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  • TUESDAY OCTOBER 30 2007 12:00 AM

The Dangers of Ron Paul



I'm actually starting to view Ron Paul's existence as dangerous. He's not a joke anymore. We can't go oh-funny-ha-ha-Ron-Paul-supporters-lol, because they're so pervasive, so confrontational, and so one-sidedly ignorant that they become, as representatives of a larger issue, dangerous. He's a real threat to discourse and compromise in American political culture.

Earlier tonight, I went to a Halloween party that was particularly and brazenly insufferable. There was no beer, the music sucked, there were a grand total of ten people there, and each one of them (including my friends) was a stuck-up snob.

The night essentially ended with a heated argument with a friend of a friend, and I mean it was a doozy. The friend of a friend, who is a Ron Paul supporter, insists that the Federal Reserve (which was a decentralizing institution) is a pinnacle of centralized control. That "The Banks", in this case an abstract and horrifying specter of the impending doom that awaits us all, control The Dollar, a fantastic and revolutionary idea to be had for sure, and that all money that we spend goes back to the banks, which as we all know is the basic principle - a self-contained, recyclous process - and that "The Banks" controlling The Dollar equates to "The Banks" controlling me. And he argued that the Federal Reserve should be eradicated because it connects "The Banks" to The Dollar in a horrifying way, and is a fascism.

My response was this: What if we get rid of the Federal Reserve? What would happen to "The Banks?" They'd stay put. They wouldn't go anywhere, and would operate unfettered. However, there would be absolutely nothing preventing them from monopolizing and putting an even greater fascist control over the dollar - after all, the Federal Reserve is fed by twelve regional banks by law, and if we remove the Reserve, we remove the principle of the separation of banks. Essentially, it would be a vehicle to one huge horizontally integrated Superbank, a singularity and thus a far bigger threat of fascism.

He responded by telling me I don't know how the economy works. He stated that everyone in America is controlled by the banks systems, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I responded by stating that everyone in America is controlled by Martians, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I went on to say that Ron Paul is a fascist.

He laughed at me.

I said, no seriously. If Ron Paul is elected President, how will his policies be implemented? The Congress is controlled largely by moderate Democrats, and will be for a good six-or-so years, and any extreme right-wing policies that he would attempt to implement, including his horrific privatization enterprise (talk about economic fascism), would be cast aside. They would not become law. And if Ron Paul runs his platform on eliminating the Federal Reserve and completely overhauling the economy, any attempt to implement it would be dead in the water. Even if it was the right thing to do - which, it should be said, it is not - it still wouldn't be ushered through by a largely democratic Congress. I asked him if this made sense, and he nodded and started to say BUT-

And what would happen then, I continued. One of two things would happen. On the one hand, Ron Paul would sell out his political beliefs and his fierce and vocal following (the numbers of which, it would have turned out, weren't imaginary) by moderating his viewpoints and engaging in active political discourse. On the other, he would circumnavigate the Courts and the Congress and implement them anyway. In other words, he'd be a dictator.

Why else would you run for President on a platform that so few people recognize as cognizant thought? Why else would you attempt to be the leader of the free world, and representative of 200 million people, if your political views only cater explicitly to less than twenty percent of them? (The statistic, of course, was enlarged to fit his egomaniacal assertion that these polls do not show Ron Paul's support realistically. Ha-ha-ha.) If he had any hope of putting his promises of overhaul of the entire United States economy into practice, he would have to do it himself, without approval from the Courts or the Congress. And that, I told my friend's friend, is the most severe form of fascism.

And in the face of this pure logic, the poor guy went apeshit. He spat at me. He told me I was blind. He yelled and screamed obscenities claiming that I was the problem. And quite frankly, I was shocked. I hadn't expected this kind of action at a simple Halloween party.

He was, in his overblown Paultarded response, emblematic of a larger problem that in a way, we should thank Ron Paul for illuminating us to. He is the explicit representation of the total and complete lack of even the willingness to engage in political discourse in the United States.

Many Ron Paul supporters point to the fact that he is endorsed by both extreme Liberals and extreme Republicans as a disproof of this. They say, "How can he be poisonous to discourse if he is endorsed so readily by both Democrats and Republicans? Is he not a unifier?" Again, discounting completely the imaginary numbers they assign to his popularity among voters, there's a simple answer that is deeply rooted in complex political history.

