he's got the right reasons but i think he's using a very harsh method of getting things done.
nothing wrong with trying to open up some oppurtunities for those kids but you can't take them away from their parents for it.

fucking classic

Encouraging people to learn the language of the nation where they're living is a good thing. Threatening to take away your children if you don't learn English is a very bad thing.

I wonder what would happen if these mothers show significant improvments in their parenting skills, but have not learnt English to the level he wants? Would he still remove children?

I also wonder if he has any evidence to back up his claims?

I don't even see where he's coming from; there's no law saying that you have to learn English, nor is it impossible to live a full life here without knowing it.

I think this is pretty outrageous.

Oh brother.

If the judge is so concerned about civil rights, where is his concern for the mother's civil rights?

It's just intimidation, and it's the furthest imaginable move from encouraging people to assimilate. Think about the message here: "Be just like us, or we'll take away your children."

I'm thinking, if a judge presented me with such an option, I wouldn't want to be anything like that judge.

What people always fail to mention in cases like this is that immigrants want to learn English. They see the economic benefits of speaking English every day, often in a very visceral way (say, hunger). While they may not have the means or the opportunity to learn English readily at hand, that doesn't mean they need the government shoving it down their throats.

"moral obligation"? fuck off. is it just me or do some people have a very strange idea of what morality is, and what it demands?

as for the judge, i cannot believe this particular ruling does not contradict civil rights legislation. this is absurd, and as has already been said, there must be other ways of getting it done.

un-fucking-beliavable...

That's fucking horrible. I'm all for leaning on immigrants to learn basic English, but that's way over the line.

I do believe we have no official language in this country.

See...I'm not even in favor of leaning on them to learn English. If you choose to enter this country legally, and you do your fair share...I say speak fucking gibberish if it makes you happy. I think our government has no right to impose a language on someone.

Now...let me clarify my point. I would like immigrants to learn, at the very least, basic conversational English. It can be very frustrating trying to conduct business or perform basic functions of everyday life when speaking to someone who doesn't speak English.

That being said....I don't think it's ok to force someone , by threat of taking away their children, to learn English over what basically amounts to an inconvenience.

However...my one caveat in regards to this issue is that I am thoroughly opposed to bending government agencies over backwards for the non-English speaking population. As an example...The New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission currently offers the driver's license exam in something like sixteen languages. That would be fine...if traffic signals & signs were also translated into sixteen languages. Currently, I'm only aware of them being in English.

It is your right to not learn English...but it is your fault if you can't get by without it.

The kind of English you need to read street signs and the kind you need to take an exam are distinct. I would feel considerably safer knowing that other drivers had passed a driving exam in a language they actually understand than one they only learned enough to pass a test.

As for laying blame, take the example of the Spanish community, which is so large in the US that it's perfectly possible to get anything you want done without using a word of English: go to the doctor, get your car repaired, do your banking, etc etc.

Despite that, I can attest to the fact that Spanish-speaking immigrants want to learn Englsih. I used to teach ESL, and people who worked all day long in shit jobs would haul themselves into night classes and try to learn English five nights a week.

It would be interesting to know what opportunities to learn English are available in Lebanon, Tennessee -- especially considering that the judge has put these people under the most terrifying deadline imaginable.

If we're going to hold immigrants at fault for not having an acceptable degree of English fluency, then we should also hold the government at fault for not providing the necessary means to acquire that fluency.

I agree with you, mister.

I agree that this is a stupid thing to do, but I have to ask: 18 years old and has *multiple* children? The judge isn't the only one lacking foresight here.

Also, if a court is going to force a foreigner to learn English, he ought to be able to force those awful American tourists you always hear about, that go to France without knowing a lick of French, but expect hotel/restaurant staff there to understand them when they speak French-accented English in loud, booming voices, to learn an appropriate foreign language before going to a country that speaks it.

[Edited on Feb 18, 2005 8:50AM]

She should just move to Miami, engilsh is optional there