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  • THURSDAY JULY 19 2007 4:00 PM

Why Gender Matters



Why isn't it as discriminatory to vote for a woman "just because she's a woman" as it is to vote for a man "just because he's a man"? What difference does sex make? Who cares if the government is run mostly by white men or mostly by black women or mostly by purple dogs--it's the *ideas* that matter!

Bull. Shit.

Reading this piece in the WaPo brought to mind all of these annoying arguments that keep cropping up. And since if Clinton gets the Democratic nod (and believe me, folks, she will--you can say you heard it here first, 'kay?), we're going to hear EVEN MORE of this stuff, I'ma post a li'l explanation right now and you all can bookmark it and refer back to it as needed, 'kay?

1. Seeing gender/racial/gay/etc. representation as important /= voting for (or hiring, or admitting to college) someone "just because they're" a woman/a person of color. The argument itself is sexist/racist/homophobic, if you think about it for just a second: it implies that the *only* reason one would vote for a woman is because of her gender, and that being "a woman" makes one devoid of ideas--as if Candidate Girl is a cardboard cutout with boobs.

Folks who are happy to see a woman/a black man running for office, and want to vote for Clinton/Obama on those grounds, wouldn't vote for, oh, say, Phyllis Schlafly or Ward Churchill. Women and ethnic minorities are not all the same. They have ideas, just like the white guys.

2. Gender/racial/gay/etc. representation *does matter.* It would be lovely if it didn't, but we just happen to live in a world where, all other things being equal, a given woman's experience of America is going to be different than a given man's. Just as an Indian's, or a black person's, or a Filipino's experience of America--all other things being equal--is going to be different than a white person's. I know *that* black people are much more likely to be tailed by security guards while shopping in fancy stores, but I don't actually know what it *feels like* to be in that position. In theory, I think it sucks. In practice, it's probably a less urgent issue for me than a lot of other things. I'm all for gay rights, and I know that there are states that have laws making it illegal for employers to offer domestic partner benefits. I also know that some employers (universities, for instance) offer individual insurance packages to people as a way of trying to make sure they can make job offers to smart gay scholars. What I *didn't* know until an Actual Lesbian pointed it out to me--because it simply never occured to straight li'l gay-friendly me to think about, since it *never came up in my life*--is that these packages mean that gay academics earn less than their straight counterparts--because they end up spending a big chunk of their paychecks on "private" insurance, not to mention lawyers, in order to make sure their partners and kids have health coverage and legal protections in case something happens to them.

Hence, for instance, in the linked article, it's a woman representative with a young child who *just happens* to be introducing federal legislation to protect women's rights to breastfeed in public. Back when Plan B was getting blocked by the FDA, it *just happened* to be a woman who quit the FDA in disgust, and it *just happened* to be two more women, Senators Clinton and Murray, who stepped up and put a hold on the nomination process for a new FDA chair until the FDA stopped stalling. It *just happens* that the people who pushed hardest for women's right to vote were women. Yes, there were male suffragists, and god bless them. And there were women who thought that women's suffrage was unnecessary, and that the suffragettes were man-hating hysterics. But women--*all* women--didn't get the right to vote because men who had the "right ideas" gave it to them. They got it because enough of them stood up and demanded it.

3. We are not, contrary to what a lot of people would like to believe, brains on sticks. The idea that bodies don't matter, because ideas are somehow pure and universal and perfectly communicable, is itself, if you think about it, a sexist (and racist and homophobic, etc.) idea. Or at least, believing it perpetuates sexism, even if the person convinced of its truth thinks him- or herself perfectly convinced that All People Are Equal. Equality /= "the same," and (for instance), it is a simple fact that women are the ones to bear children, and that women bear the lioness's share of caring for children. Yet when we talk about these issues, we talk about them as peripheral to, rather than central to, human experience--if you "choose" to have a child, then the consequences of that for your life are, at best, something society as a whole "accomodates." Because the default, universal, brain-on-a-stick way in which we're all "equal" assumes that we're all autonomous individuals, and that being imperfectly autonomous (pregnant, a parent) is somehow an "aberration." Which is true--if you're a guy. If you're a chick, pregnancy/motherhood are pretty central to your humanity--even if the way that centrality manifests itself is that you remember to take a pill *every single morning* in order to avoid it.

This argument brought to you via a couple centuries of feminist philosophy. If you want to think about this stuff in depth, as opposed to getting the severely condensed web-friendly SG newswire version, go pick up a copy of The Second Sex, which oughta be required reading for everyone.


Bitch_PhD loves the header image, which is a (slightly altered) detail from "Simone de Beauvoir With Bear," by Gordon Lester, a former student and TA.