The assertion that since Ron Paul is endorsed by both parties that he is a symbol of unification can be summed up by analyzing what qualifies, to a Ron Paul supporter, multi-party political endorsement. To them, the two-party system can be summed up through the following crude, Microsoft Paint-created diagram:



They think the only intersection between the beliefs of Liberals and Conservatives occurs at the state of moderation. That somehow, since Paul is endorsed by both Liberals and Democrats, he represents all parts of the political spectrum instead of just the Conservative agenda. Which is, of course, wrong. And it is an interesting problem to consider. Why do so many self-proclaimed (or otherwise) Liberals even give Ron Paul a second of their time? He stands for "States' Rights", privatization, opposition to Roe v Wade and any number of other policies and beliefs that, in any other vessel, they'd scoff at and deride.

The problem is in the diagram. They view the political spectrum as a bar, with two sides and two extremes. On the left are the Extreme Liberals, completely and totally isolated from everyone else; in the middle are the Moderates, who are willing to work together, and on the right are the Extreme Conservatives, also completely isolated and left to their own devices.

The real diagram looks something like this:



It is amazing how similar, historically, the Radical Left and the Radical Right have acted. Their actions, beliefs, and causes overlap so frequently that it is often impossible to discern the difference between the two.

Take for instance the Weathermen. They were a leftist organization in the mid-to-late '60s that began as a simple protest organization, printing fliers, organizing rallies, etc. But as they became more and more radical, they became more and more violent, until during the infamous Days of Rage, they became purely a militant organization. Their end came when the dynamite that several prominent leaders were making went off accidentally, killing three.

They were a leftist group, to be certain. But they were exceedingly militant, in many ways without regard to human life.

Now take for instance the individuals throughout history who have taken it upon themselves to prevent abortions from occuring. They often stand in front of clinics, refusing to let people inside, they hold up violent images of mutilated fetuses to protest; they cause general Constitutional civil unrest.

But some resort to violence, even blowing clinics straight off the face of the planet. Complete and utter disregard for human life that they claim to protect.

Do I see any difference between those two types of people?

No.

They are merely two examples, and there are countless more (for instance, the dictatorships - some Leftist (like Castro), some Right-Wing (like Hitler), but all dictatorships nonetheless, and the most extreme form of extremism, so to speak. But they serve the basic purpose to illustrate my point that the political spectrum is not a road, or a bar, but a circle, and an endless one. There are two points at which the political ideals meet. And Ron Paul supporters meet at the very bottom.

They are all extremists. Most are hipsters. Most are arrogant. (As all extremists and radicals tend to be.) And because they view the political spectrum as a straight line, and because they see both ends of the spectrum endorsing this candidate, they see him as a moderate of some kind; as someone who can bring everyone together under his kindly smile.

Which is why, when one points out Ron Paul's flaws or asserts that he has no chance of winning, or makes note of his obvious insanity (Thank you, FearTheReaper, your services shall not go unnoticed), his supporters become more and more vehement. Owing to the fact that they see him as a political umbrella, encompassing many different viewpoints, they see those who do not agree with his policies as being unfair or irrational. They're quick to anger with someone they perceive as not "getting it" or being, in their eyes, unreasonable in their opposition to the candidate.

Like that friend of a friend.

It's a tremendous danger to the American political system to act in the juvenile, vindictive right-or-wrong manner that Ron Paul's most vigorous supporters do. Flooding message boards. Spitting at those who disagree with them.

American politics are based on the simple principle of compromise. That two (or more) bodies can come together and make a deal, substituting some of the more radically Liberal policies for some of the more moderate Conservative, etc etc etc. Ron Paul supporters consistently refuse to even acknowledge the legitimacy of opinions that aren't their own. (Which is especially interesting when you meet Ron Paul advocates who vigorously endorse a three-party system. How in God's name will they accommodate two other parties when they refuse to entertain any and all opposition as being logical or true?)

Ron Paul is a threat - or at the very least, an emblem of a threat - to American politics. He embodies everything that's wrong with the modern political assertion that we never compromise and never negotiate, not with terrorists, not with anyone. If you throw out the fact that he is a complete and utter lunatic, that itself is enough to convince you not to vote for him, but to ignore him completely and hope he goes away by the middle of next year.

But if that doesn't work, you could always mock him.

Formus knows, in his heart, the right thing to do.

 

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Comments
Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

OCT 30, 2007 10:34 AM

mingol said:
Formus, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but did the CE Board really need another Ron Paul thread?



YES! YES IT DID! MORE!

