Once again, Facebook games like Mafia Wars are LITERALLY just clicking a button and watching a number go up, along with spamming your friends to play so you can access additional buttons. If you completely abstract the shit out of an MMORPG and ignore all of the things that go into it just to make a trollish point, then sure, they're identical. Yeah. Uh-huh.

never said identical, said similar.

Button or icon clicking is a mainstay of the MMORPG game model. you dont actively participate in combat, there is no skill in aiming your attack. you simply target the individual you want and hit a button, then hit more buttons until a set number is reached and you defeat your target. and last I checked there was plenty of LFG spamming going on in the game for people not in guilds who wanted to experience certian content such as raids. Not to mention the various auction house models that keep players connected to, or worried about, the game even when they not playing it.

The way you defined zynga style games can easily be applied to MMORPGs in that they are really similar expereinces.

to use a quote posted earlier by Bob

Much of what was said above can easily be applied to MMORPGs and there is plenty of evidence to back that up in the fact that MMORPGs like WoW helped define gaming addiction. I dont think it is a stretch to say that MMORPGs, like zynga style games, are not designed based on a positive model but instead designed to exploit the player to keep them playing and to keep them paying the monthly fee.

Edit - also there is one other thing worth mentioning. Games like farmville, mafia wars and modern MMORPGs all have their roots in the MUDs people used to play. In fact it could be said that Mafia wars, Imob, farmville and the like are closer to the MUD model than MMORPGs are currently but they definetely spring from the same source.

To elaborate: imagine a fantasy Mafia Wars-style game (there are some, but I never got into them so this is a fictitious example). A 'quest' opens at level 10 to go kill some orcs besieging a castle. The quest checks to make sure you have a [Stick], 3 [Ball of Twine], a [Spell: Meat to Cheese] and 4 friends who play the same game. You do, so you click the "go on quest" button. "Congratulations, you've slain the orcs menacing this castle. You gain +400 experience. You gain [Pitchfork]." There you have it, a "quest" in a Mafia Wars-esque game. You will never fail, you will never actually have to do anything to accomplish the "quest", and you will always get exactly the same reward. The entire interactivity is pressing the button.

Let's say a quest in WoW opens up at level 10 to go kill some orcs besieging a castle. You click "Accept Quest"...and then you go find the castle. The orcs are in groups of three, so you have to isolate each group and pound down each orc in turn with an array of battle maneuvers and/or spells. Once you've killed four groups of them, a "boss" orc comes out and fights you with fancy special attacks. Once you've slain -him-, then you can finally go back to the questgiver and select your reward. Then the questgiver lets you know that actually the "boss" was just a minion. The real threat is gathering in a dark forest lair, and you'll need to go locate the scouts they've sent who haven't yet returned.

One of these wholly imaginary scenarios has gameplay. The other does not. Note that I am not claiming that the gameplay in question is necessarily -good- gameplay. But it's there.

I think your confusing story with gameplay. in your example you have a story to go along with the button clicking, the gameplay can be very similar in that for that quest you might need to have a certain reputation with said questgiver, once you do you can get the quest, the quest might also be in an instance where you need to be a certain level.

Im not saying their are identical but the similarities are there, MMORPGs are simply more technologically advanced and sophisticated graphics and story wise

Uh. No. In one of those scenarios, you, the player, actually do stuff. That's gameplay. In the other, you click a button, and maybe you imagine stuff was done. That isn't.

if you define "do stuff" as travelling between quest giver and quest source and then click buttons and watch the combat automatically happen until all enemies are defeated, then yes, I guess that is a difference.

Though it occurs to me that EVE online might be even closer to zynga style games than WoW is.

Oh this shit is funny!

Social Network Games Blow...

I have never really played one. But did play MUDs back in the day. I was a golden god in the MUDs with my sweet sword and kick ass armor.

Like I say, if you're so utterly reductive that you see no difference between interactive gameplay and button pressing, then sure, every game is a Zynga game.

I was playing Street Fighter the other day. It was pretty boring. You just travel across a 2d screen to where your enemy is, hit buttons, and your character fights automatically. And when your enemy is defeated you go to the next stage without you having to do anything at all.

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The shark

hmmm, yes because a fighting game requires the same level of interactivety of an MMORPG.

I bet it was real hard in between those fights having to run all the way back to the menu screen, select which guy you wanted, and then run all the way back to where the fight was going to take place and then make sure your fighter had the right outfit on so you could defeat your opponent and after all that once it was all over and you were done playing you still were worried about the fact that some other fighter might buy the outfit you wanted before you could turn the game back on and buy it yourself.

Plus, I bet mindlessly farming all those materials for fightin poitions is a pian in the ass.

not to mention the stress of actually being able to see your character performing the attack option you selected. I mean... wow the thought of hitting the punch button and seeing your guy punch instead of automatically swinging his fist after hitting the attack button one time must just tire the mind right out. But I bet the real pain is waiting for the kick button to refresh,

all I can say, is that you and I have a very different definition of the word "interactive". When someone has to or would want to create a Bot just to play a game of ME2, Ghost Recon, halo, battlefield, street fighter, tekken, tetris, super mario, legend of zelda, sonic, command and conquer, age of empires etc... then maybe I can see "interactive" as being the way you define it.

Your lack of familiarity with what words mean is not my problem. You are perfectly free to not like the gameplay MMOs contain - plenty of people don't. It nonetheless exists.

Yes, but it's all just button pressing! That makes it the same as Mafia Wars, really.

Pro tip: You can't make an argument based on comparison and not accept other comparisons of the same type. Street Fighter is different from WoW for much the same reasons that WoW differs from Farmville. You can either accept that those differences are meaningful, or you can reject it. You don't get to pick and choose between variations on a type.