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  • THURSDAY MAY 17 2007 8:00 PM

Conservatives Get A Piñata Style Beat Down

Submitted by FearTheReaper

Edited by Rahodeb

Tags: Immigration, Bush, Congress



The White House and some members of Congress have reached an agreement on immigration reform that would grant legal status to millions of people who have illegally crashed our party. Apparently lawmakers have been meeting secretly and only today revealed the fruit of their naughty bargaining.

The deal mandates increased border security and creates a new “Z visa,” which would put immigrants on track to get citizenship in 8 to 13 years. They would have to pay fees and a $5,000 fine and also return to their home country first. What could possibly be a problem in that scenario? Most immigrants have thousands of dollars lying around and would not at all be suspicious of leaving and coming back.

The plan would create an immigration system based on skills, education levels and job experience. The current system emphasizes family ties. Low-skilled immigrants would be forced to return home after two years in the US. They could renew their visas twice, but would have to leave for a year in between. If they wanted to become citizens they could apply for a green card under a point system.

One big reason to reject the plan is that Bush supports it. Everything he touches turns to shit and this would be no different.


President Bush said the proposal would "help enforce our borders but equally importantly, it'll treat people with respect. This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity.”


Liberals and conservatives came out against the reform plan. Liberals say the proposal is unworkable and unfair, while conservatives are losing their minds over the idea of amnesty. Take a look at what the kids on the Free Republic website are saying.


dEPORT tHE pRESIDENT aND cLOSE tHE bORDERS.


Interesting idea. We're going to table it.


Hail it all you want Mr. President you just lost a lot of my support. What an absolute disgust with all politicians. Can’t trust those who your supposed to have confidence in.


Nor can you trust grammar, apparently.


High-tech employment? Show me how many of the 12 million could even work in “high-tech”. Get rid of the idea of being born here makes a person a citizen. The 14th ammendment that states that was only for the black slaves, not immagrants.


Note: I, FearTheReaper, hate "immagrants" too.


Good Lord, how many more do they intend to bring into the country? Isn't 30-50 million enough for them? The sorry bast*rds. They're traitors to America/Americans. I hope they rot in hell.


30-50 million is a big difference. That's a twenty million spread. I'm going to need you to pick an exact exaggeration.


I’m done with him on this and many other issues. I’ll never vote for him again. Illegal invaders are going to kill us all.


I pretty sure this guy is talking about the Visogoths, in which case he should be on another forum.


Si, claro que si, el guapo presidente.


Somebody whipped out the mother fucking translator! BAM!


I’m startin’ to get on board with the impeachment folks. Treason is the reason.


They finally get around to talking about impeachment and it’s over immigration. Gotta love the conservatives.

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Comments
herbancowboy

herbancowboy

Houston, TX
June 2004

MAY 17, 2007 11:18 PM

FearTheReaper said:
I'm going to need you to pick an exact exaggeration.


biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

MAY 17, 2007 11:19 PM

lol--that sounds about right...

JunkyardAngel

JunkyardAngel

San Gabriel, CA
February 2006

MAY 17, 2007 11:37 PM

KUNGFOO said:

Telluride said:
Hmm...

I don't think this is a "beat down" for conservatives as much as it's a "beat down" for people who are extremely liberal or extremely conservative with regard to immigration reform. This plan appears to be more strict than what the far left wants and less strict than what the far right wants.

That's how I see it, anyway.



It feels like a bunch of divorce lawyers got together to come up with this bill.

"Well, I'll let them ultimately stay in the country if they leave then come back."

"They leave and they come right back?"

"No, how about they leave for 5 years and then they can come back, just to make sure they want to really live in America."

"That's a bit long, how about a year and we'll give you they have to pay the government $500?"

"No."

"Okay, how about $5,000?"

"Deal."

Everybody's happy... right?



Oh my Ghod [sik]: KUNG FOO FOR EL PRESIDENTE!

You nailed it! Divorce lawyers!

Ha ha ha ha ha.....

