US forces stationed on Okinawa are prepared to engage China, Russia, and North Korea. We should work to lower the stress the intallations put on the local population but if we vacated we would either have to find and build a suitable replacement or leave completely. This is not a wise course of action given our defense obligations to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and the west coast of mainland America. Currently power is balanced but if we left who can say what would happen? Perhaps nothing. Perhaps China would shift internally and invade Taiwan and Japan. Perhaps North Korea would invade South Korea. Perhaps they would all become friends. But we would no longer be a position to effect or exploit those changes.

Improve local relations. Do not vacate.

U.S. rejects Philippine request for custody of four Marines charged with rape
Soldiers behaving badly + our "Visiting Forces Agreement" (or "Status of Forces Agreement") is a recurring problem in Okinawa, Philippines, and (IIRC) Korea also.


[Edited on Jan 17, 2006 by GramNegative]

Let me just start off saying that a stint in Fort Levenworth is a lot worse then anything the Japanese or Philippine justice system can dish out.

And I think their is a big difference in an occupation vesus big ass military bases with families of the soldiers living their amongst the populace.

try seeing that from an okinawan point of view

Tip of the Spear.

ill never forget that place. probably the worst 8 months of my life. there were some good times, but the place is just a downer all together.

I fail to see how the U.S. presence is hurting Okinawa financially.

In reality, it's just the opposite.

This past summer, a dumb-as-fuck Air Force NCO molested a 12-year-old girl on the island, and ALL bases had a lock-in while senior staff addressed all the personnel on Okinawa. I believe it was two days, and from what my brother told me, not only did his sergeant major go absolutely fucking apeshit on his men who had nothing to do with it (Marines) as a preventative measure, people on the island were worried that *two days* of no business from American service members would mean several businesses operated by the locals would have to close.

It's a poor island, and while many Okinawans would like to see the U.S. military go, many others know that the Americans bring a lot to the local economy.

Also, this image of thousands of American Gis drunkenly invading downtown at night is not entirely accurate, seeing as how you have to be an E-4 to stay off base past midnight.

It's also worth pointing out that the vast majority of military members stationed in Okinawa are respectful of their hosts and go out of their way to learn local customs and find some common ground with the people in Okinawa.

Is it shitty that every few years a service member does something incredibly fucking stupid? Yes, absolutely. And they should be severely punished. But the military has idiots just like other organizations, and for the sake of this argument we should be clear that this is not a parasitic relationship between the military members and the host island.

Oh. Really. So...US won the war, took the island and stayed. I'm ok with a different term than occupation if it is more accurate. Would "stationed" make you feel better?

Does the U.S. military have ANY jurisdiction, detention or police powers over the residents of Okinawa?

Wait, I can answer that for you! No, it doesn't! See what a simple little exercise like that can achieve?

It's funny because, you know, if this had happened at any other point in history the invading army would have completely taken over the conquered nation, bled it dry economically and placed its citizens under permanent control.

We haven't done any of that. In fact, American tax dollars finance not only the region's major deterrent to China, but to North Korea as well. Want to see how nervous the Japanese are about Kim Jong Il? Wait until the next time he lobs a missile over their country during a "test."

So, again, don't try to portray this as a one-way street where the only party benefitting is the U.S., because that's not true and you know it.

We totally should have raped and pillaged.
Don't they know how good they got it?

In 1972, the administrative rights over Okinawa were returned to Japan.

The Japanese government enacted a specific law to allow the U.S. to continue using the lands that were taken by the U.S. military. As soon as the law expired, the government enacted another law.

The U.S. is in Okinawa by treaty and by statute, and Japan has not asked the U.S. to leave the base. It has asked the U.S. to remove some of its troops, which it has done. The U.S. pays rent, administrative fees, and taxes for its presence in the region. In exchange, the U.S. controls the air space, which certainly is a big deal by any objective measure. U.S. personnel are also shielded from some local laws, which is also a big deal.

This doesn't mean that the people of Okinawa are happy about the U.S. presence, of course - nor should they necessarily be happy about it. It does mean, however, that the U.S. is not "occupying" Okinawa. What we have is a tacit give-away of the region to the U.S. military, which is either a product of necessity in the minds of the Japanese authorities; a product of being afraid to LOSE the U.S. presence due to North Korean sabre-rattling; or perhaps some sort of bargaining chip in the minds of the Japanese. Bargaining for what? I do not know.

That's not what I said, dear sir, and you know it.

My point was -- and is -- that American servicemen are not savages who go around detaining people, raping Japanese women, getting drunk and pissing on Okinawa's sidewalks. AND that the Okinawans benefit economically from the U.S. military presence on an island where other job or business prospects are slim to none. AND we Americans pay for their military security.

You know, when you leave a military base on Okinawa, the protestors hold signs, but they don't yell, they don't get angry and they don't take issue with the service members themselves. They bow, and the GIs bow back.

You and Panoptic should go there yourselves and check out the situation, because you'd probably come back sounding just a bit more informed.

I agreed with most of what you said, but I just hate those "we aren't as bad as others/as we used to be" arguments.

I thought the issue is that some GIs are in fact savages who rape murder and piss on sidewalks. And the natives are pissed cause they don't get to administer justice in their own land.

And I am not denigrating the troops. Every population (especially of young men) has savages who rape murder and piss on sidewalks.

The US Military forces, occupying Okinawa in the Second World War, built their bases by force, sending surviving citizens to concentration camps and taking their land without payment. It was a clear violation of The Hague Convention which prohibits the confiscation of private property even during war, and that obliges nations to pay for the property requisitioned even in the case of military necessity.

Furthermore, since 1953, they have been bulldozing houses and burning them, as they did in the land just after the end of WWII.

According to the statistics of the Japanese Government as well as of Okinawa prefecture, a number of crimes committed by U.S. soldiers for these 30 years has reached around 5,000, and more than 10% of them are violent crimes such as murder, burglaries, and rapes. However, neither Japan's domestic laws nor U.S. laws are applied to the U.S. Forces in Japan, and in fact, U.S. soldiers committing crimes are protected by prerogatives. The crashes and the burning of military airplanes often takes place.

The U.S. bases are also a drag on the Okinawan economy. According to the best estimates, the incomes generated directly or indirectly by the bases are only 5% of the gross domestic product of Okinawa. This is far too small a contribution for an establishment sitting on 20% of Okinawa's land. Given the choice locations of the bases, if these areas were used as part of the civilian market economy, they should yield more than 20% of Okinawa's GDP. In effect, the U.S. and Japan are forcing on Okinawa's economy a deadweight loss of 15% of its GDP every year.

The 15% loss does not include the pressures on land rents in the rest of Okinawa due to the withdrawal of 20% of the area from civilian use; inconveniences to civil air transportation due to restrictions on the use of air space; closures of port facilities and waters to civilian shipping, fishing, or recreational activities because of naval and other military requirements; deadly effects of toxic wastes of the bases seeping into the soil or running off into the sea; deafening noises of bombers, fighters, and helicopters which physically damage young school children and disrupt their learning processes; accidents in the air and on the roads caused by U.S. military aircraft and vehicles; destruction of nature by live-ammunition artillery exercises, which also deny civilian access to highways in the exercise areas; crimes committed by off-duty service personnel against civilians and their properties.

Sounds pretty sweet for the Okinawans.

i have nothing smart to add so don't read this...

thank you for not wasting your time...