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

OCT 30, 2007 10:40 AM

Sevillus said:
This view of the Federal Reserve and the banks -- which you describe as "revolutionary," a clear case of your own one-sided ignorance -- is not only the truth, it is a point of view maintained by Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.


Please provide what Ron Paul or Alan Greenspan has never been able to: EVIDENCE.

The Federal Reserve is split, by law, into twelve National Banks. If you eliminate those spread-out banks, there is nothing - I repeat, absolutely nothing - to prevent the banking world from conglamerating. And do you really, honestly, want a banking monopoly? Only one bank controlling every aspect of the American economy from the bottom up? You're pissed about interest now? Wait until that happens.

UrizenSpeaks

UrizenSpeaks

Los Angeles, CA
May 2004

OCT 30, 2007 10:43 AM

I try not to judge the candidate on his (or Hil-dog's) less informed followers. I'm in favor of the theory of Paul, with a few qualms over specifics, but poorly researched cultism makes me mad too.

Tool = pretty awesome band.
Tool fans = usually douchebags.
Tool = still an awesome band.

Oh, and flame topics on RP tend to not encourage the members church of Paul to do more research, just to polarize, and as you say, support him "because." smile

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

OCT 30, 2007 10:55 AM

fatalconceit said:
Many libertarians, Ron Paul included


RON PAUL IS A REPUBLICAN.

The refusal on the part of even moderate republicans and democrats to allow space for political experimentation in a federal system is what many libertarians find tantamount to fascism.


Political experimentation? 230 years into our existence? When our status as a world power and a global influence has been cemented? When many nations - Russia, China, Pakistan, etc - present threats to our well-being as it is? You want to experiment and potentially crumble our political and economic system from the ground up?

It doesn't make any sense. Ron Paul can feed you fascism and conspiracy theories, but they are not real.

They insist that we are one nation (not many peoples) and that we must live by one set of laws dictated from DC.


So you're an anarchist?

Yes, let's let states operate totally and completely free of federal government. While we're at it, let's put every former States' Rights law that has ever been struck down back into practice. Let's end this pesky "civil rights" nonsense, let's go back to the days when women and blacks couldn't vote; hell, let's go back to the days of slavery! After all, the states should make decisions for themselves.

Libertarians question both the ability and legitimacy of centralized government on that scale.


I'd say it's pretty able, since it's going strong in its current state for over 200 years. Sorry.

There is nothing remotely democratic about representative government when 300+ million people are being represented by 500+ reps. 300 million people do not engage in conversation. Democracy was never meant to function on that scale.


Here are two problems with that assertion. Representatives, by very definition, only represent their constituents. Not everyone in the country. Besides, between local, state (which does exist, no matter what Ron Paul may say), and federal governments, the number of representatives is way more than 500. Way more. More like 500 thousand.

And please provide evidence that "democracy was never meant to fuction on that scale." There is none. In fact, the only people in history who have said such stupid things in a position of democratic influence have, in all likelihood, been fascists. It is a fucking stupid thing to say because it is swathed in delusion.

If you want to foster real discussion, then you should be with Paul on decentralization and federalism and accept that rather than live in one giant political compromise, we be allowed to live lives more closely aligned with our views of justice with like minded people in a localized setting.


Oh I see. So if people hate Jews, they should be allowed to kill them? After all, they are like-minded and it is on a localized setting. Or be able to make laws that segregate races and relegate blacks to lesser facilities, homes, and schools? Surely that's never been done in recent memory. And surely if it was, it was a smashing success.

I do not comprehend how you could be so ignorant about human nature. What you're essentially arguing is Communist Anarchy. And both Communism and Anarchy operate on the assumption that people are naturally good and warm and bubbly and the only corruption or greed comes from government systems. People are not like that. You put "like-minded people in a localized setting" and for all you fucking know, they'll make slavery legal. And since you've just abolished the federal fucking government, how would you plan on dealing with that? Exactly.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

OCT 30, 2007 11:00 AM

Formus said:

mingol said:
Formus, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but did the CE Board really need another Ron Paul thread?



YES! YES IT DID! MORE!


I believe you mean...


Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

OCT 30, 2007 11:07 AM

tehjesus said:
Well I can make a fancy photoshop graph DRUNK!!! zoom image



There's seriously a smilie face by "marijuana"? Yes, this well-informed, well-reasoned chart is....

"Social welfare" is by Totalitarianism?

Jesus Christ. Just. Jesus Christ.

Ron Paul wears dresses and eats babies, so you know.

