the same people who argue that the mission has been accomplished are the people now saying that it will take time.
it's the same people who talked about flowers and chocolates being give to our troops. of course these things take time. GENERATIONS. again, this was a counter-argument to this elective war. for the same people to turn around and use it to tut-tut critics (many of whom were originally tut-tuted for saying the same thing 3 years ago) is invalid.

this war wasn't sold on "it's going to take a long time, it was sold on "we're doing regime change, not nation building."

why is it that the president's words are written off as inconsequential while his critics are subjected to such a level of parsing? shouldn't the higher burden be on the one with the power?

for the second part, even an idiot would know that using both arguments would get you into trouble. the president is simply audacious enough to get away with it, knowing that the press isn't going to call him on it.

Thank you. Yes...I agree :-)

Yes...it should :-) I suspect it has to do with the fact that the President's news conferences are generally filled with reporters known not to throw truly difficult, controversial, or confrontational questions at him.

When a reporter begins to do that, they find that...even though they are never outright denied access to the President...they cannot get reasonable access to him (poor seating, cannot get called upon for questions, interview requests are not accepted by him OR his staff) and the reporter eventually gets reassigned by his/her news agency as he/she becomes useless.

Yes...even worse the American public seems unwilling, or unable, to call him on it either.

Scary...isn't it?

On a lighter note...THIS is fabulous!!!

*Burns everyone alive*

Comments here tend to be fairly predictable. But I wasn't expecting that wld be your plan.

Thank you for letting us know in advance. I will now repent, for I see, the end of the world is at hand.

......use your given logic that whatever happens in those prisons is known and allowed and that any means necessary are given to officials when it comes to getting information or breaking the enemies morale. Do you really think the American government is not involved in any way with the new Iraq government or that the U.S. military played no part in the development of their military and prison system.And from what I remember reading a while ago on a yahoo news page the Pentagon were pretty much disregarding any geneva convention Laws when it came to torture.There are some things which one can presue is true even if it not in writing but if your such a stickler about this then I will try and find it for you.....though sometimes assumptions are right.

pentagon torture .......this interesting.

pentagon tortue in iraq...and this

...and thispentagonignoresgenevaconvention

What gets me are the arguments that the U.S. has nothing to do with these events yet the prisons are visited ,the torture documented bit again nothing has happened.They are not closed down;so it sounds like a unspoken willingness to allow the torture to continue...which seems like involvement to me.

Repeat after me...two spaces after each period. Otherwiseitjustlookslikemushandisalmostcompletelyunreadable.

KThxBye

Do you mean "my" logic (as in me personally) or do you mean "your" logic in the third person plural assumptive? Because "my" logic (personally) seems to get upset when I start making assumptions that if an individual or group of individuals have been found guilty of (for example) theft, therefore they must also be guilty of any and all thefts that occur within a sphere of their influence.

Lucky for my logic circuit, silly things like the constitution, the Bill of Rights, and judicial branch of the United States agree with "my" flavor of logic.

I, in no way, doubt that the U.S. government is deeply involved with the Iraqi government, and it's prison systems...however...

Given the level of assumption through this article, and this entire thread, I am not surprised. See below...

What "gets" me, is the fact that, based on this article...and all information regarding this event discovered so far anywhere in the media...the amount of assumptions being made. So many people seem to flip flop between the government being totally incompetent to the point of negligent ineptitude (see Katrina threads) to suddenly being all-omniscient to the point that (assuming they ARE encouraging torture as methodology)
they are aware of, and personally sanction, every bad pork chop given to an Iraqi inmate.

What "gets" me is how, even if the government is 100% behind this incident, there is not...as of yet...enough information about this event to determine that fact.

And what "gets" me is how personal intuition, personal opinion and personal agenda tend (both on this site and America in general) to take precedent over legitimate journalism and all those rascally facts to the point that I suspect it really wouldn’t matter if one read the articles or not...as the information contained within will only be seen through the microscope of one's already set personal opinions.

Now, the U.S. government ABSOLUTELY controls, without question, the U.S. Federal prison system...however no one argues that they do not know about, to approve or disapprove, every inmate who dies at the hands of unscrupulous, and criminal, justice system employees. But, of course, this could never happen at Iraq. If an inmate is beaten...Bush must have been there personally putting cigarettes out in the bastard's hands.

Point being...the U.S. government may be behind this entirely; or (now here's a surprise) perhaps the prison was left in the hands a of employees born into a culture that has used torture, oppression, and murder as "SOP" for centuries...and they just went on with business as usual. Speculation is wonderful. Opinions are wonderful...however, without the supporting evidence - neither is journalism, nor a debate.

Now, if you have something to debate, with the facts to make the debate valid...by all means, proceed.

OK...that's twice you made me laugh outloud!

+1

Man....


We just so built that new government! Goddammit, now we have to have regime change again, who can we replace these iraqis with?

you forgot the seemingly random punctuation.