WTF? Um. No I was saying that an expectant mother does bear responsibility for her unborn child. However, if she is going to have an abortion or not carry the child to term then using meth while pregnant is an issue of personal choice.

Exactly. I don't think the pregnant women are beeing locked up for using, but for endangering babies. Crack is bad enough, but the severe damage of amphetamines was well-documented in the 1940s, merely a decade after Benzedrine was first introduced for respiratory ailments. It has caused debilitating neurological damage, sort of gelling neurons and leading to Parkinsonian symptoms or worse. Introducing something like that to a baby just can't be good. The baby can be fucked up forever, so unless the offspring is still considered part of the mother's body when it is grown, it is no longer an issue of a woman's right to do something to her own body and amounts to child endangerment at the least.

Now, whether locking the women up will help is debatable; perhaps a methhead somewhere will hear of antoher going to jail and stop using while she's pregnant, but I think offering help to the mother would be more effective than incarceration.

Being in the medical field, I've sen the harm drugs can do to children just as I've seen addicts receive help and then help other addicts. I think a chain reaction like that would help more than jail.

If meth use while pregnant does damage to an unborn child and the woman is going to carry the baby to term then she is doing damage to something that isn't her own body. . . .
a woman can do what ever she wants to an unborn child (who is going to be born, I generally don't believe in restricting a woman's right to abortion) should fall under the protection of a person's right to do with their body as they please because by the very nature of reproduction the child won't be part of her body forever.

While she's pregnant, it's part of her body. Sorry. Take it up with god.

I truly hope that "smoke and drank while pregnant" comment was a joke. If not, you should be locked up along with the meth moms.

There you go: intellectual consistency. I did, indeed, smoke and drink while I was pregnant. Contrary to the propaganda y'all hear every damn day, neither smoking nor alcohol--nor, for that matter, meth--inevitably damages a fetus. My son weighed ten pounds and had an apgar score of 10/10, thankyouverymuch.

If you think that my kid--or any other kid--would be better off with his mama in jail based solely on her behavior while pregnant, then you can fuck off.

drugs and their use and potential abuse are public health issues. point blank. something we must not allow ourselves to forget is that prisons are a big business, and are only about making money. if they were really about rehabilitation and helping people to turn their lives around, then we wouldn't be having nearly as many problems with crime as we do. most drugs are illegal for racist reasons in the first place. prisons should be reserved for murders, rapists, and government officials who lie, cheat, steal, and kill. a large percentage of the people in prison right now are in there for drugs, which are non-violent offenses. most of the money poured into the prison system ought to be spent on healthcare and education. if people had more knowledge and skills, and fewer illness and legal problems, i think we would see improvements in our society. the more constructive things people can do with their time, the less time they have for things like meth, crack, and other types of societal hazards. any government that spends more to build prisons than they do to improve schools is setting its citizens up to go to jail.

I couldn't even read past this little gem.


Whatever you might've said after that, it's totally invalidated.

Ok, ok, I read a little more and it's more of the same. Drugs are illegal because of racism? Man, there's just conspiracies everywhere, huh?

Buh? I thought prisons were run by state and/or federal government. How the hell are they big business?

at least a few prisons are privately run.

Private Prisons

Also, this is a really thorny issue. Yes, meth is bad for anybody. Nobody should take it. Period. Should they throw a woman in jail if she does meth while pregnant? I guess it depends- is she doing it because she's addicted and can't stop, or is she doing it simply because she doesn't give a fuck? If you can figure out the difference between the two, send the addicts to rehab, and toss the others in jail. Addiction is treatable, but being a shitty human being usually isn't.

I have been around meth users most of my life. It is a horrible drug that should be done away with once and for all. I have seen the drug fuck peoples lives up so much that they can't even function. I have seen mothers choose meth over their children. The women should not be put in jail, but they do need to seek help.

Well, how 'bout that. I guess the picture I have in my head when I hear the word "prison" is hardwired to "The Shawshank Redemption".

yea, mine too.

Calypso said:
I'm sick of all this "addiction is a disease" bullshit. It is not a goddamned disease. It is a weakness, a crutch. And you know what? It's okay to be weak, and it's okay to falter.
/QUOTE]

Damn Calypso, you rock.

Drug addiction a disease? Right, and my porn addiction is a disease as well, any ladies willing to help me out with a lil rehab? ;P

If the mother is on meth at all: before, during or after the pregnancy she is going to be on it for the rest of her life or until the following happens:

-She dies
-An intervention takes place
-She goes into rehab on her own

Again, let me ask, whats the difference between this and smacking your child for misbehaving? That will easily get your child taken away, but doing drugs. Oh no, let the child live in a house riddled with one of the most dangerous drugs out there.

The person who made the "un-fuck the earth" comment, high-five to you as well.

Should the meth addicted mothers go to jail? No
Should the child be subject to a house with drugs? No
Should there be a potential for the child to grow up with slight or extreme retardation? No

I can't believe how selfish some of you women are, you just want to pop out as many babies as you want, how you want and when you want, but you don't want to handle the responsibility for bringing into the world a child who has the potential to not live a full and healthy life.

And to Bitch_PhD, I can't believe how utterly callous you are about the fact you smoked and drank while pregnant; that statement you made seems more of a brag than a statement of fact.

How many more Truth commercials do we need to see; how many more rock starts need to die due to drugs; and how many people do we need to meet who had parents that were drunk all the time and abused their children before we start taking action against the parents.

Also, I don't know about FEd'l or State prisons, but here our County Jail gets funds from the state pushing on 200 bucks per inmate per day, plus the inmates pay asmall sum, $10 first day, $2 a day after that, $5 for a nurse check, $10 for a doctor (and these exams are a joke and my friend nearly died becausehis pacemaker battery died and they didn't do anything about it and told him he didn't need his heart meds so his heart rate was 21 BPM, and there are many other instances of withholding meds and treatment to save money. The inmates have a farm, form which produce is sold for more money and the inmates fed donations from local schools and such. A favourite ploy is to hold someone pending trial longer than the4ir maximum sentence; e.g. expired or lack of vehicle registration is a 30 day sentence, but if you can't make bail you might stay for 90 days pending court. They are always hundreds of inmates over the maximum with inmates sleeping on floors usually over 70 to a cell. The only fruit is half a banana once or twice a week and there is very little protein, mostly carbs. My then 73 year old mother was stopped for an expired tag and was promptly cursed out by the cop and told he could throw her sorry ass in jail for a month. She had just moved down from NJ where the renewal date is on the day you first registered it, and here it's on your birthday and she didn't realize it.

The point is, the longer they keep you in county, the more cash they get. It may not fit the definition of big business, but is most assuredly a business.

Oh, get over yourselves. My kid's just fine; bright as a fucking tack. You have no idea how *much* I drank or smoked, and you clearly don't know much about the actual incidence of fetal alcohol syndrome (hint: very, very low) or the science on FAS, smoking while pregnant, or drug use while pregnant--all of which is actually quite conflicted and amounts, more or less, to "high levels of exposure seem to result in these adverse effects, but not always." We *don't* understand exactly how the mechanisms of chemical exposures in utero work, nor do we know for sure what the frequency or longevity of any effects are. If you want to assert otherwise, go right ahead, but at least acknowledge that you're more interested in being on some moral high horse than you actually are in the problem.