HoneyBadger

HoneyBadger

USA
July 2006

MAY 17, 2007 11:47 PM

I have a "modest proposal" we should find a way to turn illegal immigrants into a power source for our cars. That way we can solve the immigration problem and the oil problem.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

MAY 17, 2007 11:49 PM

Or we could just feed them to the homeless...

skeptik

skeptik

New Orleans, LA
February 2004

MAY 17, 2007 11:56 PM

emotedcreations said:
Or we could just feed them to the homeless...



No, no, no.

Feed the homeless to them. Then make gasoline out of 'em.

Kill three birds with one stone.

DannyDMc

DannyDMc

Fargo, ND
July 2003

MAY 18, 2007 12:03 AM

KUNGFOO said:

Telluride said:
Hmm...

I don't think this is a "beat down" for conservatives as much as it's a "beat down" for people who are extremely liberal or extremely conservative with regard to immigration reform. This plan appears to be more strict than what the far left wants and less strict than what the far right wants.

That's how I see it, anyway.



It feels like a bunch of divorce lawyers got together to come up with this bill.

"Well, I'll let them ultimately stay in the country if they leave then come back."

"They leave and they come right back?"

"No, how about they leave for 5 years and then they can come back, just to make sure they want to really live in America."

"That's a bit long, how about a year and we'll give you they have to pay the government $500?"

"No."

"Okay, how about $5,000?"

"Deal."

Everybody's happy... right?



Yep, thats called "Politics" and "Compromise" which is really much preferable to the alterantives in my mind. smile You should read a biography on Henry Clay and see all the shit he had to go through to pull the different sides together in his day.

In all honesty, I don't have too much problem with this bill at all. Its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and Bush supporting it is a knock against it, but even so; its much better trhan anothing at this point.

DannyDMc

DannyDMc

Fargo, ND
July 2003

MAY 18, 2007 12:06 AM

skeptik said:

emotedcreations said:
Or we could just feed them to the homeless...



No, no, no.

Feed the homeless to them. Then make gasoline out of 'em.

Kill three birds with one stone.



What a Modest Proposal! *slaps knee* I'm so funny, I crack myself up! biggrin

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

MAY 18, 2007 12:23 AM

skeptik said:

emotedcreations said:
Or we could just feed them to the homeless...



No, no, no.

Feed the homeless to them. Then make gasoline out of 'em.

Kill three birds with one stone.


No, I believe you have to feed the Mexicans to the homeless. Their Mexican constitution is more likely to produce the proper methane output for energy usage (get it, Mexican food?)

baudot

baudot

Oakland, CA
February 2004

MAY 18, 2007 01:56 AM

The Shrub has always stood for sensible immigration reform, even taking sides against his own party at times to make the point. It's one of the very few points I agree with him on. The rest of his presidency may be an unmitigated disaster, but let's let him have the one thing he's done right respected as such.

Daradon

Daradon

Calgary, AB
July 2006

MAY 18, 2007 04:07 AM

The idea isn't terrible in merit, maybe a few tweaks here and there. I do think it's unworkable though. It's problem isn't it's morals per se, but I don't see how it could be a successful program.

There's nothing wrong with a trial program for people who want to enter anywhere. The world is getting pretty populated, all those with the proper ideals (which is to say most of them) would have no problems with the rules.

Ease up on the fine, lower the years to become a citizen and you got something that is actually a decent deal.

However I still don't think it would be workable. People will sneak in anyway, and people on the other side will take advantage of their illegal status.

Gonna take some outside the box thinking on this one I think. This might be one of the issues the U.S. has where I can really see both sides. That said, the extremes on both sides are just hateful (on the right) and stupid (on the left). Gotta find a fair balance here.

ZPO

ZPO

Roy, WA
July 2004

MAY 18, 2007 05:32 AM

Daradon said:
The idea isn't terrible in merit, maybe a few tweaks here and there. I do think it's unworkable though. It's problem isn't it's morals per se, but I don't see how it could be a successful program.

There's nothing wrong with a trial program for people who want to enter anywhere. The world is getting pretty populated, all those with the proper ideals (which is to say most of them) would have no problems with the rules.

Ease up on the fine, lower the years to become a citizen and you got something that is actually a decent deal.

