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Be A Good Idiot And Vote For Hillary

TUESDAY OCTOBER 16 2007 9:00 AM

Submitted by FearTheReaper. Edited By erin_broadley.

TAGS: HIllary Clinton, Iran, Iraq,



It is fascinating to watch Democrats make such stupid decisions when picking presidential candidates. We can go back to the eighties and take a look at Michael Dukakis or Walter Mondale. What the fuck? Pathetic candidates. Then came Bill Clinton, the Godsend. Realistically, he squeaked through. Without Ross Perot taking votes from Bush senior, he probably would have lost. And he certainly came with a shit load of baggage. After Clinton, the Democrats picked the most boring man alive, Al Gore. They followed that lame pick with the extraordinarily weak John Kerry. You could offer Kerry $10,000 and he couldn’t say something in a sound bite.

Now the Democrats are in a fantastic situation. The Iraq occupation is still seen as a Republican creation and a Republican problem. The majority of Americans want the war to end. So, who is leading the primary polls? Hillary Clinton, one of the few people running who voted for the war. And she has not backed down from her vote. Now, of course, she says she wants to end the occupation, (because the polls have changed) but she is still a war mongering corporate tool. The one issue Democrats could knock out of the park and they will put forth a candidate that who barely differs from the Republican opponents. Amazing, but consistent.

Sure, we are a long way from Election Day, but right now Clinton is pulling away in primary state polls. As careful as she plays the game, I would not expect a crazy Howard Dean scream meltdown. She has a massive funding machine in place and a shitload of Clinton heads who will vote for anyone who was ever anywhere near Bill. It’s sad, because I don’t see a big difference between some of her policies and Bush’s policies. Take Iran. Here’s what she wrote in Foreign Affairs this month.


Iran poses a long-term strategic challenge to the United States, our NATO allies, and Israel. It is the country that most practices state-sponsored terrorism, and it uses its surrogates to supply explosives that kill U.S. troops in Iraq. The Bush administration refuses to talk to Iran about its nuclear program, preferring to ignore bad behavior rather than challenge it. Meanwhile, Iran has enhanced its nuclear-enrichment capabilities, armed Iraqi Shiite militias, funneled arms to Hezbollah, and subsidized Hamas, even as the government continues to hurt its own citizens by mismanaging the economy and increasing political and social repression.

As a result, we have lost precious time. Iran must conform to its nonproliferation obligations and must not be permitted to build or acquire nuclear weapons. If Iran does not comply with its own commitments and the will of the international community, all options must remain on the table.

On the other hand, if Iran is in fact willing to end its nuclear weapons program, renounce sponsorship of terrorism, support Middle East peace, and play a constructive role in stabilizing Iraq, the United States should be prepared to offer Iran a carefully calibrated package of incentives. This will let the Iranian people know that our quarrel is not with them but with their government and show the world that the United States is prepared to pursue every diplomatic option.


Okay, so what Hillary is talking about here is pre-emptive war. If they do what we want them to do, then all is well. But if Iran does what it wants to do, then “All options must remain on the table.” That is how Hillary has decided to treat a sovereign nation. Seems quite familiar to another president who is currently in office. Never mind that Iran would never attack the US in a million years with a nuclear weapon. Whoever thinks that is a possibility is complete and total moron. And we should not be bombing to protect Israel. They seem to be big boys and can take care of their own problems.

Hillary already has already given Bush the green light to attack Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.


And Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton? She voted in favor of the measure in question, which asked the Bush administration to declare Iran’s 125,000-member Revolutionary Guard Corps a foreign terrorist organization. Such a move — more hawkish than even most of the Bush administration has been willing to venture so far — would intensify America’s continuing confrontation with Iran, many foreign policy experts say.


Ignorance at its best, the same as we’ve gotten from Bush for all these years.

From the Iranian perspective the answer is obvious: Make as many nuclear weapons as fast as you can. We invaded Iraq, who didn’t have them and eventually talked to North Korea, who did have them. It’s pretty simple; a nuclear weapon is the only thing that will make the US back off.

The idea that Hillary actually used the line, “let the Iranian people know that our quarrel is not with them but with their government” is fucking amazing. That’s a Bush line, straight out of the build up to the Iraq war. It also something the Iranian people won’t really go for when bombs are raining down on their country and killing them.

Only targeting the Revolutionary Guard is an idiotic idea. The Guard is not a separate entity from the Iranian population. They are not bred in warehouses on an island.


“They’re not a group of voluntary jihadists signing up to fight the United States. Many are conscripts taken from the regular army,” said Karim Sadjapour, an Iran expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.


So, that should help with the “we only have a problem with your government” plan. We are killing your brothers and fathers because we don’t like your government. Cool? Bombing will only increase support for the Iranian government, rather than foster any roots of democracy.

