By now you're probably familiar with the story of the University of Florida student who was tasered during a forum with Sen. John Kerry. In the course of asking Kerry about his membership in Skull and Bones, he was forcibly removed from the microphone and "escorted" to the back of the auditorium, loudly protesting all the while.
As has been noted, neither Kerry nor the majority of the other students participating in the forum did anything to stop this from happening. However, about 2,000 miles away at Colorado State University, students sympathetic to the recently tasered Andrew Meyer published a response, which has left the paper approximately $30,000 poorer in advertising dollars so far.
Colorado State University's student newspaper has lost $30,000 in advertising and had to cut pay and other budgets by 10 percent because of fallout from the use of a four-letter word in an editorial about President Bush, the Coloradoan reported Saturday.
In large type, the editorial included the words "Taser this ... Fuck Bush." The editorial said it had the support of the Collegian's editorial board.
"As local and national media will inevitably jump on this controversy, I strongly urge the university community to try and understand that the intentions of the students on staff, including me, were not to cause harm, but rather to reinforce the importance of free speech at our great institution," Editor-in-Chief J. David McSwane said in a posting on the paper's Web site Friday.
I can understand being up at arms about the Bush administrations "approach" to civil liberties, and I can totally jive with wanting to "make a statement people couldn't ignore," as the paper's Editor-in-Chief says he wanted to do, but "Fuck Bush"? That's not original, intelligent, or creative. How about "Fuck Kerry." That would be more to the point, after all, and your advertisers probably wouldn't have as big a problem with it.
The Collegian, a free publication funded entirely by advertising and published Monday through Friday printed comments, including negative ones on its Web site.
"Like many other comments here, I'm quite ashamed to see the official voice of my alma mater's paper choosing to express itself like this," wrote one commenter under the name Phil Mills. "Regardless of the Editors' opinion of our President, I would have hoped that they could have come up with something more eloquent and reasoned to express that opinion than this... this... bumper sticker."
The fact that Kerry continued to numbly "answer" Meyer's question even as the kid was being tasered and screaming "Help" and "Owwww" in agony is absurd and pathetic. Publishing an editorial response in a college paper that reads "Taser this ... Fuck Bush," is a close second.
Perhaps worst of all are the other students and (presumably) faculty who didn't respond. What would you do in that situation? Stand idly by, or speak up and act out?
Kerry is a piece of shit like the other politicians who pretend to be "for the people" . This is an example of what is to come , when you openly question any policies involving government on any level . How long the public will eat the shit spewed forth out of their mouths is the only question to answer , ie: How long until we are a police state ?
spinysquid said:
easy question. he should have appealed to the officers to let the young man up and let him leave unobstructed. 'the young man poses no threat to me officers. if he is disrupting the forum to an extent that you must remove him, please do so in a quick and orderly fashion. no tasering will be necessary.'
Oh grow the fuck up. It's not like Kerry had time to sit and type out the above bullshit monologue like you did just in case something like this might happen. It happened out of the blue, he asked the cops to let him answer the question, but once it became clear that the police were going to remove him he had absolutely zero authority over the situation. Again, he's just a politician. He's not Emperor Palpatine. He can't snap his fingers and have the police just stop what they're doing.
abracadabra said:
Kerry is a piece of shit like the other politicians who pretend to be "for the people" . This is an example of what is to come , when you openly question any policies involving government on any level . How long the public will eat the shit spewed forth out of their mouths is the only question to answer , ie: How long until we are a police state ?
I could not roll my eyes harder at this comment than I am right now without causing irreversible damage to my retinas..
abracadabra said:
Kerry is a piece of shit like the other politicians who pretend to be "for the people" . This is an example of what is to come , when you openly question any policies involving government on any level . How long the public will eat the shit spewed forth out of their mouths is the only question to answer , ie: How long until we are a police state ?
I could not roll my eyes harder at this comment than I am right now without causing irreversible damage to my retinas..
Srsly.
Knee-jerk anarchism is as ridiculous as knee-jerk fascism.
I had no idea that Skull & Bones was a "policy involving government." I thought it was a support group for overprivileged white kids. Is it a secret branch of Americorps?
"what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
That kid is a pompous dipshit who thought he could say and do whatever he wanted and wanted to use his 20 seconds on the microphone to get some recognition by thinking he could put Kerry on the spot. Not to mention, the video doesn't show what the kid said or asked prior to the Secret Society question. For all we know he could have badgered Kerry about another question and was warned.
And I can honestly say that if I were in that crowd I would be laughing at that kid for a few reasons, one of which being did anyone else notice how quickly he went from being Mr. Cool Guy on Campus to "heelllppp meeeeeee, they're arresting me!!! somebody heeelllpppp meee pllllleeeaaaasseeee!!!!! why won't anyone help meeeee????" If you can't do the time don't do the crime...asshole.
I understand and agree with that... but typically, not following the rules doesn't get somebody tasered, it gets them expelled. Speaking of which, did he? I haven't read anything that has answered that.
