There's a reason why people also refer to the practice of religion as faith.

How do so many people not understand this?

And to everyone else, please don't respond with some silly, pretentious tirade about how religion and all the people who practice religion don't "understand it" either. I'm not about to involve myself any more with this thread, I just had to add this.

Thank You

Ummmm, non-theistic IS THE EXACT DEFINITION of atheism.

Theism = belief in the existence of one or more divinities or deities.
a = prefix meaning 'not'

combine the two, viola! not-theist.

Atheism is also a reverse engineered term that i don't particularlly care for, but, that's another discussion.

I'd imagine American atheists would seem a lot less grouchy if we weren't living in a country where our "president" has deemed us non-Americans. Considering how a lot of other non-Americans are being treated right now, maybe atheists have one or two reasons to feel a little defensive. I've always found it strange that atheism seems to be a totally acceptable facet of society in European countries with state religions. It is almost ironic that in the society where we purportedly have full freedom to reject systems that aren't analogous to the real physical world around us, atheism must apparently continuously defend itself.

...it also really doesn't help when people keep telling us that what we're doing is "religion," either. It always feels like the "funny" meat-eaters smacking their lips and chewing open-mouthed to annoy their vegetarian friends. I find both practices kind of obnoxious.

Semantically, yes. But the terms are very different.

I am a non-theist. Religion, and god, are not a part of my life. I do not think about them unless someone else brings it up.

I am not an athiest. Atheists have a very strong opinion on god, and it's an opinion that requires a leap of faith. There is no hard evidence in the world that says there is no god. Every single athiest looks at the world and makes a conscious decision to choose to believe that there is no god. That is an act of faith, no different from looking at the exact same world and choosing to believe that there is a god.

I think Brad's point was, if you're going to make a leap of faith and choose to believe something without any evidence to back it up, it's more fulfilling to choose to believe in something comforting than to choose to believe in the absense of something comforting. So to an unbiased spectator, atheism doesn't seem very appealing.

Meanwhile, me and the other non-theists or agnostics or whatever you want to call us are enjoying life for what it is, not wasting precious time and thoughts on things that may or may not be true, and not getting into silly theological arguments at every dinner party we go to.

So would you say I have a "strong opinion" on ghosts because I don't believe in them? What about leprechauns? Elves?

Religion and god(s) are not a part of my life, and I likewise do not think about them unless someone else brings them up. These things do not make me not an atheist, however. I am once again wondering how so many people see a rational conclusion and decide that something "faith" based is happening.

The absence of evidence that there is no god is immaterial, philosophically speaking. Any honest atheist who has given the subject enough thought will tell you that the non-existence of god is no more provable than the existence of same. What is different is the falsifiability, and that puts an onus of proof on those that believe in god against all logical and rational proof contrary to their beliefs.

You say that I have taken a leap of faith. On what basis do you make that claim? What are your reasons for leaving that door open? I posit that the only difference between you and me is there's a sort of "maybe" in your head that is absent in mine. If you intended to point out that strident, so-called "militant" atheists are engaging in something that could arguably be called a "religion," then that's one thing. But I'm very unsure about you tarring all of us with one brush simply because we hew to the blunt side of Occam's Razor instead of choosing to stand on its edge.

Atheism is not the choice to believe in an absence of something comforting. I am comforted by the fact that I can make a difference in the world under my own power. I am comforted by the fact that I can love and be loved; I can enjoy sensations and experience because I am alive. While I am alive, I will be trying to enjoy myself as much as possible for as long as possible, within self-imposed constraints as opposed to constraints placed upon me because of religious moral code.

Whether or not one enjoys life is not really based on their belief or non-belief in supernatural entities. So as for your last paragraph above, that is, in fact, exactly what I do. If you wanted to call out argumentative people, you should have done that. Certainly, a lot of the atheists in this thread have the volume set pretty high. But you chose to once again tar all atheists with the same brush and brand what they're doing "faith."

pretty much exactly what i was going to say.

personally, i'm agnostic. i've come to terms with the slim odds of ever finding any concrete understanding of why we're here, and honestly, i can see where Brad is coming from when he says that the majority of the world doesn't want to go to sleep at night not "knowing".

it's a big, scary universe out there, and the only thing i can conceive of that's less appealing than settling for an ancient ghost story is standing up and asserting that the entirety of existence is made up only of what we can see and prove.

in that respect, i agree with Brad that the common brand of "nuh-uh" atheism is just as silly as theism (and less appealing).

