News > Politics > Chinese Christians Outnumber Communists

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MONDAY AUGUST 1 2005 2:42 PM

Chinese Christians Outnumber Communists

Wouldn't it be just wrong if China were ruled by a Christian dictatorship? I mean, it's bad that enough China is ruled by any kind of dictatorship. But a Christian dictatorship in a non-Christian country seems like it would be on the "more wrong" end of the wrong spectrum.

But as it turns out there may be more Christians in China than there are members of the Communist Party, which just goes to show how unrepresentative the current system really is. (Logins, as usual, available at BugMeNot.com)

During the Cultural Revolution, Mao Zedong's China turned on itself, torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of people. But the seeds were sown for an unexpected upsurge in Christianity.

In a social revolution that has prompted a heavy-handed response from the Government, religion is spreading through town and countryside and Chinese communities abroad.

Protestantism and Catholicism are among the approved faiths, the others being Buddhism, Taoism and Islam.

Buddhism and Taoism claim most worshippers but the state-sanctioned churches count up to 35 million followers. More significant are the underground or "house" churches, which are believed to have up to 100 million members, many more than are members of the Communist Party.

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Comments

Michael_J_Totten

Iraq

February 2004

AUG 01, 2005 04:51 PM

Thistle said:
He believed that the rich should give everything they have to help the poor and that richness in and of itself was a sin. He espoused charity and love for others above everything else. Those aren't exclusively libertarian principles.

If any of the Chinese religions are libertarian it would have to be Taoism.

Attack_Macaque

Mesquite, TX

September 2004

AUG 01, 2005 11:03 PM

anubis_rising said:

Thistle said:

anubis_rising said:

Idjiit said:
And of course, Jesus probably would have been a communist, which makes the whole thing that much more confusing.

B.S. - Christ never saw the State having a role in developing society. If Christ had any modern philosophy he would be a libertarian ... no force, no coercion, charity, spontaneous order, and free markets.

He seemed to have a severe disdain for taxation, bureaucracy, and authority if memory serves me correctly.

He believed that the rich should give everything they have to help the poor and that richness in and of itself was a sin. He espoused charity and love for others above everything else. Those aren't exclusively libertarian principles.

Matthew 22:20-21 "And [Jesus] saith unto them, 'Whose [is] this image and superscription [on this coin]?' They say unto him, 'Caesar's.' Then saith he unto them, 'Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.'"

[Edited on Aug 02, 2005 1:05AM]

Menelvagor

Columbus, OH

March 2004

AUG 02, 2005 10:59 AM

Anton said:

Michael_J_Totten said:

Idjiit said:
Jesus probably would have been a communist

A social democrat, perhaps. But a communist? With gulags and mass graves and re-education camps and secret police? Please.

That isn't communism, no matter how often you say it.

No, it's not, but only if you assume that everyone in your communist society goes along with the program. One of the wonderful things about the human race is that we like to be free. We like to wear odd clothes and get tattoos and show off our naughty bits, and also to do actually meaningful things like own property, engage in activities and hold beliefs contrary to the societal norm. Start doing that too much in a communist society and pretty soon you are taking and providing resources at a different rate than everyone else, and communism starts to break down. Left unchecked, the system fails. The act of checking this aberrant behavior results in gulags and mass graves, or at least in incarcerations for the heinous sins of being different, not working as hard, or *gasp* owning things.

Except for limited, all-volunteer societies (kibbutzes, etc) communism either fails or resorts to police state tactics to succeed.

The ability of the supposedly freedom-loving Left to adore communism is a constant source of bemusement. It is the ultimate subjugation of the individual to society. Try it and see. Just please do it with someone else's nation.

[Edited on Aug 02, 2005 11:01AM]

waldo

I'm lost

June 2004

AUG 02, 2005 11:31 AM

Menelvagor said: One of the wonderful things about the human race is that we like to be free.

Please show me some evidence for this that's not culturally or politically driven.

[Edited on Aug 02, 2005 by waldo]

TBSheets

I'm lost

December 2004

AUG 02, 2005 12:27 PM

This thread is rocking my whole day.

Do why Jesus chased the moneychanger from temple, next.

We'll proceed alphabetically first with the communists. Or should it be anarchists?

Thanks in advance.

waldo

I'm lost

June 2004

AUG 02, 2005 12:36 PM

TBSheets said:
This thread is rocking my whole day.

Do why Jesus chased the moneychanger from temple, next.

We'll proceed alphabetically first with the communists. Or should it be anarchists?

Thanks in advance.

The anarchists reject your artificial "alphabetic" scheme, and its blatant powermongering.

Wren

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

AUG 02, 2005 12:48 PM

Having a government that doesn't represent the majority of the population isn't really anything unusual.

prolegomenist

I'm lost

May 2005

AUG 02, 2005 12:59 PM

anubis_rising said:
If Christ had any modern philosophy he would be a libertarian ... no force, no coercion, charity, spontaneous order, and free markets.

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. Personally, I won't argue with you. (That fucker can be all yours. Perhaps he could resurrect Nozick, but I hope that he would keep Rand buried in her tomb of pseudo-scholarship.)

But, if I were a defender of christ, I would argue against you. I can't imagine JC's political philosophy would be at odds with a redistributive state. And, surely JC would have problems with a totalized conception of self-ownership and individual liberty.

Menelvagor

Columbus, OH

March 2004

AUG 02, 2005 01:22 PM

waldo said:

Menelvagor said: One of the wonderful things about the human race is that we like to be free.

Please show me some evidence for this that's not culturally or politically driven.

[Edited on Aug 02, 2005 by waldo]

Well, it is pretty hard to separate culture out of the equation completely. If you really think we're not predisposed to preferring to do what we want when we want to do it (for good and for ill), then I guess this whole democracy and liberty thing that has been growing as a *general* trend worldwide for the past 200 years is just a passing fad.

DISCLAIMER: I'll freely admit that both sides in the false-dichotomy of US politics toot the "freedom" horn and then do the exact opposite. The Left is all pro freedom until you read the fine print of regulated this and illegal that, and the Right, even discounting the Religious Right, which is a chapter unto itself, is pretty quick to back such fun, pro-freedom legislation as the Patriot Act.

It is the nature of government to govern. My point is merely that communism as an economic/social system can be divorced from totalitarianism only in very limited cases. It is the totalitarianism that makes it work.

Menelvagor

Columbus, OH

March 2004

AUG 02, 2005 01:22 PM

And not very well, at that.

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

AUG 02, 2005 01:50 PM

anubis_rising said:

Thistle said:

anubis_rising said:

Idjiit said:
And of course, Jesus probably would have been a communist, which makes the whole thing that much more confusing.

No, but decrying the invocation of force by State (taxation taking place from the barrel of a gun) to extort the profits of one's labor and possession in place of legitimate and personal charity IS an exlusively libertarian principle.

Its not the same thing to "help the poor" when it has occured through coercion and was not an independent act of personal compassion., but rather occured as reappropriated pilfer.

And there is that whole thing about "teaching a man to fish" too ....

[Edited on Aug 01, 2005 by anubis_rising]

I don't remember anything in the Bible about Jesus not believing in taxation. He felt that tax collectors were sinners, but that was because the tax collectors in his little world would collect extra taxes and keep them for themselves. Jesus didn't really seem to have a problem with the government per se- in fact he discouraged his followers from revolting against it.

PointBlank

New York, NY

November 2004

AUG 02, 2005 01:56 PM

anubis_rising said:
Christ had any modern philosophy he would be a libertarian ....

I think you have the quote wrong, It's "meek" not "geeks"