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  • TUESDAY OCTOBER 30 2007 12:00 AM

The Dangers of Ron Paul



I'm actually starting to view Ron Paul's existence as dangerous. He's not a joke anymore. We can't go oh-funny-ha-ha-Ron-Paul-supporters-lol, because they're so pervasive, so confrontational, and so one-sidedly ignorant that they become, as representatives of a larger issue, dangerous. He's a real threat to discourse and compromise in American political culture.

Earlier tonight, I went to a Halloween party that was particularly and brazenly insufferable. There was no beer, the music sucked, there were a grand total of ten people there, and each one of them (including my friends) was a stuck-up snob.

The night essentially ended with a heated argument with a friend of a friend, and I mean it was a doozy. The friend of a friend, who is a Ron Paul supporter, insists that the Federal Reserve (which was a decentralizing institution) is a pinnacle of centralized control. That "The Banks", in this case an abstract and horrifying specter of the impending doom that awaits us all, control The Dollar, a fantastic and revolutionary idea to be had for sure, and that all money that we spend goes back to the banks, which as we all know is the basic principle - a self-contained, recyclous process - and that "The Banks" controlling The Dollar equates to "The Banks" controlling me. And he argued that the Federal Reserve should be eradicated because it connects "The Banks" to The Dollar in a horrifying way, and is a fascism.

My response was this: What if we get rid of the Federal Reserve? What would happen to "The Banks?" They'd stay put. They wouldn't go anywhere, and would operate unfettered. However, there would be absolutely nothing preventing them from monopolizing and putting an even greater fascist control over the dollar - after all, the Federal Reserve is fed by twelve regional banks by law, and if we remove the Reserve, we remove the principle of the separation of banks. Essentially, it would be a vehicle to one huge horizontally integrated Superbank, a singularity and thus a far bigger threat of fascism.

He responded by telling me I don't know how the economy works. He stated that everyone in America is controlled by the banks systems, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I responded by stating that everyone in America is controlled by Martians, and the fact that no one admits to it only strengthens its truth.

I went on to say that Ron Paul is a fascist.

He laughed at me.

I said, no seriously. If Ron Paul is elected President, how will his policies be implemented? The Congress is controlled largely by moderate Democrats, and will be for a good six-or-so years, and any extreme right-wing policies that he would attempt to implement, including his horrific privatization enterprise (talk about economic fascism), would be cast aside. They would not become law. And if Ron Paul runs his platform on eliminating the Federal Reserve and completely overhauling the economy, any attempt to implement it would be dead in the water. Even if it was the right thing to do - which, it should be said, it is not - it still wouldn't be ushered through by a largely democratic Congress. I asked him if this made sense, and he nodded and started to say BUT-

And what would happen then, I continued. One of two things would happen. On the one hand, Ron Paul would sell out his political beliefs and his fierce and vocal following (the numbers of which, it would have turned out, weren't imaginary) by moderating his viewpoints and engaging in active political discourse. On the other, he would circumnavigate the Courts and the Congress and implement them anyway. In other words, he'd be a dictator.

Why else would you run for President on a platform that so few people recognize as cognizant thought? Why else would you attempt to be the leader of the free world, and representative of 200 million people, if your political views only cater explicitly to less than twenty percent of them? (The statistic, of course, was enlarged to fit his egomaniacal assertion that these polls do not show Ron Paul's support realistically. Ha-ha-ha.) If he had any hope of putting his promises of overhaul of the entire United States economy into practice, he would have to do it himself, without approval from the Courts or the Congress. And that, I told my friend's friend, is the most severe form of fascism.

And in the face of this pure logic, the poor guy went apeshit. He spat at me. He told me I was blind. He yelled and screamed obscenities claiming that I was the problem. And quite frankly, I was shocked. I hadn't expected this kind of action at a simple Halloween party.

He was, in his overblown Paultarded response, emblematic of a larger problem that in a way, we should thank Ron Paul for illuminating us to. He is the explicit representation of the total and complete lack of even the willingness to engage in political discourse in the United States.