But keep throwing your support behind Hillary, Democrats. Of all Democratic candidates, she is the only one I could see leading the US into another war.

 

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Conroy

Conroy

United Kingdom
September 2005

OCT 16, 2007 03:26 PM

s5 said:
That's some scary shit. And get a load of this quote:

There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.



Wow, invading and attacking Pakistan too?

Oh wait, that wasn't Hillary Clinton who said that, it was Barack Obama, and his comments were not well received.

Oh well, guess you guys will be voting for Kucinich or Ron Paul or whoever.



Fair comment, but I doubt your intelligence services get much 'actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets'. it might be acceptable to act on less firm evidence in a war zone but you wouldn't want to accidentally kill women and children in a friendly country.

Obama said what sounds like spin to me, suggesting that his rivals had 'actionable intelligence' and didn't act on it, while claiming that he would. Whatever evidence there was was probably rather sketchy and the only reason the Bush administration mentioned it was to perpetuate the feeling of fear and hate in the country which keeps them in power.

Good luck with choosing your next president, ask them all hard questions at every opportunity about both foreign and domestic policy. I'm looking forward to the next youtube debate.

Sick

Sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

OCT 16, 2007 04:15 PM

I will not be voting for her. Or for Obama, for that matter. I just don't see that they have the leadership qualities I'd expect in a president. I'll vote third-party before either of them.

So far, from what I've seen, I like Bill Richardson. He's not perfect, and he definitely won't be nominated, but maybe he can be on the short-list for VP. He has to be better than Cheney in that role.

And he's Hispanic! All right, all right. A woman president, sure. A black president? Not a problem. But I guess we're just not ready for a Hispanic president.

heartattack59

heartattack59

Cleveland, OH
July 2007

OCT 16, 2007 04:23 PM

We're going to put in a president who is just as Republican as Joe Lieberman? Just to win over the Republicans who are on the fence about towing the Bush line. Prediction: Third party liberal candidates are going to steal votes from Democrats allowing Republicans to once again get an election by default. Unless *fingers crossed* the Christian Right, fed up with the fact that R are not gay-bashing enough, split off like they've been threatening. Wow, all these multiple parties could make this country a REAL republic instead of a two-party nightmare.

lefthandright

lefthandright

New Zealand
September 2006

OCT 16, 2007 04:40 PM

that's pretty rich. Israel is the only country that has an official national campaign of assassination..the u.s has funded and back more militia groups than any other government in history, the u.s in terms of g.d.p spends more on military funding at the expense of education/health/social services than any other country, which can only be interpreted as to the detriment of its citizens. Iran as always had the policy of 'we don't see the harm in talking.' and no other country, with the exception of c.c.c.p, or u.s.s.r, if you will, has even 4% of the nuclear technology and weaponry that the u.s does....no one has ever used nuclear weaponry, apart from the u.s.....twice.....and in their search for w.m.d were the only country to use chemical weaponry.

She should fire her facts checker...no doubt Iran has its own agenda, but in terms of relative morality, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

j1mdot

j1mdot

Irvine, CA
January 2007

OCT 16, 2007 04:45 PM

So, we have Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Both of whom support "pre-emptive war" (read: "aggression" [read: the "Supreme Crime" condemned at Nuremburg]), both of whom are opposed to Universal Health Care, and both of whom have been in the Senate for less than a decade. Then you have Hillary's servitude to corporate interests and Barack being bought out by big energy and agribusiness.

Yeah, what left-leaning liberals the democratic front-runners are. Gee whiz.

Saraphine

Saraphine

SUICIDEGIRL

Pennsylvania, USA

OCT 16, 2007 04:48 PM

What are you talking about? Obama is a huge advocate for universal healthcare. And he hasn't accepted a dime from lobbyists or special interest groups to raise money for his campaign. Also, he's been neck and neck with Hillary the whole time who DOES take money from big business

Rude_Ruca

Rude_Ruca

I'm lost
December 2004

OCT 16, 2007 04:52 PM

wait, I am confused.....Clinton writes that, "The Bush administration refuses to talk to Iran about its nuclear program, preferring to ignore bad behavior rather than challenge it." I thought the Bush admin was trying to pull for UN sanctions against Iran....I know I read that somewhere recently....hmmmm whatever I've said it before, Aaaaaand I'll say it again, the Democrats really do lose their effing minds whenever election time rolls around......

Redspider

Redspider

New York, NY
May 2007

OCT 16, 2007 05:05 PM

FearTheReaper said:
Dick Durbin, AT THE TIME, voted against the war. He's not exactly Dennis Kucinich. Why? He actually looked at the intelligence. Hillary's excuse of, "I voted with what info I had at the time" is a bullshit excuse, sorry. She actually didn't look into it, and like most Democrats voted out of ignorance.



