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  • THURSDAY AUGUST 24 2006 11:00 PM

More Dirty Tricks From The Jesus People

Submitted by FearTheReaper

Edited by FearTheReaper

Tags: Bush, Evolution, intelligent design, Department of Education

We have a president who believes intelligent design should be taught in school because he is a crazy evangelical. And now suddenly, and without explanation, evolutionary biology has disappeared from a grant list of acceptable fields of study for low-income college students. Poof! Gone.

The Department of Education insists the removal was an accident and the major should be on the list. The omission was discovered on August 15th but it still has not been corrected. Not having evolutionary biology on the list has a great impact. If any major is not on the list, students cannot get grants unless they declare another major.

The list is specifically designed so majors cannot be left off. Each major is assigned a number, which translates to a code. That code must be used to pick a major or grants will not be given. A major cannot just be written into the list. Evolutionary biology is assigned the number 26.1303. But currently between marine biology 26.1302, and aquatic biology 26.1304, is an empty space.

The omission concerns scientists who are already upset about attacks on the teaching of evolution in schools. An anonymous source at the Department of Education drew professor Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss’ attention to the matter but was too worried about being identified to blow the whistle on their own. Given the current climate many scientists do not believe the removal was a clerical error.


Dr. Krauss said: “Removing that one major is not going to make the nation stupid, but if this really was removed, specifically removed, then I see it as part of a pattern to put ideology over knowledge. And, especially in the Department of Education, that should be abhorred.”

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NewSpectre

NewSpectre

Baltimore, MD
March 2005

AUG 25, 2006 08:17 AM

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:25 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.



Because public schools do not teach "theology". They may teach comparative religion, or even philosophy, but theology is what you go to church for. It has no place in a public education.

NewSpectre

NewSpectre

Baltimore, MD
March 2005

AUG 25, 2006 08:27 AM

NickFaust said:

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.



Because public schools do not teach "theology". They may teach comparative religion, or even philosophy, but theology is what you go to church for. It has no place in a public education.



I think you don't know the meaning of the word. Whether you call the class "comparative religion" or whatever, it's still theology.

It doesn't even have to be a mandatory class, in fact, it shouldn't be. But it's not offered at most school. I went toa new school pretty much every year growing up and not 1 of the schools I went to offered a class anything like that.

Why not?

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:30 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.



nobody's stopping you from taking a theology class in college. the people that are actually interested in high schools teaching creationism are mostly adults and evangelicals that graduated high school decades ago.

also, if you can teach a non-science like creationism in our science classes, then we should be able to teach evolution at sunday school. it's only fair. as it is now, though, evolutionary science has no place in religion, and christian creationism has no place in the science classroom.

that's what this debate is about, not "theology in general." i'm sure there are specialized classes in some high schools (and colleges) that teach world theology, but this is entirely different. this is one religious group attempting to pass off its own theology as not only science, but also as a necessity for all american students to learn. it's completely inappropriate to have that in academia.

Eternalxile

Eternalxile

Irving, TX
March 2003

AUG 25, 2006 08:30 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

Eternalxile said:
That's because you don't live in the American "Bible Belt", where "The word of God is the law of the land" and more people believe that the Bible is 100% fact than they belive a high school science text book is 100% fact.



Actually I was born in San Antonio, went to elementry school in Texas, Illinios, and Florida, middle school in Florida and Arkansas, and high school in Arkansas. Then I went to college at Texas A&M, arguably one of the most conservative schools in the country.

So I have a pretty solid base of reference.



You lived here and never heard that stuff? lucky bastard. I get hit over the head with that claptrap on a daily basis.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:31 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:
So I have a pretty solid base of reference.



Apparently not. I have heard people seriously maintain that, and I don't even live in the Bible Belt.

SpectreInTheUK said:
then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.



Theology's not science, either, there's no compelling factual reason to teach it, and it's impossible to separate it from a specific religion. We gave the barbarians homeschooling, but that's of course not enough for them - they have to shove their idiot Book down our throats no matter what.

conservative said:

Can you believe it and they are the people that built this great country and made it what it is today. There's no way that can't be, our society was so good back then, there's no way they could have read the bible. [sic]

So all you screaming liberals out there that are removing the church from everything understand that you are destroying our country and our society.



[Emphasis added]

What. The. Fuck.

This is the quality of "reasoning" the reactionaries engage in. No concept of history, reality, human behavior, or anything remotely real. Just a cartoonish denunciation of "screaming liberals" who are "destroying society" for apparently no reason whatsoever beyond our own incurable perversity. It's a small step from that to, say, stuffing us into ovens for the good of Christendom.

Fuck your Jesus.

NewSpectre

NewSpectre

Baltimore, MD
March 2005

AUG 25, 2006 08:33 AM

Eternalxile said:

SpectreInTheUK said:

Eternalxile said:
That's because you don't live in the American "Bible Belt", where "The word of God is the law of the land" and more people believe that the Bible is 100% fact than they belive a high school science text book is 100% fact.



Actually I was born in San Antonio, went to elementry school in Texas, Illinios, and Florida, middle school in Florida and Arkansas, and high school in Arkansas. Then I went to college at Texas A&M, arguably one of the most conservative schools in the country.

So I have a pretty solid base of reference.



You lived here and never heard that stuff? lucky bastard. I get hit over the head with that claptrap on a daily basis.



oh, I got a good dose of creationism. But never "the devil made the dinosour bones" or "dinosours lived in the garden of eden."

