From the title, I thought this was about a game based on the 4AD supergroup.

hah, i may have to try permadeath FC2. man, though, i can think of some seriously hard segments. well, okay, just two, really: the fortress fight and the semi-final fight against all of your old pals.

OMG allusions!

from my limited experience with it, i actually like how Prince of Persia handles death. i mean, in terms of gameplay, the point of player character death is to indicate failure on the part of the player. mechanically, all that happens is that you have to go back and repeat a certain amount of content to get another try at whatever challenge killed you last time. the only difference between an arcade game and Prince of Persia is the amount of content you have to repeat per failure, and the method used to begin each iteration of the repeated content. in PoP, the method used is very quick and very elegant; i personally don't miss the necessity of having to mash a button to get out of the game over screen, and then going through whatever menu options stand between me and my next attempt. in PoP, you are automatically and almost immediately put back into the game environment, ready to try again. you can quibble over how far back you have to start over, but in terms of reward/punishment mechanics, the difference between Prince of Persia and starting a new game when you die in Far Cry 2 is one of quantity, not quality.

and, well, what's wrong with having to repeat lesser amounts of content per failure? if the content is enjoyable and varied enough to be fun on each repetition, that's one thing, but otherwise, what's the upside? i mean, challenge is one thing, but repetition isn't necessarily an enjoyable challenge. Ninja Gaiden for the XBox is inarguably a challenging game, despite the fact that when you die, it's usually not too far from your last save point.

it's certainly true that most developers are interested in telling stories rather than, for lack of a better term, telling characters. game developers tend to write movies that you get to interact with--the plots have a beginning, middle, and end, and players are intended to move through them in roughly linear order. and, hey, it's understandable--the milieus most games portray generally lend themselves to that sort of plot-oriented style. it would be interesting to have a game that acts more as a character study than a vehicle for a plot, where the gameplay challenges advance the player's understanding of the character and/or help develop the character as a person--but when you're talking about a game in which the basic point is to run around shooting thousands of bad guys, it's easier to just slap in a generic kidnapped love interest and roll with it.

Well, the few games that do manage to also be character studies are well-nigh classics. Baldur's Gate II and Planescape: Torment come to mind. Something like Breath of Fire 2 were embryonic forms. What you are saying is entirely true: it's much easier to create a plot with a static badass than it is to weave that story around a developing character arc, but it doesn't diminish the fact that doing the latter takes the game to the next level.

yeah, but even there, the game designers don't really make death a part of the story. heck, in PS: Torment, permanent death was almost an easter egg. the reason permanent death works in the roguelikes PixelVixen referred to is, roguelikes randomize every time--you're not repeating old content when you start over, you're experiencing new content.

Hard Rain is supposed to handle character death in an interesting way--if the "main" character dies, the story continues; you just play as a different character, and the "main" character's death becomes part of the narrative. a mod for Far Cry 2 that did something similar would be really cool. if you die, you take over one of the other mercenaries. do a short intro segment, and then you're dumped into the game world, where you have to deal with the actions of your previous character--including the things he left unresolved when he died.

Cassiel - Reference intended. And oh I would play the hell out of a game like that!

Motorfirebox - I have to try that FC 2 mod.

If you haven't seen this already, you might be interested in Cursor*10, which really quickly and elegantly uses death as a mechanic: you keep dying, but each path you take stays on the screen, and helps you move a little farther through the game. As the title screen puts it, you cooperate with yourself:

Cursor*10

haha, as soon as a mod like that comes out, i'll try it too.

Motorfirebox - Ugh, sorry. One of these days I'll learn how to read!

well, you know how to write. it's a start =)