• commentary
  • TUESDAY OCTOBER 30 2007 12:00 AM

The Dangers of Ron Paul



I'm actually starting to view Ron Paul's existence as dangerous. He's not a joke anymore. We can't go oh-funny-ha-ha-Ron-Paul-supporters-lol, because they're so pervasive, so confrontational, and so one-sidedly ignorant that they become, as representatives of a larger issue, dangerous. He's a real threat to discourse and compromise in American political culture.

Earlier tonight, I went to a Halloween party that was particularly and brazenly insufferable. There was no beer, the music sucked, there were a grand total of ten people there, and each one of them (including my friends) was a stuck-up snob.

The night essentially ended with a heated argument with a friend of a friend, and I mean it was a doozy. The friend of a friend, who is a Ron Paul supporter, insists that the Federal Reserve (which was a decentralizing institution) is a pinnacle of centralized control. That "The Banks", in this case an abstract and horrifying specter of the impending doom that awaits us all, control The Dollar, a fantastic and revolutionary idea to be had for sure, and that all money that we spend goes back to the banks, which as we all know is the basic principle - a self-contained, recyclous process - and that "The Banks" controlling The Dollar equates to "The Banks" controlling me. And he argued that the Federal Reserve should be eradicated because it connects "The Banks" to The Dollar in a horrifying way, and is a fascism.

My response was this: What if we get rid of the Federal Reserve? What would happen to "The Banks?" They'd stay put. They wouldn't go anywhere, and would operate unfettered. However, there would be absolutely nothing preventing them from monopolizing and putting an even greater fascist control over the dollar - after all, the Federal Reserve is fed by twelve regional banks by law, and if we remove the Reserve, we remove the principle of the separation of banks. Essentially, it would be a vehicle to one huge horizontally integrated Superbank, a singularity and thus a far bigger threat of fascism.

He responded by telling me I don't know how the economy works. He stated that everyone in America is controlled by the banks systems, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I responded by stating that everyone in America is controlled by Martians, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I went on to say that Ron Paul is a fascist.

He laughed at me.

I said, no seriously. If Ron Paul is elected President, how will his policies be implemented? The Congress is controlled largely by moderate Democrats, and will be for a good six-or-so years, and any extreme right-wing policies that he would attempt to implement, including his horrific privatization enterprise (talk about economic fascism), would be cast aside. They would not become law. And if Ron Paul runs his platform on eliminating the Federal Reserve and completely overhauling the economy, any attempt to implement it would be dead in the water. Even if it was the right thing to do - which, it should be said, it is not - it still wouldn't be ushered through by a largely democratic Congress. I asked him if this made sense, and he nodded and started to say BUT-

And what would happen then, I continued. One of two things would happen. On the one hand, Ron Paul would sell out his political beliefs and his fierce and vocal following (the numbers of which, it would have turned out, weren't imaginary) by moderating his viewpoints and engaging in active political discourse. On the other, he would circumnavigate the Courts and the Congress and implement them anyway. In other words, he'd be a dictator.

Why else would you run for President on a platform that so few people recognize as cognizant thought? Why else would you attempt to be the leader of the free world, and representative of 200 million people, if your political views only cater explicitly to less than twenty percent of them? (The statistic, of course, was enlarged to fit his egomaniacal assertion that these polls do not show Ron Paul's support realistically. Ha-ha-ha.) If he had any hope of putting his promises of overhaul of the entire United States economy into practice, he would have to do it himself, without approval from the Courts or the Congress. And that, I told my friend's friend, is the most severe form of fascism.

And in the face of this pure logic, the poor guy went apeshit. He spat at me. He told me I was blind. He yelled and screamed obscenities claiming that I was the problem. And quite frankly, I was shocked. I hadn't expected this kind of action at a simple Halloween party.

He was, in his overblown Paultarded response, emblematic of a larger problem that in a way, we should thank Ron Paul for illuminating us to. He is the explicit representation of the total and complete lack of even the willingness to engage in political discourse in the United States.

Many Ron Paul supporters point to the fact that he is endorsed by both extreme Liberals and extreme Republicans as a disproof of this. They say, "How can he be poisonous to discourse if he is endorsed so readily by both Democrats and Republicans? Is he not a unifier?" Again, discounting completely the imaginary numbers they assign to his popularity among voters, there's a simple answer that is deeply rooted in complex political history.

