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  • TUESDAY AUGUST 28 2007 4:00 PM

Or At Least It Ought to Be



What's the connection between Bush's assholish attempt to deny health insurance to children and reproductive rights?

Glad you asked.

And finally, apparently [LIST]Hillary Clinton is not only saying that we need to make sure that reproductive health be part of any planned health care reform, but--for those of you who've forgotten or never realized--the very existence of the SCHIP came out of the work she did after her "failed" attempt at health care reform during her husband's first administration. (And yes, that's her taking credit for it--but don't worry, right wing nutjobs as well as lefties who support other Democratic candidates back this up.)

And now the latest news about poverty rates now includes information that further puts the lie to Bush's bullshit about not wanting to expand SCHIP to cover those above the poverty line.

The nation's poverty rate declined for the first time this decade, but the number of Americans without health insurance rose to a record high of 47 million in 2006, according to Census figures released today.

Children fared even worse. Last year 11.7 percent of youngsters under 18 years had no health insurance, up from 10.9 percent in 2005. The percentage of uninsured children has increased two years in a row after declining for at least five years, according to the Census data.


How is that possible?

"Despite SCHIP's earlier success in decreasing the number of uninsured children, their numbers have risen for the second straight year because of a decline in employer-based coverage."


So people are working harder, earning less

(The increase in this year's median household income appeared to be largely due to a jump in the number of people in each household taking on full-time jobs, rather than a rise in wages. In fact, earnings of both men and women declined by just over 1 percent.

The drop in the poverty rate from 12.6 percent in 2005 to 12.3 percent in 2006, meanwhile, was almost entirely driven by a decrease in poverty for those over 65),

and fewer jobs are offering health coverage.

HIllarycare--or fuck, any kind of national program, whether a single-payer system or nationalized hospitals--is starting to look pretty goddamn good, don't you think?

Bitch_PhD still isn't sure who she supports in the primary, but is pretty sure that Hillary's the best choice soley from a reproductive rights perspective.

 

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Comments
reprobate

reprobate

New Orleans, LA
December 2002

AUG 28, 2007 08:20 PM

raist333 said:
xazapdmytinu said:

"Also, it takes one bad choice to become a teen mother, whereas it takes continuous disregard for your own health to require a liver or lung transplant."

...But why am I required to pay for EITHER choice if I didn't make it?



Because you live in this thing called society. Everyone pools their resources for mutual benefit and economy of scale. That's the way it works. You're not paying for anyone's lung transplant, you are paying for a tiny fraction of everyone's medical problems, and in no cogent way does this imply a right to dictate behavior. Conversely, the lack of right to dictate behavior doesn't impute a right not to pay. The government does lots of things with "my" money that I don't like, along with everyone else.

Twelve

Twelve

Bay City, MI
April 2007

AUG 28, 2007 08:22 PM

Morgan said:
I will bet you a dollar that at some point, someone will respond to this by saying that "if she didn't want to get pregnant, she shouldn't have had sex!".

And then my head will explode.



Well, to be fair, that's true.

But I'll go with the Camille Paglia argument here and say that while that may be the ideal, a much better policy is to consider the truth; teens and others are going to have sex and get pregnant, and it needs to be dealt with, not swept under the rug.

Anyway:

State officials in Michigan, concerned that the law required SCHIP to fund contraception and sterilization services,amended Michigan's Title XXI State Plan to remove coverage for those services.



I'm glad that my state hates gays and people who like to have sex. blackeyed

Sex ed is so fucking inadequate here it's painful. Just the other day I had to direct a friend of mine to Planned Parenthood because no one had ever seen fit to notify her of its existence.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 08:25 PM

reprobate said:

raist333 said:
xazapdmytinu said:

"Also, it takes one bad choice to become a teen mother, whereas it takes continuous disregard for your own health to require a liver or lung transplant."

...But why am I required to pay for EITHER choice if I didn't make it?



Because you live in this thing called society. Everyone pools their resources for mutual benefit and economy of scale. That's the way it works. You're not paying for anyone's lung transplant, you are paying for a tiny fraction of everyone's medical problems, and in no cogent way does this imply a right to dictate behavior. Conversely, the lack of right to dictate behavior doesn't impute a right not to pay. The government does lots of things with "my" money that I don't like, along with everyone else.



Words cannot express how happy I am every time you enter into a thread that has been causing me frustration.