 

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JunkyardAngel

JunkyardAngel

San Gabriel, CA
February 2006

JUL 19, 2007 07:37 PM

Rude_Ruca said:
I get what you are trying to say here (to a point) but as an older sister to a younger white male, I am concerned for his future. He is a very opened minded, intelligent dude, but because he is white, is he going to have to apologize for every move he makes for the rest of eternity because it may or may not fit some feminist's, or any minority group's, for that matter, opinion? I'm sorry, but even as a liberal female, I do not buy into some of this extreme thinking. Like my dear friend the freak said, we REALLY need to vote based on where these candidates stand- NOT because the USA has a history of having white men in office. Is that little (or not so little) facet of history fucked up? You are damned sight it is. Is it time for a change? Again, darn tootin'! Am I going to vote for political opportunist Hilary because she is a female who basically pulled the strings during Clinton's presidency? Most likely no. Now, would I like to see Obama get the vote? You bet your marbles, kiddo's wink



RR - I totally agree with you, but *I* thought the point of the articel was that gender and race are part of who we are, so of course they are a part of the way we form opinions/views.

I THINK that was the point. Well, it is my point, anyway!! biggrin biggrin I am sick of people saying that "we are all the same" because that sure as shit takes away most of our individuality.

Different. But equal.

And I think we should have concern for white males, because at this point it too often seems like they are the dumping ground for all 'expected' stereotypes that are evil.

I think males in general have it rough these days. So many women think all men are jerks who are on-the-take and these women never stop to consider that perhpas it is the males THEY pick!



Rude_Ruca

Rude_Ruca

I'm lost
December 2004

JUL 19, 2007 07:38 PM

reprobate said:

Rude_Ruca said:
I get what you are trying to say here (to a point) but as an older sister to a younger white male, I am concerned for his future. He is a very opened minded, intelligent dude, but because he is white, is he going to have to apologize for every move he makes for the rest of eternity because it may or may not fit some feminist's, or any minority group's, for that matter, opinion? I'm sorry, but even as a liberal female, I do not buy into some of this extreme thinking. Like my dear friend the freak said, we REALLY need to vote based on where these candidates stand- NOT because the USA has a history of having white men in office. Is that little (or not so little) facet of history fucked up? You are damned sight it is. Is it time for a change? Again, darn tootin'! Am I going to vote for political opportunist Hilary because she is a female who basically pulled the strings during Clinton's presidency? Most likely no. Now, would I like to see Obama get the vote? You bet your marbles, kiddo's wink



I don't suppose that, you know, you've ever bestirred yourself to read Hillary's bio or anything.



Oh, no, I have. I tend to not buy into some of her socialist tendencies. Thanks for checking in with me and, like, you know, keeping me straight on my points and shit. Your tops, reprobate, just tops! whatever wink

reprobate

reprobate

New Orleans, LA
December 2002

JUL 19, 2007 07:43 PM

Rude_Ruca said:

reprobate said:

Rude_Ruca said:
I get what you are trying to say here (to a point) but as an older sister to a younger white male, I am concerned for his future. He is a very opened minded, intelligent dude, but because he is white, is he going to have to apologize for every move he makes for the rest of eternity because it may or may not fit some feminist's, or any minority group's, for that matter, opinion? I'm sorry, but even as a liberal female, I do not buy into some of this extreme thinking. Like my dear friend the freak said, we REALLY need to vote based on where these candidates stand- NOT because the USA has a history of having white men in office. Is that little (or not so little) facet of history fucked up? You are damned sight it is. Is it time for a change? Again, darn tootin'! Am I going to vote for political opportunist Hilary because she is a female who basically pulled the strings during Clinton's presidency? Most likely no. Now, would I like to see Obama get the vote? You bet your marbles, kiddo's wink



I don't suppose that, you know, you've ever bestirred yourself to read Hillary's bio or anything.



Oh, no, I have. I tend to not buy into some of her socialist tendencies. Thanks for checking in with me and, like, you know, keeping me straight on my points and shit. Your tops, reprobate, just tops! whatever wink



Well, I do try.

I'm just a little confused about how the fact that Hillary has the best political resume of pretty much anyone running translates into "basically pull(ing) strings".

Don't like her stances, fine, but anyone who say's she's not consummately qualified is deluded.

Rude_Ruca

Rude_Ruca

I'm lost
December 2004

JUL 19, 2007 07:45 PM

JunkyardAngel said:

Rude_Ruca said:
I get what you are trying to say here (to a point) but as an older sister to a younger white male, I am concerned for his future. He is a very opened minded, intelligent dude, but because he is white, is he going to have to apologize for every move he makes for the rest of eternity because it may or may not fit some feminist's, or any minority group's, for that matter, opinion? I'm sorry, but even as a liberal female, I do not buy into some of this extreme thinking. Like my dear friend the freak said, we REALLY need to vote based on where these candidates stand- NOT because the USA has a history of having white men in office. Is that little (or not so little) facet of history fucked up? You are damned sight it is. Is it time for a change? Again, darn tootin'! Am I going to vote for political opportunist Hilary because she is a female who basically pulled the strings during Clinton's presidency? Most likely no. Now, would I like to see Obama get the vote? You bet your marbles, kiddo's wink



RR - I totally agree with you, but *I* thought the point of the articel was that gender and race are part of who we are, so of course they are a part of the way we form opinions/views.