No, not following the rules doesn't typically get you tasered. RESISTING ARREST DOES. Nothing yet on expulsion, I think it's too early in this whole debacle to tell. I think he raised enough of a stink that it'll be awhile before the University decides.
Am I the only one that heard, at 1m 21s into the video (1:02 if it's counting down) the kid say, "Just let me up and I'll walk out,"? Yet over 30 seconds later, they taser him anyway. Was the kid being a dick? Yes. Could it have been handled differently? Yes.
By the time he said he'd leave, it was too late. They had already committed to arresting him. They committed to arresting him when he struggled free and refused to leave. It was just another move on his part to grab more attention, and make it look like an unjust and wrongful arrest. Moreover, the fact remains that had he not continued to struggle, he would never have gotten zapped. You can say anything you like while you're struggling with an officer, but you'd still be resisting arrest.
And yes, it could have been handled differently, like, oh, say, PEPPER MACE in the eyes, a PR-24 PROSECUTOR BATON to the kidneys and skull... Or six officers stomping his ass into the ground. They chose the one least likely to do any lasting damage. The taser hurts like hell. It can even disorient you or knock you out. But in the end, you take less lasting damage from one than you will from even pepper mace. See with a taser (OK, LET'S CALL IT WHAT IT IS. IT'S A FUCKING STUN GUN. A TASER FIRES DARTS, THIS ONE DID NOT. IT'S A SHORT-HANDLED CATTLE PROD. ), the pain stops once it's done being used. Pepper mace, batons, and knuckles, not so much. Oh, and if they used any of the other three methods, THEN the protesters would have a reason to bitch.
I don't think it was police brutality, but I do think it could have been handled far better than it was, and I definitely think it could have been handled without tasering the kid. Also, I didn't glance at the surface - after hearing about the video, I did my own research.
Bottom line: He brought all this shit on himself.
Maybe he did... but due to the actions of the officers, they brought the inquiries and publicity on themselves, too.
Oh, Andrew Meyer certainly saw to that. He caused enough drama to ensure that the officers will be investigated and probed with a fine-toothed comb, and most likely fired as scapegoats regardless of whether or not they are found to have committed any wrongdoing.
71
_kungfoo_
Los Angeles, CA
April 2005
SEP 23, 2007 09:00 AM
scotts0 said:
That kid is a pompous dipshit who thought he could say and do whatever he wanted and wanted to use his 20 seconds on the microphone to get some recognition by thinking he could put Kerry on the spot. Not to mention, the video doesn't show what the kid said or asked prior to the Secret Society question. For all we know he could have badgered Kerry about another question and was warned.
That's simply your assumption. There are plenty of videos out there that show the entire incident. Gut feelings are not facts.
And I can honestly say that if I were in that crowd I would be laughing at that kid for a few reasons, one of which being did anyone else notice how quickly he went from being Mr. Cool Guy on Campus to "heelllppp meeeeeee, they're arresting me!!! somebody heeelllpppp meee pllllleeeaaaasseeee!!!!! why won't anyone help meeeee????" If you can't do the time don't do the crime...asshole.
And what crime was that, that he supposed committed?
KUNGFOO said:
And what crime was that, that he supposed committed?
He was asked to leave a privately held event by security officers (who were instructed to do so by the people holding the event). He refused, and then while being escorted from the building (he was not under arrest), he resisted and broke free of the officers repeatedly. Once the officers determined that he was out of control, they subdued him... while he continued to resist.
The kid's a god damned attention whore by all accounts, and when he was off camera he even calmed down, telling the police they had done nothing wrong. Once he was back on camera he started resisting and crying out again.
Here. Watch this video, and pay special attention towards the end. Once he's on the ground and he realizes people aren't paying much attention anymore (as Kerry begins to speak to the audience), he starts crying out again and resisting some more.
And here's what another eye-witness says.
However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student's question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should "spend time to answer everyone's questions!" Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would "stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered." The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying "what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!" The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the
police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student's question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).
Kid was an idiot and was doing this specifically to get attention and cause trouble. Fortunately for him there are people who blindly distrust everything connected to the government enough to think something wrong happened, and that he was a victim.
KUNGFOO said:
And what crime was that, that he supposed committed?
He was asked to leave a privately held event by security officers (who were instructed to do so by the people holding the event). He refused, and then while being escorted from the building (he was not under arrest), he resisted and broke free of the officers repeatedly. Once the officers determined that he was out of control, they subdued him... while he continued to resist.
A privately held event isn't a accurate description at all. A US Senator made a public appearance at a major state University where this kid was a student. You're making it sound like a wedding. I not saying this kid didn't overreact to the situation, but the police did their fair share in escalating it. So I ask again... what crime did he supposed commit, that justified how the campus police reacted? I don't buy what you've written above as a justification for using a tazer.
The kid's a god damned attention whore by all accounts, and when he was off camera he even calmed down, telling the police they had done nothing wrong. Once he was back on camera he started resisting and crying out again.
