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  • TUESDAY OCTOBER 30 2007 12:00 AM

The Dangers of Ron Paul



I'm actually starting to view Ron Paul's existence as dangerous. He's not a joke anymore. We can't go oh-funny-ha-ha-Ron-Paul-supporters-lol, because they're so pervasive, so confrontational, and so one-sidedly ignorant that they become, as representatives of a larger issue, dangerous. He's a real threat to discourse and compromise in American political culture.

Earlier tonight, I went to a Halloween party that was particularly and brazenly insufferable. There was no beer, the music sucked, there were a grand total of ten people there, and each one of them (including my friends) was a stuck-up snob.

The night essentially ended with a heated argument with a friend of a friend, and I mean it was a doozy. The friend of a friend, who is a Ron Paul supporter, insists that the Federal Reserve (which was a decentralizing institution) is a pinnacle of centralized control. That "The Banks", in this case an abstract and horrifying specter of the impending doom that awaits us all, control The Dollar, a fantastic and revolutionary idea to be had for sure, and that all money that we spend goes back to the banks, which as we all know is the basic principle - a self-contained, recyclous process - and that "The Banks" controlling The Dollar equates to "The Banks" controlling me. And he argued that the Federal Reserve should be eradicated because it connects "The Banks" to The Dollar in a horrifying way, and is a fascism.

My response was this: What if we get rid of the Federal Reserve? What would happen to "The Banks?" They'd stay put. They wouldn't go anywhere, and would operate unfettered. However, there would be absolutely nothing preventing them from monopolizing and putting an even greater fascist control over the dollar - after all, the Federal Reserve is fed by twelve regional banks by law, and if we remove the Reserve, we remove the principle of the separation of banks. Essentially, it would be a vehicle to one huge horizontally integrated Superbank, a singularity and thus a far bigger threat of fascism.

He responded by telling me I don't know how the economy works. He stated that everyone in America is controlled by the banks systems, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I responded by stating that everyone in America is controlled by Martians, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I went on to say that Ron Paul is a fascist.

He laughed at me.

I said, no seriously. If Ron Paul is elected President, how will his policies be implemented? The Congress is controlled largely by moderate Democrats, and will be for a good six-or-so years, and any extreme right-wing policies that he would attempt to implement, including his horrific privatization enterprise (talk about economic fascism), would be cast aside. They would not become law. And if Ron Paul runs his platform on eliminating the Federal Reserve and completely overhauling the economy, any attempt to implement it would be dead in the water. Even if it was the right thing to do - which, it should be said, it is not - it still wouldn't be ushered through by a largely democratic Congress. I asked him if this made sense, and he nodded and started to say BUT-

And what would happen then, I continued. One of two things would happen. On the one hand, Ron Paul would sell out his political beliefs and his fierce and vocal following (the numbers of which, it would have turned out, weren't imaginary) by moderating his viewpoints and engaging in active political discourse. On the other, he would circumnavigate the Courts and the Congress and implement them anyway. In other words, he'd be a dictator.

Why else would you run for President on a platform that so few people recognize as cognizant thought? Why else would you attempt to be the leader of the free world, and representative of 200 million people, if your political views only cater explicitly to less than twenty percent of them? (The statistic, of course, was enlarged to fit his egomaniacal assertion that these polls do not show Ron Paul's support realistically. Ha-ha-ha.) If he had any hope of putting his promises of overhaul of the entire United States economy into practice, he would have to do it himself, without approval from the Courts or the Congress. And that, I told my friend's friend, is the most severe form of fascism.

And in the face of this pure logic, the poor guy went apeshit. He spat at me. He told me I was blind. He yelled and screamed obscenities claiming that I was the problem. And quite frankly, I was shocked. I hadn't expected this kind of action at a simple Halloween party.

He was, in his overblown Paultarded response, emblematic of a larger problem that in a way, we should thank Ron Paul for illuminating us to. He is the explicit representation of the total and complete lack of even the willingness to engage in political discourse in the United States.

Many Ron Paul supporters point to the fact that he is endorsed by both extreme Liberals and extreme Republicans as a disproof of this. They say, "How can he be poisonous to discourse if he is endorsed so readily by both Democrats and Republicans? Is he not a unifier?" Again, discounting completely the imaginary numbers they assign to his popularity among voters, there's a simple answer that is deeply rooted in complex political history.