The assertion that since Ron Paul is endorsed by both parties that he is a symbol of unification can be summed up by analyzing what qualifies, to a Ron Paul supporter, multi-party political endorsement. To them, the two-party system can be summed up through the following crude, Microsoft Paint-created diagram:



They think the only intersection between the beliefs of Liberals and Conservatives occurs at the state of moderation. That somehow, since Paul is endorsed by both Liberals and Democrats, he represents all parts of the political spectrum instead of just the Conservative agenda. Which is, of course, wrong. And it is an interesting problem to consider. Why do so many self-proclaimed (or otherwise) Liberals even give Ron Paul a second of their time? He stands for "States' Rights", privatization, opposition to Roe v Wade and any number of other policies and beliefs that, in any other vessel, they'd scoff at and deride.

The problem is in the diagram. They view the political spectrum as a bar, with two sides and two extremes. On the left are the Extreme Liberals, completely and totally isolated from everyone else; in the middle are the Moderates, who are willing to work together, and on the right are the Extreme Conservatives, also completely isolated and left to their own devices.

The real diagram looks something like this:



It is amazing how similar, historically, the Radical Left and the Radical Right have acted. Their actions, beliefs, and causes overlap so frequently that it is often impossible to discern the difference between the two.

Take for instance the Weathermen. They were a leftist organization in the mid-to-late '60s that began as a simple protest organization, printing fliers, organizing rallies, etc. But as they became more and more radical, they became more and more violent, until during the infamous Days of Rage, they became purely a militant organization. Their end came when the dynamite that several prominent leaders were making went off accidentally, killing three.

They were a leftist group, to be certain. But they were exceedingly militant, in many ways without regard to human life.

Now take for instance the individuals throughout history who have taken it upon themselves to prevent abortions from occuring. They often stand in front of clinics, refusing to let people inside, they hold up violent images of mutilated fetuses to protest; they cause general Constitutional civil unrest.

But some resort to violence, even blowing clinics straight off the face of the planet. Complete and utter disregard for human life that they claim to protect.

Do I see any difference between those two types of people?

No.

They are merely two examples, and there are countless more (for instance, the dictatorships - some Leftist (like Castro), some Right-Wing (like Hitler), but all dictatorships nonetheless, and the most extreme form of extremism, so to speak. But they serve the basic purpose to illustrate my point that the political spectrum is not a road, or a bar, but a circle, and an endless one. There are two points at which the political ideals meet. And Ron Paul supporters meet at the very bottom.

They are all extremists. Most are hipsters. Most are arrogant. (As all extremists and radicals tend to be.) And because they view the political spectrum as a straight line, and because they see both ends of the spectrum endorsing this candidate, they see him as a moderate of some kind; as someone who can bring everyone together under his kindly smile.

Which is why, when one points out Ron Paul's flaws or asserts that he has no chance of winning, or makes note of his obvious insanity (Thank you, FearTheReaper, your services shall not go unnoticed), his supporters become more and more vehement. Owing to the fact that they see him as a political umbrella, encompassing many different viewpoints, they see those who do not agree with his policies as being unfair or irrational. They're quick to anger with someone they perceive as not "getting it" or being, in their eyes, unreasonable in their opposition to the candidate.

Like that friend of a friend.

It's a tremendous danger to the American political system to act in the juvenile, vindictive right-or-wrong manner that Ron Paul's most vigorous supporters do. Flooding message boards. Spitting at those who disagree with them.

American politics are based on the simple principle of compromise. That two (or more) bodies can come together and make a deal, substituting some of the more radically Liberal policies for some of the more moderate Conservative, etc etc etc. Ron Paul supporters consistently refuse to even acknowledge the legitimacy of opinions that aren't their own. (Which is especially interesting when you meet Ron Paul advocates who vigorously endorse a three-party system. How in God's name will they accommodate two other parties when they refuse to entertain any and all opposition as being logical or true?)

Ron Paul is a threat - or at the very least, an emblem of a threat - to American politics. He embodies everything that's wrong with the modern political assertion that we never compromise and never negotiate, not with terrorists, not with anyone. If you throw out the fact that he is a complete and utter lunatic, that itself is enough to convince you not to vote for him, but to ignore him completely and hope he goes away by the middle of next year.