It's also funny that Ron Paul's name is right by "private schools" on the "Freedom" side, considering Ron Paul wants to privatize every school in America. But that little nothing can be overlooked, because he likes weed, dude.

Suicide_King

Suicide_King

Oaklyn, NJ
October 2007

OCT 30, 2007 11:48 AM

You lost me at pie charts.

RileyStClair

RileyStClair

Los Angeles, CA
September 2006

OCT 30, 2007 12:05 PM

Suicide_King said:
You lost me at pie charts.



i think you might have been lost before that, considering there aren't any pie charts in this thread.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

OCT 30, 2007 12:06 PM

CG70 said:
Great article - really enjoy your writing. I too share some of your concerns about Ron Paul and other politicians who have sung similar refrains.

I'm always struck by people who embrace Libertarianism as the "obvious choice" for ending the strangle-hold of taxation and "Big Government" involvement in community issues. But my point is always, fine, we elect a Libertarian (-ish) President and implement his/her agenda, but then what? What does our country look like the next day when you pick up the phone to call 911 or need a bridge built in your community or need - god forbid - some other set of real services. People are right to criticize "Big Government" - we've not always had a good experience with it here in the US, but we do need a strong central Government. And the idea that people would fairly and equally share their wealth and resources of their own accord is preposterous. Look at ANY community where local "fire dues" and other community services are paid or managed on a local basis and you'll see that many, many people are happy to be dead-beats and even when they are not that the money is often mis-managed and prone to corruption. Compulsory taxation in exchange for a hodge-podge of frequently inferior services stinks, but it's the best solution for a world where people are largely motivated by greed.



It is amusing because the Libertarians strike me as the people who would be the first to withhold with money. The same people who call for business to run the world and the same people who would abuse it IMO, because they're cause is rooted in one thing: Greed.

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

OCT 30, 2007 12:13 PM

RileyStClair said:

Suicide_King said:
You lost me at pie charts.



i think you might have been lost before that, considering there aren't any pie charts in this thread.



Well, it does now.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

OCT 30, 2007 12:16 PM

Chainlink said:
You have defined yourself quite clearly here. There's no need for me to make any assumptions about what a tool you are. It's not because you are a Republican of any sort. It's your disingenuous nature that gives you away. That and stupidity.



Hey! Be nice to our Moderate Buddha.

FearTheReaper

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

OCT 30, 2007 12:18 PM

jpaul256 said:

Chainlink said:
...while my comment may not be entirely accurate...



...you are going to make it anyway. If presuming you understand me and who I am - and then attacking that image - makes you feel better, then so be it.

Thanks for sharing.



VICTIM.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

OCT 30, 2007 12:24 PM

Uncognitive said:

RileyStClair said:

Suicide_King said:
You lost me at pie charts.


i think you might have been lost before that, considering there aren't any pie charts in this thread.


Well, it does now.


I think I love you.

TommyRocket

TommyRocket

Brooklyn, NY
August 2006

OCT 30, 2007 12:25 PM

i don't have time to read this whole blog. i don't support ron paul, but i think you should watch this:

america: freedom to fascism

this:

the power of nightmares

and maybe this: zeitgeist

and you'll at least know the federal reserve argument.

it revolves not around the banks having power, but around the fact that the US goverment can make their own currency, and currently does not...because they let the federal reserve do it starting in 1913. they took away the gold standard so the dollar is backed by squat, and the government is constantly borrowing money from the reserve, a private bank, creating inflation. which leads to us paying a large amount of taxes to feed the national debt/inflation vs actual facets of the government.

if the reserve were dissolved, it would not destroy private banks but it would shift the power to issue the dollar back to the us government, so it would take oligarchs [if you will] out of direct power.

the argument isn't new:


Thomas Jefferson to
John Taylor, 1816 "I sincerely believe ... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale."




John Adams, letter to
Thomas Jefferson "All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."++




George Washington, in letter to
J. Bowen, Rhode Island,
Jan. 9, 1787 "Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice."++

SouGei

SouGei

Blackwood, NJ
January 2007

OCT 30, 2007 12:36 PM

When I hear Ron Paul talk, a lot of what he says does make sense, if he were writing an alternate reality America fanfic. I think a lot of people don't like the Democrats are are so happy a Republican (who is really a pure Libertarian) can put together a few sentences that make sense to them ("War is bad...it's expensive!"), they don't think that most of what he's saying cannot be achieved in this dimension of time-space.

But I have to admit, war is expensive. I believe that's the entirety of his Liberal overlap.

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