Many Ron Paul supporters point to the fact that he is endorsed by both extreme Liberals and extreme Republicans as a disproof of this. They say, "How can he be poisonous to discourse if he is endorsed so readily by both Democrats and Republicans? Is he not a unifier?" Again, discounting completely the imaginary numbers they assign to his popularity among voters, there's a simple answer that is deeply rooted in complex political history.

The assertion that since Ron Paul is endorsed by both parties that he is a symbol of unification can be summed up by analyzing what qualifies, to a Ron Paul supporter, multi-party political endorsement. To them, the two-party system can be summed up through the following crude, Microsoft Paint-created diagram:



They think the only intersection between the beliefs of Liberals and Conservatives occurs at the state of moderation. That somehow, since Paul is endorsed by both Liberals and Democrats, he represents all parts of the political spectrum instead of just the Conservative agenda. Which is, of course, wrong. And it is an interesting problem to consider. Why do so many self-proclaimed (or otherwise) Liberals even give Ron Paul a second of their time? He stands for "States' Rights", privatization, opposition to Roe v Wade and any number of other policies and beliefs that, in any other vessel, they'd scoff at and deride.

The problem is in the diagram. They view the political spectrum as a bar, with two sides and two extremes. On the left are the Extreme Liberals, completely and totally isolated from everyone else; in the middle are the Moderates, who are willing to work together, and on the right are the Extreme Conservatives, also completely isolated and left to their own devices.

The real diagram looks something like this:



It is amazing how similar, historically, the Radical Left and the Radical Right have acted. Their actions, beliefs, and causes overlap so frequently that it is often impossible to discern the difference between the two.

Take for instance the Weathermen. They were a leftist organization in the mid-to-late '60s that began as a simple protest organization, printing fliers, organizing rallies, etc. But as they became more and more radical, they became more and more violent, until during the infamous Days of Rage, they became purely a militant organization. Their end came when the dynamite that several prominent leaders were making went off accidentally, killing three.

They were a leftist group, to be certain. But they were exceedingly militant, in many ways without regard to human life.

Now take for instance the individuals throughout history who have taken it upon themselves to prevent abortions from occuring. They often stand in front of clinics, refusing to let people inside, they hold up violent images of mutilated fetuses to protest; they cause general Constitutional civil unrest.

But some resort to violence, even blowing clinics straight off the face of the planet. Complete and utter disregard for human life that they claim to protect.

Do I see any difference between those two types of people?

No.

They are merely two examples, and there are countless more (for instance, the dictatorships - some Leftist (like Castro), some Right-Wing (like Hitler), but all dictatorships nonetheless, and the most extreme form of extremism, so to speak. But they serve the basic purpose to illustrate my point that the political spectrum is not a road, or a bar, but a circle, and an endless one. There are two points at which the political ideals meet. And Ron Paul supporters meet at the very bottom.

They are all extremists. Most are hipsters. Most are arrogant. (As all extremists and radicals tend to be.) And because they view the political spectrum as a straight line, and because they see both ends of the spectrum endorsing this candidate, they see him as a moderate of some kind; as someone who can bring everyone together under his kindly smile.

Which is why, when one points out Ron Paul's flaws or asserts that he has no chance of winning, or makes note of his obvious insanity (Thank you, FearTheReaper, your services shall not go unnoticed), his supporters become more and more vehement. Owing to the fact that they see him as a political umbrella, encompassing many different viewpoints, they see those who do not agree with his policies as being unfair or irrational. They're quick to anger with someone they perceive as not "getting it" or being, in their eyes, unreasonable in their opposition to the candidate.

Like that friend of a friend.

It's a tremendous danger to the American political system to act in the juvenile, vindictive right-or-wrong manner that Ron Paul's most vigorous supporters do. Flooding message boards. Spitting at those who disagree with them.