+ 1(hundred)

zoophagous

zoophagous

USA
November 2006

OCT 16, 2007 05:15 PM

Actualy, that was one of Hitlers favorite lines too....
We won't have to worry though, once the HILDEBEAST is in charge we won't get anything but straight propaganda on how great things are wink
Of coarse our taxes will double, and anyone proffesing the smallest amount of dissent will imediatly commit suicide, but sometimes you just need to accept greatness surreal

aeriton

aeriton

Sugarloaf, PA
March 2007

OCT 16, 2007 05:21 PM

when it comes to hillary I dont care about her stance on Iraq or Iran... only country that comes to mind is China. Bill Clinton betrayed our country to favor his chinese masters and Hillary Clinton is following the same path.
Hell over the years last decade or so the Clinton's "collected" a nice amount of change from the chinese foriegn intelligence thingy..
And the fact that one of her advisers stole documents from the library of congress and shredded them and attempted to replace those documents with phonys to keep the 911 commision from getting them.
Hillary is just a neo-conservative in liberal clothings....

Saraah

Saraah

Los Angeles, CA
March 2007

OCT 16, 2007 05:37 PM

Saraah said:
Plenty of people believed it would go down like a nightmare, I never denied that. My point is that there were intelligent people on both sides who believed that it was possible that it would work, and in fact that it was the best option available. I'm not whitewashing anything. Kudos to the people who saw through the lies.


SirPsychoSexy said:
Kudos my ass, anyone who bothered to look saw through it. The point is, only the ones who did not do their duty to observe all the options thought invasion was the best one. If you voted for the war you were either incompetent or not paying attention.
It was patently obvious to a five year old, that even if invasion was ultimately necessary, there was NO REASON IT HAD TO BE DONE THAT EXACT SECOND. Bush pulled the inspectors (that were in the country) out, said Saddam would not let them in, then invaded.



Then a) you know a bunch of creepily precocious, politically aware five year olds and b) every other Democratic candidate for President (with the exception of Kucinich) was also incompetent or not paying attention. Which is a fine argument to make, but why aren't they all being tarred with the same brush?

And if its about her not renouncing her vote (which others did ONLY when it became poll-safe to do so, btw), how about this exchange:


NBC's Tim Russert, to John Edwards on Oct. 10, 2004: "If you knew today, and you do know, there is %u2013 there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, would you still vote to go to war with Iraq?"

Edwards: "I would have voted for the resolution, knowing what I know today, because it was the right thing to do to give the president the authority to confront Saddam Hussein. I think Saddam Hussein was a very serious threat. I stand by that, and that's why we stand behind our vote on the resolution."



I'd rather see a little equal-opportunity Dem bashing, if we're going to get into it.

jpaul256

jpaul256

Spring, TX
June 2006

OCT 16, 2007 05:46 PM

farva said:
You gotta love FTR...

Rags on one option while discussing not even one alternative, forms an opinion of a politician by looking at one aspect of her agenda and takes every possibly-sinister action and carries it illogically forward to its most most extreme outcome.



So I'm not the only one that thinks FTR is the worst possible excuse for a "columnist"? That he is a profane juvenile who has never posted a column on this site that has something positive to say? That his sole purpose in having this column is to tear down other people, positions, and ideas?

You cannot be an agent for positive change if your sole MO is in the destruction of everything around you.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

OCT 16, 2007 06:25 PM

Frankly, I'm not concerned about Clinton's electability. I'm concerned about whether or not she *should* be elected. I think not, personally.

madbax

madbax

Nome, TX
March 2005

OCT 16, 2007 06:37 PM

jpaul256 said:

farva said:
You gotta love FTR...

Rags on one option while discussing not even one alternative, forms an opinion of a politician by looking at one aspect of her agenda and takes every possibly-sinister action and carries it illogically forward to its most most extreme outcome.



So I'm not the only one that thinks FTR is the worst possible excuse for a "columnist"? That he is a profane juvenile who has never posted a column on this site that has something positive to say? That his sole purpose in having this column is to tear down other people, positions, and ideas?

You cannot be an agent for positive change if your sole MO is in the destruction of everything around you.



FTR is not a columnist. Actually, this is the ranting of an intolerant, abusive, mentally deficient, psudo-intellectual, typical, blogger coward,nihilist. Instead of conforming society to his perveted views he needs to seek serious psycological help to figure out who molested him.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

OCT 16, 2007 06:45 PM

malkav11 said:
Frankly, I'm not concerned about Clinton's electability. I'm concerned about whether or not she *should* be elected. I think not, personally.



I honestly would not be surprised if she ended up being removed from office or assassinated if she was elected.

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