should have lifted sanctions against a guy we armed, supported and put in power so his people wouldn't starve.
And everyones experience there is different but we need to be gone from there. Sadly, we really fucked up by going in the first place.

Ahh. My mistake. I think I confused it with some of the Post-British Empire forced-together countries. I apologise.

You're not entirely wrong; Iraq became a country as a result of the post-WW1 sorting-out of the (dead) Ottoman Empire into countries, by (in large part) the British and French Empires. The US had a hand in it, IIRC, but it was not a large one.

I wouldn't say that the point of staying in Iraq is to keep it unstable. Plainly put we have a vested interest in Iraq. Or rather, the Bush Administration does. I don't doubt that if we pulled out tomorrow there might be a spike in violence but once they realized they had to fend for themselves they would grow up. Sure there would be a shit load of inequities, but I'm pretty confident that can't be achieved even with our continued pressence.

The Bush administration, and really the entire republican party, want to keep on good terms with Iraq so that, if they win the election next November, they can start moving ahead with Operation "Bomb, Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" as John McCain so elegantly belted out.

Now I'm all for having a diplomatic relationship with Iraq, we certainly need the street cred in the middle east, but is a military presence the answer? No, a military presence has the clear message that we are at war. Pulling our troops out of Iraq isn't throwing a baby out into the woods, it's letting the baby out into the yard to get some exercise and self reliance. The constant patrolling and probing have got to be tiresome on both sides.

The fucked up thing is that one of the many intentions of the War was to bring Saddam Hussein to justice but what that did was handed power to dozens of regional warlords and insurgents, so instead of having to deal with one guy killing people you'll dealing with a whole bunch, and whatever deal you make with Warlord A isn't necessarily cool with Insurgent B...especially with all this middle man crap.