However I still don't think it would be workable. People will sneak in anyway, and people on the other side will take advantage of their illegal status.

Gonna take some outside the box thinking on this one I think. This might be one of the issues the U.S. has where I can really see both sides. That said, the extremes on both sides are just hateful (on the right) and stupid (on the left). Gotta find a fair balance here.



Why ease up on the fine and/or lower the years to become a citizen?

Please keep in mind that illegal aliens are by definition here illegally. The have no reasonable expectation that they should get special breaks. Making them leave and then reenter legally is a good compromise. Requiring them to pay a fine is also a fair compromise. Setting the level of that fine commensurate with the direct costs of administering the program makes excellent sense. Why should U.S. taxpayers foot the bill for the costs of immigration?


Will people still enter the U.S illegally - yep. Find them, deport them, repeat as necessary.

Basing the visa process on skills and value to the U.S economy - excellent idea. Family reunification can work both ways. If families want to be reunified the ones in the US can return home. If workers with needed skills want to come to the U.S. I'm all for it.

Telluride

Telluride

Roseville, CA
May 2007

MAY 18, 2007 06:39 AM

baudot said:
The Shrub has always stood for sensible immigration reform, even taking sides against his own party at times to make the point. It's one of the very few points I agree with him on. The rest of his presidency may be an unmitigated disaster, but let's let him have the one thing he's done right respected as such.



Here's the thing, though...

I think it's unlikely that we would be able to find and deport 10 - 20 million illegal aliens...but a lot of people would argue that it isn't sensible to reward violators of our immigration laws with legal status. If we're going to make something a crime (such as illegal immigration), then the consequences of that crime should serve as a deterrent rather than an encouragement.

It just seems silly to me to basically say, "You'd better not come here illegally. But if you do...we'll let you stay." I can't think of too many other crimes that are dealt with in this manner. I think it's a very contradictory stance that isn't particularly fair to Americans or even to people who come here illegally.

Daradon

Daradon

Calgary, AB
July 2006

MAY 18, 2007 07:11 AM

ZPO said:

Daradon said:
The idea isn't terrible in merit, maybe a few tweaks here and there. I do think it's unworkable though. It's problem isn't it's morals per se, but I don't see how it could be a successful program.

There's nothing wrong with a trial program for people who want to enter anywhere. The world is getting pretty populated, all those with the proper ideals (which is to say most of them) would have no problems with the rules.

Ease up on the fine, lower the years to become a citizen and you got something that is actually a decent deal.

However I still don't think it would be workable. People will sneak in anyway, and people on the other side will take advantage of their illegal status.

Gonna take some outside the box thinking on this one I think. This might be one of the issues the U.S. has where I can really see both sides. That said, the extremes on both sides are just hateful (on the right) and stupid (on the left). Gotta find a fair balance here.



Why ease up on the fine and/or lower the years to become a citizen?

Please keep in mind that illegal aliens are by definition here illegally. The have no reasonable expectation that they should get special breaks. Making them leave and then reenter legally is a good compromise. Requiring them to pay a fine is also a fair compromise. Setting the level of that fine commensurate with the direct costs of administering the program makes excellent sense. Why should U.S. taxpayers foot the bill for the costs of immigration?


Will people still enter the U.S illegally - yep. Find them, deport them, repeat as necessary.

Basing the visa process on skills and value to the U.S economy - excellent idea. Family reunification can work both ways. If families want to be reunified the ones in the US can return home. If workers with needed skills want to come to the U.S. I'm all for it.



I agree, I don't find anything wrong with your principles. I might not be for them, but you can't argue against them. They are here (there) illegally and they know they are.

I'm merely looking for a middle ground that will help the situation. Maybe the better of two evils for you. Cause the current deal is obviously not working. I don't think fences are the answer either. What would be your solution? You had some great points, but are simple rules workable? I'm not sure. Like I said, I wasn't sure any were, not even mine.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

MAY 18, 2007 07:20 AM

Does anyone know of a good website where I can compare US immigration law with other developed countries? Maybe pick up a tip or two?

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