Seriously.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

AUG 28, 2007 08:34 PM

TwelveTone said:

Morgan said:
I will bet you a dollar that at some point, someone will respond to this by saying that "if she didn't want to get pregnant, she shouldn't have had sex!".

And then my head will explode.



Well, to be fair, that's true.

But I'll go with the Camille Paglia argument here and say that while that may be the ideal, a much better policy is to consider the truth; teens and others are going to have sex and get pregnant, and it needs to be dealt with, not swept under the rug.



i agree with you that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. Inadequacies in state services has a lot to do with it. I am a single father. I have full custody of my daughter. Once a year i get a call from Child Services, from a different snooty agent each time, and they say "You haven't paid child support in <insert daughter's age at the time here>, you have to make amends or you will be arrested"

Every year i go through this. They bother me, because they can find me, but i know people that haven't paid child support in years, have no intention to, and never get jail time or anything.

What i am getting at. Is the woman usually bears the weight of unplanned parenthood, while the man just kind of says "it wasn't me" and walks away. Men need to step up to the plate, even if the relationship with the pregnant woman isn't ever going to happen. Personal responsibility would resolve a lot of the issues with teenage pregnancy.

A vagina cannot just squirt a baby out on it's own, it takes a penis in the equation somewhere to make that happen. The human attached to that penis should be held just as responsible as the vagina.


reprobate

reprobate

New Orleans, LA
December 2002

AUG 28, 2007 08:39 PM

indiecred17 said:

SnowgodCCR said:

Morgan said:
Seriously, what the fuck is with all the lurkers coming out of the wordwork and saying really stupid things every time an article about women's issues gets posted?



Right, because the debate about funding a public healthcare system is soley a womens issue. I don't have a better solution, but I'm not interested paying for other people's healthcare, or other people's anything for that matter, unless I choose to. I don't have a problem giving a vagrant my takeout if I see fit, but I have a problem with someone coming up to me and telling me to give that same person my takeout. I plunk into the employee fund at work every week, that way if someone's house burns down or spouse dies, they have a bit of money to cover some costs. But it's my choice to contribute to the fund, I'm sure that my dilhole boss sure as hell doesn't contribute, and that's his choice.
If I were given the choice to pay into a public healthcare system or not to, I probally would contribute a few percent of my check per week. But I'm not happy about someone TELLING me to pay into it.
Time to jump on me and make me look like an asshole.



goog point sir.... im also perplexed as to where public healthcare became a women's issue... while 'decent' to pay for someone elses abortions or prenatal care (whatever thier choice is) it should not be mandatory.. the decent thing for the government or whoever supports it to back off of everyone who is against it.. and pay it themselves... i have made sure to have health insurance.. i have made sure to also have protected sex..... im doing my part... and in my opinion thats enough... if i get laid off or something unforseen like that happens, i will rely on my own preparation and funds to make up for where the very basic government healthcare falls short... and will be GRATEFUL for what the have provided...



You going to "rely on your own preparation" to build your own roads, too? And hey, I've never been to Tempe, why the hell are my tax dollars paying to move water thousands of miles so you can live in a desert? Go suck on a cactus if you're thirsty.

reprobate

reprobate

New Orleans, LA
December 2002

AUG 28, 2007 08:40 PM

Morgan said:

reprobate said:

raist333 said:
xazapdmytinu said:

"Also, it takes one bad choice to become a teen mother, whereas it takes continuous disregard for your own health to require a liver or lung transplant."

...But why am I required to pay for EITHER choice if I didn't make it?



Because you live in this thing called society. Everyone pools their resources for mutual benefit and economy of scale. That's the way it works. You're not paying for anyone's lung transplant, you are paying for a tiny fraction of everyone's medical problems, and in no cogent way does this imply a right to dictate behavior. Conversely, the lack of right to dictate behavior doesn't impute a right not to pay. The government does lots of things with "my" money that I don't like, along with everyone else.



Words cannot express how happy I am every time you enter into a thread that has been causing me frustration.

Seriously.



Eh, everybody has to have a hobby. wink

brett54

brett54

Australia
November 2004

AUG 28, 2007 08:44 PM

Morgan said:
Seriously, what the fuck is with all the lurkers coming out of the wordwork and saying really stupid things every time an article about women's issues gets posted?



Last time I checked, it took "two to tango" - half my DNA is in my 3 kids.

I think the first post, whilst a gross over simplification, is pointing out that "should the public pay for peoples choices".