Wait... you and I agree on something? ALERT THE MEDIA!

I have to respectfully disagree with some of what you said. I'm trying to go about this without sounding like i'm trying to start a flame war... i'm not.

But i don't think it take a leap of faith to not believe in something. Look over your shoulder. Do you see the unicorn in the room? Would you believe me if i told you that there are invisible unicorns following all of us around? Are you taking a leap of faith by not believing me? I really don't think so.

I was born. I walk around the earth. There's no god present, nor any reason to create one in my head or believe in one, nor am i experiencing evidence of one. Someone comes up to me and says "there is a god"... and then i'm taking the leap of faith (backwards) because i failed to take the extra step in acknowledging something that seems completely fabricated with no evidence?

I also disagree that it's more fulfilling believing in something comforting for the sake of comfort, than it would be to, i dunno, understand the world around me as best i can through scientific means which actually looks at what is through evidence, etc. This is not to start a religion vs. science debate. But to make the general statement that people find god/religion more comforting than the alternatives is flawed. Maybe it's true for many people, but not everyone.

And yes, the definitions are semantics. But it's still true. Technically an agnostic is an atheist. Not an anti-believer, but an atheist, as far as definitions go.

I hope i don't come off as condescending. I don't mean to, although i feel like i come off that way online (it's why i usually avoid the boards)

hehe, yeah, it's astonishing how, as an outsider from religion, i see how absolutely dangerous and militant the religious in America are. They scare me because they're not very different from the religious fundamentalists of non-xtian faiths, in other countries... specifically the muslim extremists that 'we' are fighting against in other countries. And i would think it was just a bunch of rogue extremists, live and let live to all the other religious people who just go to church and are nice to each other, except for the fact that there are millions of them, and they have a lot of money that comes from both their extremist selves, AND from regular churchgoers who think their alms are going to good causes without a second thought, AND they have tons of political power, and the backing of one of the most bloodthirsty militaries in the world.

Wow! I am impressed by everyone who has posted since last night. Very nice, an actual conversation without condescension or mean spirited finger pointing. (applause)

Personally, I could cop out on the whole "there is a god/there isn't a god argument." But, here we go. I don't believe in god. There, I said it. After 37 yrs on this earth, understanding how religions are formed, and why humans began worshipping god(s) in the first place, I can't honestly, logically, emotionally, or spiritually agree with the idea that there is this big guy in the sky watching over us. Some would say it is a sad realization. I disagree. Its opened up my perspective to much broader possibilities. Maybe there is a god(s), but so far nothing that man has done, or shown has proven that there is. (heck, it could be aliens, or us manipulating the timeline for all I know.) I freely admit there is more in this universe than our measly senses can detect.

I understand it takes a leap of faith to make that decision, some would say an abandonment of logic, or person. But, for every religion that has ever been conceived, or implemented, don't they ask for submission, or a choice of submission? Submit to gods will? And in doing so, doesn't that mean submitting to teachings that both contradict themselves and the very notion of free will? You are more than willing to disagree with me. Thats fine. I will defend to the death your right to worship as you see fit. That is your choice. Or is it? (no irony or sarcasm implied)

Now, does this make me a non-theist, or an atheist? (shrug)

The whole "atheist" versus "non-theist" thing irritates the shit out of me. Well, the semantics of it, anyway. It's like one Christian denomination claiming that other denominations are not, infact, Christian at all. It's retarded. If you want to differentiate between militant atheists and your typical atheist, go for it, but a "non-theist" is still by definition an atheist. If you can't deal with that, then I'm sorry you're ashamed of the category you fall into, or have difficulty admitting to yourself that you lack belief.

the world apologizes for being more complex than you'd like it to be.