Why did so many of us love the original as much as we did (and do)? Well, here's my reason. Back then, in those days of low-tech, we'd never seen anything like it! It was the first really big special effects spectacular. It blew our minds, because it really was new and amazing. Aside from the solid mythological basis of the story and all, it was just visually overwhelming. It's hard to remember that now... it's hard to see it in perspective, in these days of routine special effects that we take for granted. Y'know... "Serenity... great movie... good dialog... adequate special effects". Now imagine, if you can, that you'd never seen a movie with special effects at all... what would the impact be?

That was Star Wars, back in the day.

Dude, Grevious was injured in the clone wars cartoons, did you not watch that? The conflict between Vader and Obi-won was amazing. He fucking cut him in half. Did you not see that? After he said he was like a brother to him. I get chills everytime I watch that.

Name something in Empire that beats that? You can't.

Also, the action was LAME in all the first 3 star wars because the effects SUCKED. If you can't admit that you are lying to yourself just to be nostagic. That's what I call GEEK DOGMA.

The only thing I will admit is that the acting is better by most of the cast in the originals. However, there is still fucked up dialogue in the originals.


ps - Will I'm in geek awe just talking in the same thread as you. I watch STNG everyday.

My nephew loves the prequels as much as I loved the originals when they came out. And when ROTS came out I saw several little jedis running around on halloween. So obviously the movies meant as much to them as they did to us growing up.

On to the movies though. The prequels are not the originals, and can't really be compared. the story that involves the two are completely different. In the originals you have the small force battling overwhelming odds to conquer the evil empire. In the prequels you have to see how this came about. You have to see the story of how the jedi fall, and how Palpatine rises to power. So of course the story isn't going to have all of the action that you might want. And I have to admit some of the dialogue was pretty bad compared to the first trilogy.

You require excellent special effects to make an action scene for you, I get it. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but that the rest of us aren't the same way doesn't make us pathetic adherents to a broken world view. The lightsaber fights were visuall much more kickass in the new movies, I think that's a given, but as far as my interest in them? The only fights that get my motor running in the new movies are: 1) Obi-Wan/Darth Maul after Maul wtfpwned Qui-Gon--it's emotionally charged and interesting, 2) parts of Obi-Wan/Anakin..that was the duel that would never end, but it had some real value to it. I swear to god it was like they were running a marathon in that one, George wanted the fight scenes to last long and look dazzling but for the most part they were flashy, technically interesting and hollow.

By comparison, every single lightsaber fight in the old trilogy felt like it had a point. There is nothing nostalgic about my appreciation for the various action sequences in the old trilogy, they're put together better and the characterization between them makes them more interesting. Are they as cool on the eyes? Obviously not.

As far as Empire Vs. Sith...man, what a wacko. Obi-Wan carves up a punk ass bitch who has it coming VS Darth Vader lopping the hand off of his son. Who was the good guy, not the bad guy. Oh, and the coolest guy in any Star Wars movie is now art. No, not dark at all, that one.

I'm not a complete hater of the new trilogy, but you're comparing movies with heart to movies without. That they're older and the effects aren't as nice I get, but incredibly it doesn't hit me very hard. But then again I can watch "Flight of the Navigator" without getting to upset either. Well, ok, maybe a bit teary eyed.

I hate to dismiss you, because you seem enthusiastic and all, but this is such a vacuum of logic that it's almost impossible for me to even know how I could possibly appeal to you (Besides, Vestril covered lots of the ground I would have). If way supa rad FX is what it takes to make superior action, then all of my understanding of film, storytelling, and basically all of the things I think that I enjoy, are pretty much out the window. It's kind of hard to know where to go from there in a conversation, ya know?

Characters, man. Characters.

Edited to add: I would rather watch the FX in Metropolis over just about anything in the prequels (which I probably dislike a lot less than most).

Iin fairness, the time prior to Empire control is considered a renaissance era for civilization in the Star Wars universe. Additionally, the original films take place on more primitive, outer rim planets that were more difficult for the Empire to have full control of.

whats that? oh, im sorry, i was watching kurasowa's 'hidden fortress'

[/snark]

I watched the first DVD of Clone Wars. I believe there's more, but I'd moved on to other things by then. Someday. But you really can't rely on people to have seen a cartoon series on cable. You have to convey the important plot points in the movie. (You can expect people to have seen the previous movie(s), to some extent, since it's the same basic audience. But even there there are limits.) And even if he were injured in Clone Wars, that doesn't make his role in the movie any less pathetic.

(I snipped the rest of your comment because, honestly, there's not much point in my replying to it. I saw the same movie you did, I didn't enjoy it nearly as much. Opinions differ.)

i can almost forgive eps I-II, because they gave us the Clone Wars animated series. i'm not going to say anything stupid like "that's what Star Wars should be!" or anything, but i will say that Clone Wars was some quality cartoonin' that made me hunger for ep III.

which, as noted, was somewhat less of a kick in the balls than I-II.

While I agree Grevious shouldve had a more Sinister presence, given the plot twist the cartoon set up, its easy to see why he wasnt meant to hang about dueling Jedi for too long. He has already been seriously wounded prior to the first fight of the movie. Makes me think Lucas thought he was too powerful by the end of Clone Wars and decided to hobble him a bit before the movie set off. A Poor choice if true, in my opinion.

What the hell does one of those things have to do with the other.

True, and you better believe that some of the kids are looking back at the movies we enjoyed and thinking those were seriously lame compared to the new ones.

it was the SW figures and ships that came between my younger brother and I. turned a major dislike into hatred. Christmas morning, opening presents. he opens an X-wing, I got the Bespin Cloud car. it was at that point that I knew my parents were morons, and my little brother must die. luckily I used brains over brawn and convinced him that the cloud car was so much better and he should trade me for the X-wing.

+1

The other thing is that the prequel trilogy was seriously lacking in villains. I know, I know, it's meant to set up the rise of the real big bad of the Star Wars universe, Darth Vader, but they kill off Maul in I, give us the not terribly exciting Dooku for II and a little bit of III, and then introduce a potentially really cool villain in Grievous (who kind of shows up out of the blue if you haven't seen the Clone Wars cartoon, which, again, they should not have assumed people had.) only to waste him astonishingly quickly. Palpatine's maneuverings are very villainous, of course, but behind the scenes.

I really think Vader was what made the first Star Wars movies. There was plenty of other great stuff, of course, but he provided the best possible foil to the efforts of the heroes, and is probably the one thing absolutely everyone (even those who haven't seen the movies) takes away from Star Wars (well...him and lightsabers.). His absence and the absence of any equivalent villainous figure cut the prequels right off at the kneecaps.