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  • TUESDAY AUGUST 28 2007 4:00 PM

Or At Least It Ought to Be



What's the connection between Bush's assholish attempt to deny health insurance to children and reproductive rights?

Glad you asked.

And finally, apparently [LIST]Hillary Clinton is not only saying that we need to make sure that reproductive health be part of any planned health care reform, but--for those of you who've forgotten or never realized--the very existence of the SCHIP came out of the work she did after her "failed" attempt at health care reform during her husband's first administration. (And yes, that's her taking credit for it--but don't worry, right wing nutjobs as well as lefties who support other Democratic candidates back this up.)

And now the latest news about poverty rates now includes information that further puts the lie to Bush's bullshit about not wanting to expand SCHIP to cover those above the poverty line.

The nation's poverty rate declined for the first time this decade, but the number of Americans without health insurance rose to a record high of 47 million in 2006, according to Census figures released today.

Children fared even worse. Last year 11.7 percent of youngsters under 18 years had no health insurance, up from 10.9 percent in 2005. The percentage of uninsured children has increased two years in a row after declining for at least five years, according to the Census data.


How is that possible?

"Despite SCHIP's earlier success in decreasing the number of uninsured children, their numbers have risen for the second straight year because of a decline in employer-based coverage."


So people are working harder, earning less

(The increase in this year's median household income appeared to be largely due to a jump in the number of people in each household taking on full-time jobs, rather than a rise in wages. In fact, earnings of both men and women declined by just over 1 percent.

The drop in the poverty rate from 12.6 percent in 2005 to 12.3 percent in 2006, meanwhile, was almost entirely driven by a decrease in poverty for those over 65),

and fewer jobs are offering health coverage.

HIllarycare--or fuck, any kind of national program, whether a single-payer system or nationalized hospitals--is starting to look pretty goddamn good, don't you think?

Bitch_PhD still isn't sure who she supports in the primary, but is pretty sure that Hillary's the best choice soley from a reproductive rights perspective.

 

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Comments
Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

AUG 28, 2007 05:40 PM

RileyStClair said:

SockPuppet said:
It is not biologically normal for humans to drink and smoke.



i beg to differ.
some of us got the "lush" gene, ok?



...when Irish eyes are smiling...

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 05:42 PM

SnowgodCCR said:
Right, because the debate about funding a public healthcare system is soley a womens issue.



Oh please. My comment wasn't specifically about this thread, it was about the fact that, recently, it seems that anytime a vaguely feminist article is posted here lurkers come out of the wordwork to say things that boil down to "women should keep their legs closed if they don't want to get pregnant!" or "most feminists don't shave their legs and hate teh mens".

Skywisdom

Skywisdom

Portland, OR
December 2005

AUG 28, 2007 05:45 PM

SnowgodCCR said:

Morgan said:
Seriously, what the fuck is with all the lurkers coming out of the wordwork and saying really stupid things every time an article about women's issues gets posted?



Right, because the debate about funding a public healthcare system is soley a womens issue. I don't have a better solution, but I'm not interested paying for other people's healthcare, or other people's anything for that matter, unless I choose to. I don't have a problem giving a vagrant my takeout if I see fit, but I have a problem with someone coming up to me and telling me to give that same person my takeout. I plunk into the employee fund at work every week, that way if someone's house burns down or spouse dies, they have a bit of money to cover some costs. But it's my choice to contribute to the fund, I'm sure that my dilhole boss sure as hell doesn't contribute, and that's his choice.
If I were given the choice to pay into a public healthcare system or not to, I probally would contribute a few percent of my check per week. But I'm not happy about someone TELLING me to pay into it.
Time to jump on me and make me look like an asshole.



I'm certainly not going to call you an asshole, but think about it this way: Those same people you would be paying to help are also paying to help you if you need it, right?

Seej

Seej

I'm lost
August 2007

AUG 28, 2007 05:48 PM

raist333 said:
If I choose to smoke, why should you have to pay for my lung transplant?

If I choose to drink heavily, why should you have to pay for my liver transplant?

If you are a teen girl, choose to have sex and get pregnant, why should America be responsible for paying your medical expenses?

So no Bitch_PhD, socialized medicine doesn't "look pretty goddamn good" ...if you're pro-choice and pro-consequence.



Y'know, if you were here in the UK then I would be paying for those transplants. That's OK though, because you'd have been paying for it too. And we'd both pay for the pregnant teenage girl. Y'know why?

It's a nice thing to do.

I appreciate that each person's personal politics are different, and that perhaps you were just trying to play devil's advocate, but is it really worth digging your heels in and forcing some poor kid to birth a baby she's ill-prepared to care for just because it's gonna cost you a few extra dollars each year?

And then of course there's the theory (see: Freakonomics for an intro) that readily available abortions dramatically lower the crime rate by reducing the number of kids born into ill-educated poverty, if all the "Help your neighbour" stuff rubs you up the wrong way.