American politics are based on the simple principle of compromise. That two (or more) bodies can come together and make a deal, substituting some of the more radically Liberal policies for some of the more moderate Conservative, etc etc etc. Ron Paul supporters consistently refuse to even acknowledge the legitimacy of opinions that aren't their own. (Which is especially interesting when you meet Ron Paul advocates who vigorously endorse a three-party system. How in God's name will they accommodate two other parties when they refuse to entertain any and all opposition as being logical or true?)

Ron Paul is a threat - or at the very least, an emblem of a threat - to American politics. He embodies everything that's wrong with the modern political assertion that we never compromise and never negotiate, not with terrorists, not with anyone. If you throw out the fact that he is a complete and utter lunatic, that itself is enough to convince you not to vote for him, but to ignore him completely and hope he goes away by the middle of next year.

But if that doesn't work, you could always mock him.

Formus knows, in his heart, the right thing to do.

 

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Comments
Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

OCT 30, 2007 06:09 AM

jpaul256 said:
Great article. Texans don't even like Ron Paul and can't understand how he gets re-elected. The district he serves runs from Houston to Corpus and he spends a LOT of time making personal appearances. We manaaged to get rid of DeLay. It would be nice to give Ron Paul the boot as well.



Who is this "we" that got rid of Tom DeLay ?
You sent the mother fucker to Washington and WE got rid of him.

freshprncebelair

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD
June 2004

OCT 30, 2007 06:30 AM



f the Federal Reserve were to be eliminated, then we could move to a value based economy (yeah the dollar used to be backed by actual real hard rocks gold and silver) rather then a fiat currency (backed by government promise). While I agree this is a huge step, I belive it to be the right one.



How does gold and silver have any more intrinsic value than gold and silver?

The only thing it has is that the government cannot print more of it. However, it is subject to supply fluctuations too, and these are determined by chance, as opposed to really smart people who have (supposedly) learned from history.

Also, if everyone just has gold as currency, it tends to appreciate in value (due to supply not matching demand), which encourages hoarding (which again distorts supply), and people just stick it under their mattress where it just sits not creating any value. At least if you have money in the bank, it's helping someone buy a house, or a business expand, and you make money off of that.

JonnyNero

JonnyNero

Houston, TX
October 2007

OCT 30, 2007 06:32 AM

google zeitgeist.

Then go read the sources listed at www.zeitgeistmovie.com.

That is all.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

OCT 30, 2007 06:33 AM

JonnyNero said:
google zeitgeist.

Then go read the sources listed at www.zeitgeistmovie.com.

That is all.



I love that bar.

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

OCT 30, 2007 06:35 AM

Subrosa said:

JonnyNero said:
google zeitgeist.

Then go read the sources listed at www.zeitgeistmovie.com.

That is all.



I love that bar.



HO. LY. SH. IT.


SPOILERS! (Click to view)
. . . I must go to that bar !

erleichda

erleichda

Germany
May 2003

OCT 30, 2007 06:36 AM

I've heard so much about this bar by now, I get thirsty everytime someone mentions zeitgeist.

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

OCT 30, 2007 06:38 AM

goodbyetosleep said:
God forbid a politician who wants to actually uphold the laws of the constitution.



Like the Constitutional power to levy income taxes and regulate interstate commerce?

And yes, I would like God to forbid any and all politicians who want to uphold a strict constructionist view of the Constitution that ignores about two centuries of Supreme Court rulings.

Fingers crossed that Quetzalcoatl swoops down during the next GOP debate and swallows Ron Paul whole.

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

OCT 30, 2007 06:44 AM

skinyboi said:
Next: Roe v. Wade. I think there has been alot of misunderstanding on Dr. Paul's stance on this. While it's true he wants to over turn the Federal ruleing on Roe, it's important to state that he wants it to reside fully in the right of the state. Not federal jurisdiction. To give an example of how this type of ruleing can cause issues, we currently have federal DEA agents, storming into the homes, or arresting persons consuming medical pot. This happens in states who have leagalized the medical use of weed. Federal laws take precidence. This runs in contridiction to the statements in the constitution. The idea being that if a state wants to leagalize abortion, those persons that support the right to it would move over time to that state, while those that feel it's against 'gods law' will move to a state that prohibits it.