But if that doesn't work, you could always mock him.

Formus knows, in his heart, the right thing to do.

 

Previous

PAGE: 

1 ... 

4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8

 ... 14

Next

Comments
TommyRocket

TommyRocket

Brooklyn, NY
August 2006

OCT 30, 2007 12:36 PM

Formus said:

There is nothing remotely democratic about representative government when 300+ million people are being represented by 500+ reps. 300 million people do not engage in conversation. Democracy was never meant to function on that scale.


Here are two problems with that assertion. Representatives, by very definition, only represent their constituents. Not everyone in the country. Besides, between local, state (which does exist, no matter what Ron Paul may say), and federal governments, the number of representatives is way more than 500. Way more. More like 500 thousand.



500 would be in reference to the electoral college, which we learned [again] in 2000 will totally disregard the popular vote.



from NARA:

There are 538 members of the Electoral College. How could that number change without amending the Constitution?

The number of electoral votes is set at 538, based on 435 members of the House of Representatives and 100 members of the Senate, plus 3 electoral votes for the District of Columbia under the 23rd Amendment. The Electoral College could become larger if a new State were admitted into the union (adding two new Senators and one or more Representatives until the next redistricting), or if the House of Representatives expanded. The size of the House is set by law, not by the Constitution (2 U.S.C. 2).

Toku666

Toku666

Columbus, OH
May 2004

OCT 30, 2007 12:37 PM

So...

When people quote historically from a time when there was not a single US currency, and before the Federal Reserve even existed, and try to tie it to current issues dealing with a single US currency and the Federal Reserve, do they realize what they're doing?

In other news: Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.

erleichda

erleichda

Germany
May 2003

OCT 30, 2007 12:40 PM

SebastianCrump said:
and maybe this: zeitgeist



Thirsty now. Need drink.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

OCT 30, 2007 12:41 PM

Toku666 said:
So...

When people quote historically from a time when there was not a single US currency, and before the Federal Reserve even existed, and try to tie it to current issues dealing with a single US currency and the Federal Reserve, do they realize what they're doing?



No, they don't. They have little to no understanding of our history that led us to where we are today.

Even the great Ron Paul has no understanding of what life was like:


"We didn't have it (Social Security) until 1935. I mean, do you read stories about how many people were laying in the streets and dying and didn't have medical treatment?...Prices were low and the country was productive and families took care of themselves and churches built hospitals and there was no starvation."

Toku666

Toku666

Columbus, OH
May 2004

OCT 30, 2007 12:43 PM

I believe that what the country experienced during the Great Depression was not starvation.

It was a lack of will.

RON PAUL '08 FUCK DA HATERS!!!

freshprncebelair

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD
June 2004

OCT 30, 2007 01:47 PM



I think a lot of people don't like the Democrats are are so happy a Republican (who is really a pure Libertarian)



Ron Paul deviates from Libertarian philosiphy on more than a couple counts. Notably:
-He is extremely protectionist and closed border
-Anti-Abortion


It is amusing because the Libertarians strike me as the people who would be the first to withhold with money. The same people who call for business to run the world and the same people who would abuse it IMO, because they're cause is rooted in one thing: Greed.



First of all, Americans give more of their money to charity by GDP than any other country, no doubt in part due to higher take home pay.

Second of all, what would happen is most likely that a "libertarian paradise" would see small, semi-socialistic groups of people who would indeed share resources and help people out. Unfortunately, the problem would be that these groups would tend to exist as they already do, and would be class and geographically divided. So rich people would group together in their nice neighborhoods and so on and so forth. The problem is that wealth would not traverse geographic or class bounds (more than likely). So it's a problem if you believe that one of the government's duties should be to redistribute wealth evenly.

jermhawk

jermhawk

Tidioute, PA
December 2004

OCT 30, 2007 02:45 PM

As I stated before I was a Ron Paul supporter. I agree with him on the federal reserve needing to be abolished and return to a siver standard.
Being a seperatist I prefer to make my own decisions and get quite angry when someone requires me or anyone else to do something not in my interest even if they have good intentions.
I also get rather pissed when someone tries to pry their way into my private life or take away or limit any right or civil liberty whether it pertains to me or not.
I see Ron Pauls stance on abortion, racisim, and religion as hipocritical. If he believed in law, freedom and civil liberties as defined in the Constitution (as his voting record would have you believe) his stances on the last three issues would be reversed.