I'm not saying we should all go communist, and I do happen to think there's a whole slew of problems with the UK's NHS, but arguing against abortions on economic grounds is even more heartless than the pro-life lot.

CannedAir

CannedAir

Tempe, AZ
June 2007

AUG 28, 2007 05:49 PM

SnowgodCCR said:

Morgan said:
Seriously, what the fuck is with all the lurkers coming out of the wordwork and saying really stupid things every time an article about women's issues gets posted?



Right, because the debate about funding a public healthcare system is soley a womens issue. I don't have a better solution, but I'm not interested paying for other people's healthcare, or other people's anything for that matter, unless I choose to. I don't have a problem giving a vagrant my takeout if I see fit, but I have a problem with someone coming up to me and telling me to give that same person my takeout. I plunk into the employee fund at work every week, that way if someone's house burns down or spouse dies, they have a bit of money to cover some costs. But it's my choice to contribute to the fund, I'm sure that my dilhole boss sure as hell doesn't contribute, and that's his choice.
If I were given the choice to pay into a public healthcare system or not to, I probally would contribute a few percent of my check per week. But I'm not happy about someone TELLING me to pay into it.
Time to jump on me and make me look like an asshole.



goog point sir.... im also perplexed as to where public healthcare became a women's issue... while 'decent' to pay for someone elses abortions or prenatal care (whatever thier choice is) it should not be mandatory.. the decent thing for the government or whoever supports it to back off of everyone who is against it.. and pay it themselves... i have made sure to have health insurance.. i have made sure to also have protected sex..... im doing my part... and in my opinion thats enough... if i get laid off or something unforseen like that happens, i will rely on my own preparation and funds to make up for where the very basic government healthcare falls short... and will be GRATEFUL for what the have provided...

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 05:49 PM

Seej said:
I appreciate that each person's personal politics are different, and that perhaps you were just trying to play devil's advocate, but is it really worth digging your heels in and forcing some poor kid to birth a baby she's ill-prepared to care for just because it's gonna cost you a few extra dollars each year?.



I will bet you a dollar that at some point, someone will respond to this by saying that "if she didn't want to get pregnant, she shouldn't have had sex!".

And then my head will explode.

Metaverse

Metaverse

USA
March 2005

AUG 28, 2007 05:50 PM


RileyStClair said:

newsflash: women don't choose to get pregnant. it either happens or it doesn't and it's not ultimately within our control.



I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this statement, and I'm being serious. Could you explain your meaning ?

How is getting pregnant not within a womans control, at least in most situations. Having sex is a choice. Using birth control is a choice. If those aren't within your control, then I am missing something. If I misunderstood your statement, then I apologize.

And Morgan's head may explode now....sorry.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 05:53 PM

Metaverse said:I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this statement, and I'm being serious. Could you explain your meaning ?

How is getting pregnant not within a womans control, at least in most situations. Having sex is a choice. Using birth control is a choice. If those aren't within your control, then I am missing something. If I misunderstood your statement, then I apologize.

And Morgan's head may explode now....sorry.



Birth control doesn't always work.
Rape happens.
Condoms break.
etc, etc.

Morgan

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

AUG 28, 2007 05:54 PM

indiecred17 said:i will rely on my own preparation and funds to make up for where the very basic government healthcare falls short... and will be GRATEFUL for what the have provided...



And all the people who simply don't have the funds to cover necessary medical procedures or to prepare for an emergency are just fucked then, right?

PatrickY

PatrickY

Vancouver, WA
December 2003

AUG 28, 2007 05:54 PM

SnowgodCCR said:

Morgan said:
Seriously, what the fuck is with all the lurkers coming out of the wordwork and saying really stupid things every time an article about women's issues gets posted?



Right, because the debate about funding a public healthcare system is soley a womens issue. I don't have a better solution, but I'm not interested paying for other people's healthcare, or other people's anything for that matter, unless I choose to. I don't have a problem giving a vagrant my takeout if I see fit, but I have a problem with someone coming up to me and telling me to give that same person my takeout. I plunk into the employee fund at work every week, that way if someone's house burns down or spouse dies, they have a bit of money to cover some costs. But it's my choice to contribute to the fund, I'm sure that my dilhole boss sure as hell doesn't contribute, and that's his choice.
If I were given the choice to pay into a public healthcare system or not to, I probally would contribute a few percent of my check per week. But I'm not happy about someone TELLING me to pay into it.
Time to jump on me and make me look like an asshole.



You already are "told" you have to pay into social security, into maintenance of the nation's infrastructure, into the defense budget, into public education, and so on and so forth. That's what your taxes are for.

It boggles my mind that people get so huffy about the idea of contributing potentially nothing more of their money than they already are for universal health care, when they're currently, and involuntarily helping pay the interest on at least one broken-treaded husk of steel lying shattered in a Baghdad alley.