Yeah, why have your right to privacy protected by that mean ol' federal government when you could have it invaded by those dashing young state governments? Freedom!

Didn't the whole Civil Rights movement dissuade anyone from heedlessly embracing "States Rights" as having any inherent moral or practical superiority?

Oh, and the legal concept of federal laws taking precedence over state and local laws can be found in the 14th Amendment, which was a part of the Constitution the last time I checked.

jpaul256

jpaul256

Spring, TX
June 2006

OCT 30, 2007 06:52 AM

Chainlink said:

jpaul256 said:
We manaaged to get rid of DeLay. It would be nice to give Ron Paul the boot as well.



Who is this "we" that got rid of Tom DeLay ?
You sent the mother fucker to Washington and WE got rid of him.



What are you talking about? I don't live in DeLay's district but actively supported his opponent, with my time and my money.

Your post underscores the point of the article. No civil discourse. Assumptions about who I am and what I stand for. All because I am a moderate Republican.

wereduck

wereduck

I'm lost
July 2007

OCT 30, 2007 06:53 AM

Uncognitive said:

skinyboi said:
Next: Roe v. Wade. I think there has been alot of misunderstanding on Dr. Paul's stance on this. While it's true he wants to over turn the Federal ruleing on Roe, it's important to state that he wants it to reside fully in the right of the state. Not federal jurisdiction. To give an example of how this type of ruleing can cause issues, we currently have federal DEA agents, storming into the homes, or arresting persons consuming medical pot. This happens in states who have leagalized the medical use of weed. Federal laws take precidence. This runs in contridiction to the statements in the constitution. The idea being that if a state wants to leagalize abortion, those persons that support the right to it would move over time to that state, while those that feel it's against 'gods law' will move to a state that prohibits it.



Yeah, why have your right to privacy protected by that mean ol' federal government when you could have it invaded by those dashing young state governments? Freedom!

Didn't the whole Civil Rights movement dissuade anyone from heedlessly embracing "States Rights" as having any inherent moral or practical superiority?

Oh, and the legal concept of federal laws taking precedence over state and local laws can be found in the 14th Amendment, which was a part of the Constitution the last time I checked.



Every time someone talks about "states' rights", only three things come to mind: the Articles of Confederation (failure), the Civil War, and my home state of Michigan, run by some of the most incompetent people I've ever seen or heard, and has been for decades.

The reason the Constitution was drawn up was because the federal government under the Articles was so weak that the U.S. was falling apart within a decade of being created. How can anyone think that's a good idea?

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

OCT 30, 2007 07:01 AM

Uncognitive said:
Didn't the whole Civil Rights movement dissuade anyone from heedlessly embracing "States Rights" as having any inherent moral or practical superiority?


Not even the Civil War itself was able to do that, so it shouldn't be surprising that the idea retains its cachet even after a few marches and riots and assassinations a generation or two in the past.

The historical reality is that large empires have generally been more tolerant of diversity (as a matter of administrative necessity) than smaller political units. The first major state to enact full religious toleration since Constantine's conversion, for instance, was the Mongol Empire (though the Islamic Caliphates had had limited toleration since expanding out of Arabia).

Freedoms can be just as easily - if not more easily - abused and infringed upon by a small state or even a small, tightly-knit but extralegal community (lynchings comes to mind, for instance, and this fact is a major flaw in Anarcho-Primitivist ideology). But there's this persistent, oversimplistic myth, derived originally from the models of Athens and Rome, that size is incompatible with democracy. The fallacy there, of course, is the correlation-causation one.

And speaking for myself, I never get tired of Ron Paul threads.

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

OCT 30, 2007 07:03 AM

jpaul256 said:

Chainlink said:

jpaul256 said:
We manaaged to get rid of DeLay. It would be nice to give Ron Paul the boot as well.



Who is this "we" that got rid of Tom DeLay ?
You sent the mother fucker to Washington and WE got rid of him.



