And with what are we going to get tough,

All our toys are in Iraq.

I don't think that's true edmun.

lol, military force into n. korea is suicide for s. korea. they have enough artillery to put seoul into the stone age in 2 days.

true, N Korea does have lots of artillery, but that doesn't necessarily mean that N Korea will win. the British burnt Washington DC to the ground (at least the parts of it important to self-governing), but you don't see the Queen on our money, do you?

if Seoul and Pyongyang ever slug it out, i believe that the war will be won or lost within a week. if it's still going after a week, then the North will have won by default. see, it's like this: Pyongyang's got a huge military, but they're shit. poorly-equipped, poorly-trained. Seoul, on the other hand, has all of the US's hand-me-downs, and a few of our newer toys that we're letting them borrow--and they're well-trained in using them. so if it comes down to fisticuffs, the South will eat the North for fucking lunch.

but Pyongyang fights dirty. they'll bombard the upper half of South Korea with short-term chemical and biological weapons--nasty shit that will turn you to goo, but will break down into non-toxic compounds after a day or two. the bottom half of South Korea, they'll turn into a deadly wasteland with persistent NBC weapons--nastier shit that will turn you into goo, and will still be turning your kids into goo ten years from now. that will seriously hamper any attempts by outside forces--like the US--to reinforce and resupply the front lines of the war.

so what it comes down to is, can the US/ROK coalition protect themselves from the DPRK's NBC attacks well enough and long enough to turn Pyongyang's army into a smoldering waste? or can Pyongyang keep Seoul on the defensive long enough to cut off their supply lines?

at least, that's my take on how things would work.

motorfirebox said:
true, N Korea does have lots of artillery, but that doesn't necessarily mean that N Korea will win. the British burnt Washington DC to the ground (at least the parts of it important to self-governing), but you don't see the Queen on our money, do you?

huh? is N Korea an imperialist power that colonized S Korea? what are you talking about? does this analogy serve any purpose whatsoever?

I think his point is that even if North Korea reduced Seoul to smoldering ruin, they'd still lose the war.

Not that that would be any consolation to the residents of Seoul.

Though it would probably create one of the worst humanitarian crises ever. In Seoul and it's surrounding satelite cities, suburbs, boroughs and what-have-yous, there's 20 million people and all the industry, infrastructure and technology which comes along with supporting the world's most Wired society.

South Korea as it is now, does not have the resources to be self sustaining for its 40+ million citizens crammed into an area about a third the size of the UK. With trade and supplies disrupted and a first world citizenry more used to McDonald's and Multiplexes than refugee columns and rations, the consequences of 20 million internally displaced people would be completely and utterly disasterous to the economy and the society of South Korea. Millions would die in this scenario, be it from starvation or ordinance.

Militarily, I think the South could take on the North and win.... But the price of victory would be unbearable. I think what it comes down to in the end is that it's a lose/lose situation. Destroy the village to save it so to speak.

And this doesn't even mention what would happen in the North. In the last war, every single building in Pyeongyang was destroyed--not a brick left to stand on another brick. It could potentially be much worse this time around.

No one wants to see that. Least of all myself because i actually live here and am quite fond of the little kids i teach every day.

I just hope that Kim Jong Il is not as crazy a little bastard as we fear and that people realize the only choice is diplomacy.

Yes, that's more or less what my last remark was meant to imply. The question isn't really who would win, but whether the victory would be worth the price the South would have to pay for it. Which is precisely why Kim wants WMDs - they're pretty much the only card in his hand.

guys like Kim are why god invented assassins. i mean, sure, in general, it's not a great idea to go around whacking heads of state that piss you off. but Kim brings nothing good to the table. he's like some kind of James Bond villain. dude just straight up needs to die for the good of the planet. the only real problem would be setting up a government once he's gone--it'd be too easy for some shitty little punk general to step up and set himself up as a new Kim.

This pictures contains all American Bases in South Korea. I'll be at Kunsan AB from May '07 To May '08. I'm considered lucky. There is a rumor (from the people I work with who have already spent their year there) that every possible senario to protect Seoul from N. Korea has failed. Osan has the nicname of 'speed bump.' It's supposed to slow the N. Koreans down so our other bases and the ones in Japan can attempt to push the North back. This is the one place in the world I don't want to be.



I've heard a story (not verified) that during the Korean Conflict N. Koreans captured Osan, and when we pushed them back, all the flightline maintainers (who launched out their jets for CAS until they could get evacuated) were grouped in one hangar and killed. I've tried to look for verification but was unsucseccful. Some parts do match though. Like the squadron at Kadena in Japan that has a ghost tail flash with the letters ZZ on their F-15's (bases have a 2 letter tail flash in dark paint ie. Shaw's is SW). Theirs is in white paint. They are also nicnamed the chicken squadron. (for taking off then leaving for cover.)

(I'll call some people at Shaw and see if they can get me hard facts, I'm on leave)

From the news, I'm getting the impression N. Korea and Kim Jong II doesn't care what the world thinks. If they want a bomb they're gonna have one. They think no one has the balls to stop them.

What country is going to be the first to start a nuclear holocaust?

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the "speedbump" thing is something the armed forces there like to toss around (Cp Humphreys and Cp Eagle 01-04, baby!), i guess because gloom and doom predictions make duty there seem more romantic. and there really is a lot of gloom and doom to go around, most of it related to the fact that the civilian population of Seoul is up shit creek if Pyongyang ever gets uppity. the military, though, both ROK and US, have a decent chance of coming out on top.

There is a reason real estate is more valuable south of the Han River.