The assertion that since Ron Paul is endorsed by both parties that he is a symbol of unification can be summed up by analyzing what qualifies, to a Ron Paul supporter, multi-party political endorsement. To them, the two-party system can be summed up through the following crude, Microsoft Paint-created diagram:



They think the only intersection between the beliefs of Liberals and Conservatives occurs at the state of moderation. That somehow, since Paul is endorsed by both Liberals and Democrats, he represents all parts of the political spectrum instead of just the Conservative agenda. Which is, of course, wrong. And it is an interesting problem to consider. Why do so many self-proclaimed (or otherwise) Liberals even give Ron Paul a second of their time? He stands for "States' Rights", privatization, opposition to Roe v Wade and any number of other policies and beliefs that, in any other vessel, they'd scoff at and deride.

The problem is in the diagram. They view the political spectrum as a bar, with two sides and two extremes. On the left are the Extreme Liberals, completely and totally isolated from everyone else; in the middle are the Moderates, who are willing to work together, and on the right are the Extreme Conservatives, also completely isolated and left to their own devices.

The real diagram looks something like this:



It is amazing how similar, historically, the Radical Left and the Radical Right have acted. Their actions, beliefs, and causes overlap so frequently that it is often impossible to discern the difference between the two.

Take for instance the Weathermen. They were a leftist organization in the mid-to-late '60s that began as a simple protest organization, printing fliers, organizing rallies, etc. But as they became more and more radical, they became more and more violent, until during the infamous Days of Rage, they became purely a militant organization. Their end came when the dynamite that several prominent leaders were making went off accidentally, killing three.

They were a leftist group, to be certain. But they were exceedingly militant, in many ways without regard to human life.

Now take for instance the individuals throughout history who have taken it upon themselves to prevent abortions from occuring. They often stand in front of clinics, refusing to let people inside, they hold up violent images of mutilated fetuses to protest; they cause general Constitutional civil unrest.

But some resort to violence, even blowing clinics straight off the face of the planet. Complete and utter disregard for human life that they claim to protect.

Do I see any difference between those two types of people?

No.

They are merely two examples, and there are countless more (for instance, the dictatorships - some Leftist (like Castro), some Right-Wing (like Hitler), but all dictatorships nonetheless, and the most extreme form of extremism, so to speak. But they serve the basic purpose to illustrate my point that the political spectrum is not a road, or a bar, but a circle, and an endless one. There are two points at which the political ideals meet. And Ron Paul supporters meet at the very bottom.

They are all extremists. Most are hipsters. Most are arrogant. (As all extremists and radicals tend to be.) And because they view the political spectrum as a straight line, and because they see both ends of the spectrum endorsing this candidate, they see him as a moderate of some kind; as someone who can bring everyone together under his kindly smile.

Which is why, when one points out Ron Paul's flaws or asserts that he has no chance of winning, or makes note of his obvious insanity (Thank you, FearTheReaper, your services shall not go unnoticed), his supporters become more and more vehement. Owing to the fact that they see him as a political umbrella, encompassing many different viewpoints, they see those who do not agree with his policies as being unfair or irrational. They're quick to anger with someone they perceive as not "getting it" or being, in their eyes, unreasonable in their opposition to the candidate.

Like that friend of a friend.

It's a tremendous danger to the American political system to act in the juvenile, vindictive right-or-wrong manner that Ron Paul's most vigorous supporters do. Flooding message boards. Spitting at those who disagree with them.

American politics are based on the simple principle of compromise. That two (or more) bodies can come together and make a deal, substituting some of the more radically Liberal policies for some of the more moderate Conservative, etc etc etc. Ron Paul supporters consistently refuse to even acknowledge the legitimacy of opinions that aren't their own. (Which is especially interesting when you meet Ron Paul advocates who vigorously endorse a three-party system. How in God's name will they accommodate two other parties when they refuse to entertain any and all opposition as being logical or true?)