What are you talking about? I don't live in DeLay's district but actively supported his opponent, with my time and my money.

Your post underscores the point of the article. No civil discourse. Assumptions about who I am and what I stand for. All because I am a moderate Republican.



Whine about it in a letter to the editor of your local paper. I've seen plenty of your "civil discourse" . Don't care for it much.
I think it's safe to say you did about piss to get rid of Tom Delay, while my comment may not be entirely accurate either it would probably be more true to say that Tom Delay was such a fuckbag he eventually got rid of himself.

You have defined yourself quite clearly here. There's no need for me to make any assumptions about what a tool you are. It's not because you are a Republican of any sort. It's your disingenuous nature that gives you away. That and stupidity.

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Canada
November 2002

OCT 30, 2007 07:04 AM

bodymist said:

do you even know anything about Ron Paul other than what you read here in between jerking off?



Actually, yes. I went to his site and read his entire platform. Can I go back to jerking off now?

i'm not in agreement with all of his policies either, but for once i'd like to see one of you ignorant little dilletants come up with an alternative candidate.



So... because the other candidates suck we're not allowed to bash to one who REALLY sucks?

at least for christ sakes if you're going to bash Dr. Paul and the people who support him, come up with something reasonably intelligent to say, something that can be reasonably debated instead of all this infantile banter about cults and crazies.



Okay. He's decidedly anti-abortion, allowed a racist newsletter to be published in his name, would tear the social support structure of your country apart and leave you in economic ruin. Good start?

like i said earlier, i don't fully agree with everything Paul has to say and i doubt that most of his constituency does either but, as of now, i'm planning to vote for him.



I'm sorry to hear that. We can never be friends.

who are YOU going to vote for? do any of you even know?



Whoever runs for the NDP most likely

i know that ignorant cynicism happens to be in vogue these days but i think the issue of our country's next election deserves a bit more prudent consideration. i'm sure all the iraqis getting tortured and run over by humvees would agree. let's hear some constructive dialog about this shit.



There have been attempts at constructive dialog in the other Ron Paul threads. You people are fucking nuts.

codechino

codechino

USA
June 2004

OCT 30, 2007 07:07 AM

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

we3_pirate said:

Uncognitive said:

skinyboi said:
Next: Roe v. Wade. I think there has been alot of misunderstanding on Dr. Paul's stance on this. While it's true he wants to over turn the Federal ruleing on Roe, it's important to state that he wants it to reside fully in the right of the state. Not federal jurisdiction. To give an example of how this type of ruleing can cause issues, we currently have federal DEA agents, storming into the homes, or arresting persons consuming medical pot. This happens in states who have leagalized the medical use of weed. Federal laws take precidence. This runs in contridiction to the statements in the constitution. The idea being that if a state wants to leagalize abortion, those persons that support the right to it would move over time to that state, while those that feel it's against 'gods law' will move to a state that prohibits it.



Yeah, why have your right to privacy protected by that mean ol' federal government when you could have it invaded by those dashing young state governments? Freedom!

Didn't the whole Civil Rights movement dissuade anyone from heedlessly embracing "States Rights" as having any inherent moral or practical superiority?

Oh, and the legal concept of federal laws taking precedence over state and local laws can be found in the 14th Amendment, which was a part of the Constitution the last time I checked.



Every time someone talks about "states' rights", only three things come to mind: the Articles of Confederation (failure), the Civil War, and my home state of Michigan, run by some of the most incompetent people I've ever seen or heard, and has been for decades.

The reason the Constitution was drawn up was because the federal government under the Articles was so weak that the U.S. was falling apart within a decade of being created. How can anyone think that's a good idea?






Why don't you illustrate why it's a bad idea

jpaul256

jpaul256

Spring, TX
June 2006

OCT 30, 2007 07:08 AM

Chainlink said:
...while my comment may not be entirely accurate...



...you are going to make it anyway. If presuming you understand me and who I am - and then attacking that image - makes you feel better, then so be it.

Thanks for sharing.

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