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  • WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 26 2007 4:00 PM

Kiddie Porn or Boundary Pushing Art?



Is any and every photo of a naked kid pornography? How do you determine what's boundary-pushing art, and what's just plain sleaze? A photo from Nan Goldin's "Thanksgiving" installation, currently at the BALTIC Centre for Contemporary Art, has been seized by authorities on accusations of indecency. From their site:

BALTIC presents work by American artist Nan Goldin from The Sir Elton John Photography Collection. Thanksgiving is a micro-retrospective installation of photographs documenting the artist’s life from 1973 to 1999. The installation immerses us in Goldin’s world, recording friends and lovers and her own intimate history

Now, police in northeast England are "trying to assess" whether the photo--which has been exhibited many times previously, at major art shows--qualifies as pornography and if "an offense had been committed." The photograph, called "Klara and Edda Belly Dancing," was published in the Phaidon monograph of Goldin's works titled The Devil's Playground, and has been exhibited in Houston, London, Madrid, New York, Portugal, Warsaw and Zurich without issue.

[Elton] John purchased the "Thanksgiving" installation in 1999, his statement said.

Goldin's frank and often sexually explicit work has drawn critical acclaim, as well as police attention.


So, is it pornography or not? You be the judge:


Photo Location *photo blurred by host site.

 

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Comments
Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

OCT 04, 2007 06:40 PM

Kanner said:

Was the image intended to stir up a fuss?
Probably.

Did it succeed?
Certainly.

Is it therefore art, on one level or another?
Indubitably.



*sigh*

You have a *really* low opinion of art and artists if you think that merely causing a fuss is somehow art.

Put it another way - any artist who merely aspires to get 'a reaction' from their audience is setting their sights FAR too low.

A great singer can make me cry. A great comedian can make me laugh. A great painter can make me feel wonder, or horror, or virtually any mix of thoughts depending on what they dream up. A great photographer is the same, but with a sharper, more realistic edge - because their subject is fresh, precise and in the moment, and not recreated through memory and approximation. Still photos of war, particularly - there is little else that can make you feel such horror or anguish or burning anger for the situation.

A badly taken shot of a naked kid dancing with another kid... doesn't do anything above a vague level of discomfort. Maybe it's great if you know the kids. Maybe it works if it's an amazing photo, taken perfectly with a once-ever situation. But this is not such a photo.

If you wanna argue that 'anything is art and who are you to judge', fine. I just take that as meaning you're a crappy artist, and someone who pays more attention to the signature on the painting than the actual painting itself. Because it's REALLY EASY to judge, just so long as you haven't gone through the *amazing* modern art brainwashing process. You really need to think back to the time before someone explained to you that 'It's vague and talentless, therefore it's not art, but because it's intentionally vague and talentless, it's art.' NO. It's just vague and talentless, regards of whether that's intentional or not.

Nor is it really valid to turn a single crappy portrait of a naked kid into a vast arguement about nudity and naturalism and 'how we perceive the human form'. People in our society wear clothes. People in other societies wear clothes. People have worn clothes for thousands of years, all over the world. Deal with it. =)



Well said, all around.

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

OCT 04, 2007 06:49 PM

rebelwithstyle said:
Porn is designed to arouse people. I can safely say the photographer didnt take this picture to arouse people. The question we should be asking is whether or not the people that think this is porn are pedophiles. Do they look at it and think "Wow, thats a picture of some naked kiddies and it turns me on. It must be child porno?" That is what is disturbing about this story. Kids have been running around naked since there were kids to run around naked. Takeing a picture of it dosent turn it into porn. In my oppinion everyone that looks at this and thinks "it's porn!" needs some serious help.



You know, I wouldn't think that this is something anyone should need to have explained to him/her (and you shouldn't feel too personally attacked here; you're hardly the only one stating the view that you're stating), but apparently it is.

There is a massive and fundamental difference between "I'm uncomfortable with graphic pictures of naked children displayed alongside other sexually explicit pictures, especially in a world in which there are some really ill people and some really horrible things that happen to young children because of that--and either way I don't think this is artistic; I think it's just creepy" and "that young girl's genitals are getting me hot, so this must be porn."

I mean, seriously, are you really failing to see that difference? Are you really positing that the only possible reason that the public display of a photo like that could make someone uncomfortable is because that person has a secret, shameful desire to have sexual contact with children? If you're really making that stunningly baseless leap of logic, I'd argue that you're the one who needs help, because the connections you're making are not in the slightest logical or rational or grounded in reality.

GhostofTomJoad

GhostofTomJoad

Montreal, QC
October 2007

OCT 04, 2007 06:49 PM

They're just going through Freud's stages.

Clidna

Clidna

Canada
January 2005

OCT 06, 2007 01:54 AM

Meh. Changed my mind with this post. +1 to what Necia said because she said it more eloquently. wink

Metaverse

Metaverse

USA
March 2005

OCT 06, 2007 02:25 PM

Necia said:

rebelwithstyle said:
Porn is designed to arouse people. I can safely say the photographer didnt take this picture to arouse people. The question we should be asking is whether or not the people that think this is porn are pedophiles. Do they look at it and think "Wow, thats a picture of some naked kiddies and it turns me on. It must be child porno?" That is what is disturbing about this story. Kids have been running around naked since there were kids to run around naked. Takeing a picture of it dosent turn it into porn. In my oppinion everyone that looks at this and thinks "it's porn!" needs some serious help.



You know, I wouldn't think that this is something anyone should need to have explained to him/her (and you shouldn't feel too personally attacked here; you're hardly the only one stating the view that you're stating), but apparently it is.

There is a massive and fundamental difference between "I'm uncomfortable with graphic pictures of naked children displayed alongside other sexually explicit pictures, especially in a world in which there are some really ill people and some really horrible things that happen to young children because of that--and either way I don't think this is artistic; I think it's just creepy" and "that young girl's genitals are getting me hot, so this must be porn."

I mean, seriously, are you really failing to see that difference? Are you really positing that the only possible reason that the public display of a photo like that could make someone uncomfortable is because that person has a secret, shameful desire to have sexual contact with children? If you're really making that stunningly baseless leap of logic, I'd argue that you're the one who needs help, because the connections you're making are not in the slightest logical or rational or grounded in reality.



Very well said.

As for the photo in question. It just isn't artistic to me. It's like a picture anyone could take of their kids on any normal day. Maybe in the context amongst many other pictures it would work better, but standing alone, it's just not art to me.

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