Ron Paul is a threat - or at the very least, an emblem of a threat - to American politics. He embodies everything that's wrong with the modern political assertion that we never compromise and never negotiate, not with terrorists, not with anyone. If you throw out the fact that he is a complete and utter lunatic, that itself is enough to convince you not to vote for him, but to ignore him completely and hope he goes away by the middle of next year.

But if that doesn't work, you could always mock him.

Formus knows, in his heart, the right thing to do.

 

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Comments
jpaul256

jpaul256

Spring, TX
June 2006

OCT 30, 2007 07:15 AM

Zarth said:
The historical reality is that large empires have generally been more tolerant of diversity (as a matter of administrative necessity) than smaller political units.

Freedoms can be just as easily - if not more easily - abused and infringed upon by a small state or even a small, tightly-knit but extralegal community.



Good point. And this may be a silly example, but gated communities here in Texas are a perfect example. There are now four lawsuits pending in State court challenging the draconian measures instituted by the Homeowners Associations to "protect the community". In a larger context, these covenants can be easily viewed as bigoted and sexist. In a larger community, these types of conditions would not be tolerated. But when you live behind a gate and interact only with people that look, act, and think like you, these types of things are easier to implement.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

OCT 30, 2007 07:22 AM

jpaul256 said:

Zarth said:
The historical reality is that large empires have generally been more tolerant of diversity (as a matter of administrative necessity) than smaller political units.

Freedoms can be just as easily - if not more easily - abused and infringed upon by a small state or even a small, tightly-knit but extralegal community.


Good point. And this may be a silly example, but gated communities here in Texas are a perfect example. There are now four lawsuits pending in State court challenging the draconian measures instituted by the Homeowners Associations to "protect the community". In a larger context, these covenants can be easily viewed as bigoted and sexist. In a larger community, these types of conditions would not be tolerated. But when you live behind a gate and interact only with people that look, act, and think like you, these types of things are easier to implement.


Exactly. Not that I'm in favor of resurrecting the Tartar Yoke, as such, but conformity is often a lot easier to enforce in smaller communities.

There are exceptions, of course. The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China immediately spring to mind. But the extremity of oppression required to enforce conformity in both cases at least bears witness to the difficulty of it.

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

OCT 30, 2007 07:29 AM

Heathen_Dave said:
Hah, I just realized. The one nice thing about this election is: no matter who we vote for, it's an upgrade.



That's not a comforting thought, honestly. If we get He Who Should Not Be Named, (unlikely as that may be), I don't think that would be an upgrade.

skinyboi

skinyboi

Denver, CO
February 2006

OCT 30, 2007 08:07 AM

"Oh, and the legal concept of federal laws taking precedence over state and local laws can be found in the 14th Amendment, which was a part of the Constitution the last time I checked. "

US constitution, 14th amendment: article 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is the section I beleive your referencing. And, while I agree with the verdict of RvW as it applies to this amendment, and disagree with Dr. Paul's stance on it, I think it sets precident, or extrapolation, to other areas that I do not agree with. One of those areas is the drug prohibition. And, states rights as they apply. My posistion is that each person be granted to do as they please without expressly harming another individual. That extrapolation is where the danger arrises and as such, I think that this type of situation would be handled better on a local level. Or, more appropriatly the American way, kids don't have sex, adults don't have sex, and children come from a magical stork that delivers the new infant to it's loving new family.

I think it's important for the Ferderal Government to maintain a non-role as it applies to morality, in any case that exceeds common law. As it stands, the other choices do not defend or even suggest this stance. There are no, nor will there ever be a canidate that I agree with on 100% of everything, but in this case, I have to think that Paul, while admittedly flawed, supports this stance.

wildswan

wildswan

I'm lost
June 2006

OCT 30, 2007 08:13 AM

bodymist said:

FreakPirate said:
Is there a convenient list of Ron Paul supporters on the site so I can start axeing them from my friends list?


do you even know anything about Ron Paul other than what you read here in between jerking off?




Bahahahahahaha!

Do you FreakPirate? Do you? Do you?

grrowler

grrowler

Sarasota, FL
October 2007

OCT 30, 2007 08:16 AM

Sevillus

Sevillus

New York, NY
May 2004

OCT 30, 2007 08:22 AM

This view of the Federal Reserve and the banks -- which you describe as "revolutionary," a clear case of your own one-sided ignorance -- is not only the truth, it is a point of view maintained by Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.