Idjit

Idjit

HOPEFUL

I'm lost

AUG 25, 2006 08:33 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.



They do. Even my High School in ultra-liberal Santa Barbara, CA had a Bible As Literature class (which I took). We also had a World Religions class - as do most public Colleges. Strawman much?

Idjit

Idjit

HOPEFUL

I'm lost

AUG 25, 2006 08:35 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

Eternalxile said:

SpectreInTheUK said:

Eternalxile said:
That's because you don't live in the American "Bible Belt", where "The word of God is the law of the land" and more people believe that the Bible is 100% fact than they belive a high school science text book is 100% fact.



Actually I was born in San Antonio, went to elementry school in Texas, Illinios, and Florida, middle school in Florida and Arkansas, and high school in Arkansas. Then I went to college at Texas A&M, arguably one of the most conservative schools in the country.

So I have a pretty solid base of reference.



You lived here and never heard that stuff? lucky bastard. I get hit over the head with that claptrap on a daily basis.



oh, I got a good dose of creationism. But never "the devil made the dinosour bones" or "dinosours lived in the garden of eden."



Read modern creationist "theory" and you'll see all sorts of whackiness. My favorite one is that the dinosaurs were even on Noah's Ark, but they were babies. This conveniently ignores the fact that Noah's Ark was on the open seas for about a year - in which time the Dinosaurs would have been fullgrown. But, hey... the Devil's in the details as well, or so I hear.

Julian_Delphinki

Julian_Delphinki

Tijeras, NM
June 2005

AUG 25, 2006 08:37 AM

crispy said:
Is it 2008 yet?



In '08 we can kill bush without martyring his stupid ass mad

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:39 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

NickFaust said:

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.



Because public schools do not teach "theology". They may teach comparative religion, or even philosophy, but theology is what you go to church for. It has no place in a public education.



I think you don't know the meaning of the word. Whether you call the class "comparative religion" or whatever, it's still theology.

It doesn't even have to be a mandatory class, in fact, it shouldn't be. But it's not offered at most school. I went toa new school pretty much every year growing up and not 1 of the schools I went to offered a class anything like that.

Why not?


From Answers.com

the·ol·o·gy (th%u0113-%u014Fl'%u0259-j%u0113)
n., pl. -gies.
The study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions.
A system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions: Protestant theology; Jewish theology.

Get it? The nature of GOD. Comparative religion is a course looking at the emprical differences between different religions.

Theology is the study of spiritual questions, its purpose is to be clear about religous doctrine.

It has no place in a public education.

dpalmacci

dpalmacci

Leominster, MA
April 2006

AUG 25, 2006 08:41 AM

emotedcreations said:

magpieboy said:
yeah, fuck that shit. Clerical error... I'll show you a "clerical error". This frightens me, mostly because as a biologist I realize HOW important it is to understand and study evolution, and because I realize how few people out there actually have a clue or can divorce the issue of evolution from the issue of their faith. Dobzhansy: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution" or something near that. And they want to take money away from people who want to study it. Sorry... this is just a rant. I don't want to be paranoid, but I think I am now... it's WAY to close to home for me.



Also as a scientist, I understand your passion. Evolution is the simplest and most effeicient way of understanding the course of natural history and it's variety of forms. But you forget, that's just the Devil tricking you. I KNOW, as a matter of course, he put 'dem dinasour bones there to make yer head reel, and tuh confoose you-- all 'cause he hates the big man upstairs.

Remember, simplest explanation--clerical error. Right? I'm right? Right? There's no way THEY could be that bold? There out to get us! Ahhh...But then again, just 'cause you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. te hehehehe







LOL, that's awesome. Well, my 2 cents... yeah I am spiritual, but these christian nuts need to back off. I'm all for stem cell research, biological studies, I love science. Point is though; I rather not argue about where we came from but how about we work together on where we're going?

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:42 AM

Idjiit said:

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.



They do. Even my High School in ultra-liberal Santa Barbara, CA had a Bible As Literature class (which I took). We also had a World Religions class - as do most public Colleges. Strawman much?


In my AP English class in public school in the ultra-liberal Bay Area, we had a Bible as Literature unit.

Public schools are not prohibited from teaching comparitive religion or anything of the sort. They simply choose not to because they are generally underfunded and why have a class about something that people are generally going to learn at church anyway.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:44 AM

SpectreInTheUK said:

Idjiit said:

conservative said:
You know it is amazing that we can teach evolution but we cannot teach creationism.



You can teach creationism, just not in a science class. Creationism isn't science.



then why don't public schools have any sort of theology classes in them? at least none of the schools I ever went to. Maybe not necessarily christian theology, but just theology in general.

If you had a class like that, where lessons in Creationism fit better, then we might not even be having this argument.



Errr...just about any high school of any merit has a class where you can study the bible, or world religions.

Any other bullshit you want to pull out of your ass?

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

AUG 25, 2006 08:49 AM

conservative said:
So all you screaming liberals out there that are removing the church from everything understand that you are destroying our country and our society. That is a fact. When religion begins to be removed from society and science takes over that is the beginning of the end. If you don't believe me look at all the great societies of the past, the Romans are the best to look at because we are the most like them and we are walking down the same path.



How about this--show me where the Romans (ha!) "removed religion" before they fell. You can't, because that ain't how it happened, genius.

If I were more of a wise guy, I'd point out that the Roman empire fell around the same time that Chritianity started, so by your own sad excuse for logic, one could say that Christianity destroys cilvilizations.

BTW, how does this site figure in to your devoutness, padre?

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