briansocal

briansocal

Pomona, CA
January 2006

OCT 30, 2007 03:50 PM

I kind of see people here laughing and writing Ron Paul off, yet they spend a lot of time on a "fringe" candidate that has no chance of winning!
Clearly, Ron Paul has supporters in every city, and to get a true feeling of who they are, shouldn't you attend a meeting?
I have been to a few Ron Paul events and here is a list of who is there.

60% college students, the more intellectual type
20% entire families (parents, and teenage kids)
20% average working single people (ages 21-65)

In our Ron Paul group theres a mix of ethnicities, maybe 50% White, 30% Asian, 20% Hispanic, as far as who supports him.
The only supporter in our group whom I thought was slightly Conservative or Right Wing, was an older gentleman, probably 65.
I was a registered Democrat or Independent in previous years and switched to Republican to vote for Paul.

And to the author, discussing politics or religion with other people who feel strongly about their beliefs, can sometimes cause negative results. You made a bad move opening up such a topic at a party.
I have received far worse from Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, etc. One Ron Paul incident, and you jump onto the anti bandwagon... Typical.

I am not really anti- any of the candidates, some people like certain things about Obama, or Romney, it doesn't mean you have to hate them.

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

OCT 30, 2007 04:04 PM

briansocal said:
I kind of see people here laughing and writing Ron Paul off, yet they spend a lot of time on a "fringe" candidate that has no chance of winning!
Clearly, Ron Paul has supporters in every city, and to get a true feeling of who they are, shouldn't you attend a meeting?
I have been to a few Ron Paul events and here is a list of who is there.

60% college students, the more intellectual type
20% entire families (parents, and teenage kids)
20% average working single people (ages 21-65)


Wow, your group of like 50 people so totally represents the opinions of the entire American public. Oh wait, no it doesn't. It represents one fucking percent.

In our Ron Paul group theres a mix of ethnicities, maybe 50% White, 30% Asian, 20% Hispanic, as far as who supports him.


But...no black people, huh? Well that makes sense.

The only supporter in our group whom I thought was slightly Conservative or Right Wing, was an older gentleman, probably 65.


So what? Ron Paul is still a Conservative. He's managed to trick you into thinking he's a centrist. He is not. He is a Conservative in nearly every aspect. Immigration. Education. Abortion. Guns. He is not a liberal, he is not a Centrist. He is a typical Republican attempting to mask himself as a Libertarian and a moderate and tricking you and others into believing him.

And to the author, discussing politics or religion with other people who feel strongly about their beliefs, can sometimes cause negative results.


You're right, we should never discuss politics, especially in a democracy.

I have received far worse from Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, etc. One Ron Paul incident, and you jump onto the anti bandwagon... Typical.


Typical? Stop playing the victim. I was on the anti-Ron Paul bandwagon before I ever got spat at by an ignoramus. The article is not really about Ron Paul's policies except at the beginning; the article is about the rabidity of his followers and their danger on the whole to political discourse. Nevermind that he's insane. His followers are rabid, confrontational, and politically obstructionist. His candidacy has become the perfect example of the inability to compromise that has run rampant in our modern political system. Another good one is the Wisconsin state budget, which was six months overdue when it finally passed due to bickering and lack of compromise. I'd have written about it but it's a local issue; Ron Paul isn't so he's the better example.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

OCT 30, 2007 04:06 PM

Fuck it.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

OCT 30, 2007 04:25 PM

emotedcreations said:
I'm surprised you made sense out of that. I could only deduce off the cusp ramblings.


I'm increasingly suspicious that he started this entire thread with the express intention in his mind of getting into precisely these arguments.

Understand, that's not a criticism - I for one approve wholeheartedly.

I do, however, want to take this opportunity to register my disagreement with the contention that American political discourse is becoming degraded and that political compromises are somehow becoming more difficult as a result of this degraded and polarized discourse.