Formus, with all due respect, writers should also be readers, and dude,you need to do a LOT more reading.

JDPatriot

JDPatriot

Fort Lauderdale, FL
January 2004

OCT 30, 2007 08:49 AM

Sevillus said:
This view of the Federal Reserve and the banks -- which you describe as "revolutionary," a clear case of your own one-sided ignorance -- is not only the truth, it is a point of view maintained by Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.

Formus, with all due respect, writers should also be readers, and dude,you need to do a LOT more reading.



Alan Greenspan has recently said "Fuck You" (more eloquently, of course) to much of his previous political affiliation. YOU might want to read a bit more.

JDPatriot

JDPatriot

Fort Lauderdale, FL
January 2004

OCT 30, 2007 08:58 AM

jpaul256 said:

Zarth said:
The historical reality is that large empires have generally been more tolerant of diversity (as a matter of administrative necessity) than smaller political units.

Freedoms can be just as easily - if not more easily - abused and infringed upon by a small state or even a small, tightly-knit but extralegal community.



Good point. And this may be a silly example, but gated communities here in Texas are a perfect example. There are now four lawsuits pending in State court challenging the draconian measures instituted by the Homeowners Associations to "protect the community". In a larger context, these covenants can be easily viewed as bigoted and sexist. In a larger community, these types of conditions would not be tolerated. But when you live behind a gate and interact only with people that look, act, and think like you, these types of things are easier to implement.



Very true, however I present the following argument, which I'm not sure I even agree with, but it's been made and it's a strong one:

Race and Sex are just other features of a person, like eye color, nostril size, height, lactose intolerance, etc...

If that is the case, then aren't private groups allowed to discriminate based upon whatever criteria they deem worthy, so long as it's a PRIVATE thing?

This policy CLEARLY has racist implications. However, take it to a more personal level: does a person have the right to associate with whomever they choose, based upon nothing more then their own standards and criteria? Obviously, we do. If I think John Doe is a drunk-ass loser gimp who just wants to chill with me to get free shit from my paycheck, while contributing nothing but gripes and irritation don't I have the right to cut them out of my life? Furthermore, if I simply don't get along with someone, don't I have the right to remove them from my life as well?

This does not mean violence, violence is obviously criminal in this context and should not be tolerated. HOWEVER, if free association is legitimate, then can't a group of people band together for the same reasons? I'm sure I'd think most gated community policies are half braindead, but if someone wants to live there that's their own accord, and if they aren't welcome they shouldn't have a right to force themselves into that community.

Personally, I think that argument makes some good points, although it can be misconstrued just as easily as many other philosophies.

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

OCT 30, 2007 09:15 AM

JDPatriot said:
Race and Sex are just other features of a person, like eye color, nostril size, height, lactose intolerance, etc...

If that is the case, then aren't private groups allowed to discriminate based upon whatever criteria they deem worthy, so long as it's a PRIVATE thing?

This policy CLEARLY has racist implications. However, take it to a more personal level: does a person have the right to associate with whomever they choose, based upon nothing more then their own standards and criteria? Obviously, we do. If I think John Doe is a drunk-ass loser gimp who just wants to chill with me to get free shit from my paycheck, while contributing nothing but gripes and irritation don't I have the right to cut them out of my life? Furthermore, if I simply don't get along with someone, don't I have the right to remove them from my life as well?

This does not mean violence, violence is obviously criminal in this context and should not be tolerated. HOWEVER, if free association is legitimate, then can't a group of people band together for the same reasons? I'm sure I'd think most gated community policies are half braindead, but if someone wants to live there that's their own accord, and if they aren't welcome they shouldn't have a right to force themselves into that community.

Personally, I think that argument makes some good points, although it can be misconstrued just as easily as many other philosophies.



Commercial enterprises such as residential communities are not anything close to being PRIVATE things. Under the law, you not allowing black people into your private home is different than you not allowing black people into your lunch counter, for example.

Also, considering U.S. history at the very least, do you really think race and gender are comparable to nostril size when it comes to the impact of discrimination?