Metaverse

Metaverse

USA
March 2005

AUG 28, 2007 06:00 PM

Morgan said:

Metaverse said:I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this statement, and I'm being serious. Could you explain your meaning ?

How is getting pregnant not within a womans control, at least in most situations. Having sex is a choice. Using birth control is a choice. If those aren't within your control, then I am missing something. If I misunderstood your statement, then I apologize.

And Morgan's head may explode now....sorry.



Birth control doesn't always work.
Rape happens.
Condoms break.
etc, etc.



That is why I said most situations. And although I don't believe in abortion, I do believe in a womans right to choose, because, sometimes, things happen. I was just trying to understand what she meant with her statement.

RileyStClair

RileyStClair

Los Angeles, CA
September 2006

AUG 28, 2007 06:02 PM

Metaverse said:

RileyStClair said:

newsflash: women don't choose to get pregnant. it either happens or it doesn't and it's not ultimately within our control.



I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this statement, and I'm being serious. Could you explain your meaning ?

How is getting pregnant not within a womans control, at least in most situations. Having sex is a choice. Using birth control is a choice. If those aren't within your control, then I am missing something. If I misunderstood your statement, then I apologize.

And Morgan's head may explode now....sorry.



sure, there are ways to reduce the likelihood that you will become pregnant, but ultimately, none of those methods is 100% effective, as morgan reiterated.

and really, obviously sex is usually (but not always) a choice, but as human beings, we are designed to fuck. that's just how it works. telling teenagers not to fuck is, as statistics on abstinence-only education shows, completely ineffective.

as soon as we start seeing reproductive issues as public health issues and not moral or religious ones, it becomes glaringly obvious that a national health care system would be remiss in not providing contraceptives to those who seek them.

Seej

Seej

I'm lost
August 2007

AUG 28, 2007 06:05 PM


Birth control doesn't always work.
Rape happens.
Condoms break.
etc, etc.



Absolutely, but you forgot the most important one; teenagers, at least those under 18, are kids. They're immature, and not adult. That's why they're not afforded the same choices and freedoms (voting, drinking, credit cards, etc.) that adults enjoy - they can and do make shitty decisions because they're still growing up.

So if some 16 year old girl is dumb enough to get drunk (surely not a great stretch of the imagination), then she's got both her immaturity and the booze screwing with her ability to make a good decision about sex. She may behave irresponsibly, but this is to be expected and punishing her by forcing her to go forward with the pregnancy is unlikely to benefit either her, her family, the child, or society.

Oh, and now I've done my best to shoot down that potential "if she didn't want to get pregnant, she shouldn't have had sex!" argument I'd be happy to take that dollar bet you offer Morgan. I accept paypal smile

Metaverse

Metaverse

USA
March 2005

AUG 28, 2007 06:14 PM

RileyStClair said:

Metaverse said:

RileyStClair said:

newsflash: women don't choose to get pregnant. it either happens or it doesn't and it's not ultimately within our control.



I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this statement, and I'm being serious. Could you explain your meaning ?

How is getting pregnant not within a womans control, at least in most situations. Having sex is a choice. Using birth control is a choice. If those aren't within your control, then I am missing something. If I misunderstood your statement, then I apologize.

And Morgan's head may explode now....sorry.



sure, there are ways to reduce the likelihood that you will become pregnant, but ultimately, none of those methods is 100% effective, as morgan reiterated.

and really, obviously sex is usually (but not always) a choice, but as human beings, we are designed to fuck. that's just how it works. telling teenagers not to fuck is, as statistics on abstinence-only education shows, completely ineffective.

as soon as we start seeing reproductive issues as public health issues and not moral or religious ones, it becomes glaringly obvious that a national health care system would be remiss in not providing contraceptives to those who seek them.



Thanks for the response. I see where you're coming from now. I agree on the seeing it as a public health issue and not moral/religious one.

CannedAir

CannedAir

Tempe, AZ
June 2007

AUG 28, 2007 06:19 PM

Seej said:


Birth control doesn't always work.
Rape happens.
Condoms break.
etc, etc.



Absolutely, but you forgot the most important one; teenagers, at least those under 18, are kids. They're immature, and not adult. That's why they're not afforded the same choices and freedoms (voting, drinking, credit cards, etc.) that adults enjoy - they can and do make shitty decisions because they're still growing up.

So if some 16 year old girl is dumb enough to get drunk (surely not a great stretch of the imagination), then she's got both her immaturity and the booze screwing with her ability to make a good decision about sex. She may behave irresponsibly, but this is to be expected and punishing her by forcing her to go forward with the pregnancy is unlikely to benefit either her, her family, the child, or society.

Oh, and now I've done my best to shoot down that potential "if she didn't want to get pregnant, she shouldn't have had sex!" argument I'd be happy to take that dollar bet you offer Morgan. I accept paypal smile



thats true.. and i dont think anyone here is questioning a woman's right to choose... but its a little irrelevant to the point.. wheres my right to CHOOSE.. not to pay for some abortion i had no part in...

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