Viewed from a historical perspective, cultlike loonball third party and independent candidacies have been a feature of American politics for nearly as long as we've had a party system at all. Ron Paul is little different in this respect from Nader or Perot, and you can go back a good deal farther to unearth their half-forgotten antecedents, if you're of a mind to.

Secondly, and again from a historical perspective, political discourse in the United States have often been a good deal uglier than it is today. And when it hasn't been, it has usually indicated a consensus among elites to dominate and exploit the silenced and disenfranchised, so it's not as if a seemly decorum in politics necessarily maps well onto our most shining moments as a nation.

In that sense, therefore, viewing Ron Paul as a threat, in my own assessment, accords him a significance out of proportion to reality. The Republic has weathered far worse in its past.

After all, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, you know.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

OCT 30, 2007 04:32 PM

Zarth said:
After all, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, you know.



WHAT? HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and I agree with this completely.

Zarth said:

emotedcreations said:
I'm surprised you made sense out of that. I could only deduce off the cusp ramblings.


I'm increasingly suspicious that he started this entire thread with the express intention in his mind of getting into precisely these arguments.

Understand, that's not a criticism - I for one approve wholeheartedly.

I do, however, want to take this opportunity to register my disagreement with the contention that American political discourse is becoming degraded and that political compromises are somehow becoming more difficult as a result of this degraded and polarized discourse.

Viewed from a historical perspective, cultlike loonball third party and independent candidacies have been a feature of American politics for nearly as long as we've had a party system at all. Ron Paul is little different in this respect from Nader or Perot, and you can go back a good deal farther to unearth their half-forgotten antecedents, if you're of a mind to.

Secondly, and again from a historical perspective, political discourse in the United States have often been a good deal uglier than it is today. And when it hasn't been, it has usually indicated a consensus among elites to dominate and exploit the silenced and disenfranchised, so it's not as if a seemly decorum in politics necessarily maps well onto our most shining moments as a nation.

In that sense, therefore, viewing Ron Paul as a threat, in my own assessment, accords him a significance out of proportion to reality. The Republic has weathered far worse in its past.

bodymist

bodymist

I'm lost
May 2007

OCT 30, 2007 04:50 PM

PrayToMyPistol said:

bodymist said:

FreakPirate said:
Is there a convenient list of Ron Paul supporters on the site so I can start axeing them from my friends list?


do you even know anything about Ron Paul other than what you read here in between jerking off? i'm not in agreement with all of his policies either, but for once i'd like to see one of you ignorant little dilletants come up with an alternative candidate. at least for christ sakes if you're going to bash Dr. Paul and the people who support him, come up with something reasonably intelligent to say, something that can be reasonably debated instead of all this infantile banter about cults and crazies. like i said earlier, i don't fully agree with everything Paul has to say and i doubt that most of his constituency does either but, as of now, i'm planning to vote for him. who are YOU going to vote for? do any of you even know? i know that ignorant cynicism happens to be in vogue these days but i think the issue of our country's next election deserves a bit more prudent consideration. i'm sure all the iraqis getting tortured and run over by humvees would agree. let's hear some constructive dialog about this shit.



And yes all we do over here is run people over with our humvees. Also Tortureing kids, women and old people is also a way too pass time. puke



for one, i never blamed the troops themselves for these things happening. i'm remarking on the fact that the fighting of a war of this nature, just like in vietnam, is going to foster collateral damage and misplaced violence. now on the issue of the vehicular manslaughter taking place over there, i was told by someone who's served in iraq that it was standard procedure for blackwater operatives to never stop for human traffic and that this ongoing practice was responsible for a significant portion of the victims there. i've never understood why you guys take it so personally when someone is critical of the war. i mean, are you that attached to it? i suppose, judging by your chosen moniker, that perhaps you are

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

OCT 30, 2007 05:09 PM

Do you have a link about Blackwater running people down? Or is it just hearsay?

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

OCT 30, 2007 05:12 PM

emotedcreations said:
Do you have a link about Blackwater running people down? Or is it just hearsay?



It was written by a former soldier, not sure if it was on a blog or in a letter, but he was explaining why Blackwater was undermining the war effort. Don't know where to find it now.

Previous

PAGE: 

1 ... 

4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8

 ... 14

Next