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

OCT 30, 2007 09:39 AM

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

OCT 30, 2007 09:49 AM

Even I'll say that that was pretty funny^

committedsavage

committedsavage

Seattle, WA
July 2006

OCT 30, 2007 09:55 AM

joker_ said:

tehjesus said:
Well I can make a fancy photoshop graph DRUNK!!! zoom image



Social Welfare leads to tyranny with a big red arrow?
surreal

Who the fuck are you people? Acolytes of Apocalypse from the X-men comic or something?



HA! +100

fatalconceit

fatalconceit

Providence, RI
January 2003

OCT 30, 2007 10:25 AM

I think the point you make about ending discussion is a solid one and one that many libertarians are probably guilty of. I'm giving a talk at Brown tonight about Liberal Libertarianism and am going to try and show how libertarianism can be compatible with ordered discussion and political authority.

Many libertarians, Ron Paul included want a whole lot of issues taken off of the political bargaining table, particularly at the national level, so yes, on that level they are anti-discussion. Note that this is the primary function of rights in a system with judicial review: the idea is to make certain aspects of life protected from coercive government intrusion.

Merely because they have been taken off the bargaining table at the national level however, doesn't mean they can't be on the table at the local level. the real question for Paul supporters (and Paul himself) is whether we can allow welfarism in Massachusetts and largely unfettered free-markets in New Hampshire.

The refusal on the part of even moderate republicans and democrats to allow space for political experimentation in a federal system is what many libertarians find tantamount to fascism. They insist that we are one nation (not many peoples) and that we must live by one set of laws dictated from DC. Libertarians question both the ability and legitimacy of centralized government on that scale.

There is nothing remotely democratic about representative government when 300+ million people are being represented by 500+ reps. 300 million people do not engage in conversation. Democracy was never meant to function on that scale.

If you want to foster real discussion, then you should be with Paul on decentralization and federalism and accept that rather than live in one giant political compromise, we be allowed to live lives more closely aligned with our views of justice with like minded people in a localized setting. The only issues that ought to be national ones are the ones that involve significant externalities. There are parts of our lives we shouldn't have to compromise on because they are central to who we are and the kinds of lives we find valuable to live.

Ron Paul does not believe we should all be coerced into a libertarian political structure, but rather that we should be free to choose, inasmuch as possible, the kinds of lives (including political lives) we want to live. And yes, this means reducing the scope of federal government, but it does not follow that reregulation cannot occur at the state or local level. There is no conceivable reason why people as diverse as Ron Paul, Ru Paul, Ellen DeGeneres, Jerry Falwell, Katie Couric, Ann Coulter, and Ralph Nader should have to live by the same sets of laws if it is at all possible for them not to. In some cases, that we are American brings us together, but in many circumstances it's the fact that we're ok being different that makes us American.

PS: I want to note that as a libertarian and a Paul supporter, I have no real animus against the Federal Reserve or fiat money. I really don't care about the gold standard. It's strange that a group of unelected technocrats get to decide what the value of my money is, but then again, it's strange that its value should be tied to the discovery of new gold mines in South Africa too... Money is a way of storing value, and anything that accomplishes that task is fine with me.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

OCT 30, 2007 10:32 AM

You know, the whole "Ron Paul is right about drugs and the War on Iraq therefore he must be a visionary leader of sound principle" reasoning/logic is starting to wear thin. Not only is it seriously misguided it's wrong.

Ron Pauls principles are not sound--government bad, look at the bad things government has done, let's eliminate the government. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Sure, the government has done bad things that doesn't mean it can't and isn't a very useful tool of social organization, and it sure as hell doesn't mean we should reduce it to a totally impotent size.

Yes, Ron Paul is right about the War on Drugs, and he's right about the War in Iraq, but the reasoning he used to get to those conclusions are WRONG! You have heard the saying a broken clock works twice a day? That's Ron Paul, a broken clock. You people have to stop looking at just his stance on issues but how he arrived at them. Many times around these boards and in life I've run across people who I agree with ostensibly, but when I dug deeper and discovered why they believe the same EXACT thing I believed, I found that they were seriously misguided. Ron Paul is one of these people. He got attention from the likes Bill Mahr and others because he has agreeable stances (on a few issues), but his views don't hold up to scrutiny.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid!

VOTE Ron "The Broken Clock" Paul '08

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