Here. Watch this video, and pay special attention towards the end. Once he's on the ground and he realizes people aren't paying much attention anymore (as Kerry begins to speak to the audience), he starts crying out again and resisting some more.
And here's what another eye-witness says.
However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student's question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should "spend time to answer everyone's questions!" Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would "stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered." The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying "what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!" The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the
police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student's question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).
Kid was an idiot and was doing this specifically to get attention and cause trouble. Fortunately for him there are people who blindly distrust everything connected to the government enough to think something wrong happened, and that he was a victim.
He's just making a name for himself to launch a career in the media.
I haven't argued that the kid wasn't an obnoxious jackass. From the looks of his website, he'd seem like the type of person we'd mock here for spouting off crazy conspiracy theories. I could really give a fuck about the kid.
My point is: shouldn't the police be the more responsible when reacting to situations like this? How is the use of a tazer in this situation justifiable?
scotts0 said:
That kid is a pompous dipshit who thought he could say and do whatever he wanted and wanted to use his 20 seconds on the microphone to get some recognition by thinking he could put Kerry on the spot. Not to mention, the video doesn't show what the kid said or asked prior to the Secret Society question. For all we know he could have badgered Kerry about another question and was warned.
That's simply your assumption. There are plenty of videos out there that show the entire incident. Gut feelings are not facts.
And I can honestly say that if I were in that crowd I would be laughing at that kid for a few reasons, one of which being did anyone else notice how quickly he went from being Mr. Cool Guy on Campus to "heelllppp meeeeeee, they're arresting me!!! somebody heeelllpppp meee pllllleeeaaaasseeee!!!!! why won't anyone help meeeee????" If you can't do the time don't do the crime...asshole.
And what crime was that, that he supposed committed?
My point is: shouldn't the police be the more responsible when reacting to situations like this? How is the use of a tazer in this situation justifiable?
You have clearly not been paying attention. Resisting arrest. 'Nuff said. Yo do that, things get all sparkly, and not in a way you'll enjoy. Or would you prefer a club? Or mace? Or a boot in the face? All of these things were also justifiable possibilities. Thank the powers that be for the little punk's sake that they chose the least injurious method.
KUNGFOO said:
A privately held event isn't a accurate description at all. A US Senator made a public appearance at a major state University where this kid was a student. You're making it sound like a wedding. I not saying this kid didn't overreact to the situation, but the police did their fair share in escalating it. So I ask again... what crime did he supposed commit, that justified how the campus police reacted? I don't buy what you've written above as a justification for using a tazer.
It was an event held by a private group, and they invited Kerry. It's up to them who they want in there. That leads to the crime, he was asked to leave and refused, so that's trespassing. Officers attempted to escort him out, which would have been the end of it, but instead he broke free repeatedly and became a danger to himself and others. Or at least I gather that's the reasoning.
I haven't argued that the kid wasn't an obnoxious jackass. From the looks of his website, he'd seem like the type of person we'd mock here for spouting off crazy conspiracy theories. I could really give a fuck about the kid.
My point is: shouldn't the police be the more responsible when reacting to situations like this? How is the use of a tazer in this situation justifiable?
It's hard to say, as I'm not an officer, but using a tazer on a college age male who is writhing on the ground resisting efforts to be cuffed doesn't seem like too much. Tazers hurt, but only for a few seconds, and he could do serious harm to himself resisting the handcuffs. Tazers really aren't all that bad, they're not subtle and therefore really set bystanders of, but they're really not dangerous to use, and work wonders against people resisting custody.
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Comments
abracadabra
Seattle, WA
April 2004
SEP 23, 2007 03:37 AM
Dark_Templar
Auburn, CA
June 2004
SEP 23, 2007 03:59 AM
Subrosa
San Francisco, CA
July 2004
SEP 23, 2007 06:09 AM
defaultx
I'm lost
February 2006
SEP 23, 2007 06:12 AM
Subrosa
San Francisco, CA
July 2004
SEP 23, 2007 06:16 AM
StarBelliedBoy
Philadelphia, PA
December 2003
SEP 23, 2007 06:29 AM
cyberomega
United Kingdom
November 2005
SEP 23, 2007 07:48 AM
HarManic
Urbana, IL
March 2005
SEP 23, 2007 07:50 AM
scotts0
White Plains, NY
November 2006
SEP 23, 2007 08:02 AM
masterfrederick
Beaverton, OR
November 2006
SEP 23, 2007 08:02 AM
_kungfoo_
Los Angeles, CA
April 2005
SEP 23, 2007 09:00 AM
Heathen_Dave
Birmingham, AL
July 2005
SEP 23, 2007 09:16 AM
_kungfoo_
Los Angeles, CA
April 2005
SEP 23, 2007 09:57 AM
masterfrederick
Beaverton, OR
November 2006
SEP 23, 2007 10:08 AM
Heathen_Dave
Birmingham, AL
July 2005
SEP 23, 2007 10:14 AM
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