Yes, yes, yes, some pregnancies are not planned etc. etc.
... an equally valid argument ... but equally, a choice (risk) you take having sex (with or without contraception).
...just as is drinking, riding a motorbike etc.

I would've thought Bush should be encouraging births (as the government has done here in Australia) to improve the birthrate (hence lower the need for nasty immigration).

History lesson:
Who invented public health insurance?
Who "lost his job" very shortly after?

If you said Baron Von Bismark, you'd be spot on.

Public provided health insurance should NOT be a bottomless pit - the UK, Gordon Brown, tipped GBP.10 billion into the mess and got zot for it - the British NHS is also the 3rd biggest employer in the world after the Chinese Army and Indian Railways.

We want health care, but we don't want to make the hard choice of what is covered and what not - I'd like the government to have enough money to pay for decent education also.

Twelve

Twelve

Bay City, MI
April 2007

AUG 28, 2007 08:44 PM

DevilsReject said:
A vagina cannot just squirt a baby out on it's own, it takes a penis in the equation somewhere to make that happen. The human attached to that penis should be held just as responsible as the vagina.



I fully agree.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 08:46 PM

brett54 said:
Yes, yes, yes, some pregnancies are not planned etc. etc.
... an equally valid argument ... but equally, a choice (risk) you take having sex (with or without contraception).
...just as is drinking, riding a motorbike etc.



What?

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005

AUG 28, 2007 08:53 PM

If you smoke a cigarette, you'll have a baby.

brett54

brett54

Australia
November 2004

AUG 28, 2007 08:59 PM

Morgan said:

brett54 said:
Yes, yes, yes, some pregnancies are not planned etc. etc.
... an equally valid argument ... but equally, a choice (risk) you take having sex (with or without contraception).
...just as is drinking, riding a motorbike etc.



What?



I'm agreeing with you
...but, at some point people have to realise that have sex (a baby etc.) has risks - no contraception is reliable.

We (as I had to) have to take responsibility for our own actions, hence arguments about why should the government be responsible for it - I'm sitting on the fence.

I think what the "kissing daughter.." post was trying to say, was the best way for his ex-wife to take responsibility for her own actions (having sex) was to have a baby - she'll think twice about the consequences now.

It is a big choice, but the easy 5 minutes in the dark, can bring a life time (or 3) of misery.

Sex is easy, childminding and breast feeding is not easy.
They seem to avoid telling you this during sex education classes.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

AUG 28, 2007 08:59 PM

_Poptard_ said:
If you smoke a cigarette, you'll have a baby.



i've been smoking for a long time, i have not had a baby, what am i doing wrong?

I think he means if you drink and ride a motorbike you'll get pregnant.

michael9000000

michael9000000

New York, NY
July 2007

AUG 28, 2007 09:02 PM

RileyStClair said:

raist333 said:
If I choose to smoke, why should you have to pay for my lung transplant?

If I choose to drink heavily, why should you have to pay for my liver transplant?

If you are a teen girl, choose to have sex and get pregnant, why should America be responsible for paying your medical expenses?

So no Bitch_PhD, socialized medicine doesn't "look pretty goddamn good" ...if you're pro-choice and pro-consequence.



newsflash: women don't choose to get pregnant. it either happens or it doesn't and it's not ultimately within our control.

also, what the fuck does "pro-consequence" even mean? an unwanted child is not a punishment for slutting around, mmkay?



wow... i'm stunned... women ultimately have no control nor choice as to whether or not they get pregnant? that's absolutely stunning... i hadn't heard the news... when did abstinence become illegal?

Quirky

Quirky

Birmingham, AL
October 2005

AUG 28, 2007 09:14 PM

DevilsReject said:

_Poptard_ said:
If you smoke a cigarette, you'll have a baby.



i've been smoking for a long time, i have not had a baby, what am i doing wrong?

I think he means if you drink and ride a motorbike you'll get pregnant.



Sure is a good thing I don't have to pay for it. I might just spray someone in the face with a can of Radon, if I had to.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 09:17 PM

michael9000000 said:
wow... i'm stunned... women ultimately have no control nor choice as to whether or not they get pregnant? that's absolutely stunning... i hadn't heard the news... when did abstinence become illegal?



Are you suggesting that any woman who does not want to get pregnant should never, ever have sex?

I never want to have children, does that mean I should be celibate forever, since birth control and condoms can fail?

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