I THINK that was the point. Well, it is my point, anyway!! biggrin biggrin I am sick of people saying that "we are all the same" because that sure as shit takes away most of our individuality.

Different. But equal.

And I think we should have concern for white males, because at this point it too often seems like they are the dumping ground for all 'expected' stereotypes that are evil.

I think males in general have it rough these days. So many women think all men are jerks who are on-the-take and these women never stop to consider that perhpas it is the males THEY pick!





Sorry, it's just a knee jerk reaction to things that tend to insinuate all things "white man" are incorrect and need endless explanation. In this particular article, I just felt that there was somewhat of a negative connotation to be associated with "white men". Not all white men in politics are evil, they don't all travel through the same right winged, conservative vein. I think that generalization, in my opinion, is getting played out. So, yeah, perhaps in a jerk-y way, I took this to a different, slightly unrelated level, but, well, you catch my drift....sorry, it's gettin' late here on the east coast and I am gettin' tiiiiiiiredddd..... wink biggrin

P.S. My white republican, farm raised father REALLY wanted to vote for Colin Powell and my uber liberal mother cannot stand Hilary, so, I really am not sure there is any one official formula here confused

Rude_Ruca

Rude_Ruca

I'm lost
December 2004

JUL 19, 2007 07:49 PM

reprobate said:

Rude_Ruca said:

reprobate said:

Rude_Ruca said:
I get what you are trying to say here (to a point) but as an older sister to a younger white male, I am concerned for his future. He is a very opened minded, intelligent dude, but because he is white, is he going to have to apologize for every move he makes for the rest of eternity because it may or may not fit some feminist's, or any minority group's, for that matter, opinion? I'm sorry, but even as a liberal female, I do not buy into some of this extreme thinking. Like my dear friend the freak said, we REALLY need to vote based on where these candidates stand- NOT because the USA has a history of having white men in office. Is that little (or not so little) facet of history fucked up? You are damned sight it is. Is it time for a change? Again, darn tootin'! Am I going to vote for political opportunist Hilary because she is a female who basically pulled the strings during Clinton's presidency? Most likely no. Now, would I like to see Obama get the vote? You bet your marbles, kiddo's wink



I don't suppose that, you know, you've ever bestirred yourself to read Hillary's bio or anything.



Oh, no, I have. I tend to not buy into some of her socialist tendencies. Thanks for checking in with me and, like, you know, keeping me straight on my points and shit. Your tops, reprobate, just tops! whatever wink



Well, I do try.

I'm just a little confused about how the fact that Hillary has the best political resume of pretty much anyone running translates into "basically pull(ing) strings".

Don't like her stances, fine, but anyone who say's she's not consummately qualified is deluded.



No, no, I am sorry, I don't think I was making myself clear.....sorry....I don't think she is trying to pull any political favors, I was referring to the fact that she was basically the balls in da'house while Clinton was getting his massaged by that intern, and for that she was Billy Boy's puppet master (hence the string pulling reference, and also, yes allowing Hilary to beef up the political resume- girlfriend was right there in the thick of it).....lol, I know, cheap shot, but yeah....The one thing that I give Hilary is she is ONE tough, stale, ice cold cookie!

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 19, 2007 07:54 PM

publicAnemone said:
Democratic economists are rare.



I've no idea why you say that. I see no evidence it's true.

unfiltrator

unfiltrator

San Francisco, CA
April 2004

JUL 19, 2007 07:55 PM

TheFuckOffKid said:

publicAnemone said:
Democratic economists are rare.



I've no idea why you say that. I see no evidence it's true.



It's only an anecdote I've heard.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 19, 2007 08:02 PM

publicAnemone said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

publicAnemone said:
Democratic economists are rare.



I've no idea why you say that. I see no evidence it's true.



It's only an anecdote I've heard.



As you point out, the previous Clinton administration couldn't fall over itself without accidentally hiring a top rank economist willing to work for it.

I see no evidence that will have changed. Hell, they could offer Krugman a job.

EDIT: By "Democrat economist" I mean a well qualified professional/academic economist willing to serve as a public official in a Democratic administration. Whatever their nominal affiliation or lack of same.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUL 19, 2007 08:04 PM

Rude_Ruca said:
Sorry, it's just a knee jerk reaction to things that tend to insinuate all things "white man" are incorrect and need endless explanation. In this particular article, I just felt that there was somewhat of a negative connotation to be associated with "white men". Not all white men in politics are evil, they don't all travel through the same right winged, conservative vein. I think that generalization, in my opinion, is getting played out. So, yeah, perhaps in a jerk-y way, I took this to a different, slightly unrelated level, but, well, you catch my drift....sorry, it's gettin' late here on the east coast and I am gettin' tiiiiiiiredddd..... wink biggrin

P.S. My white republican, farm raised father REALLY wanted to vote for Colin Powell and my uber liberal mother cannot stand Hilary, so, I really am not sure there is any one official formula here confused


See, I didn't get any suggestion of a negative connotation about white men in the article. I didn't think she was suggesting that they were evil, any more than she was suggesting that she herself was evil for not fully understanding the issue about insurance for university faculty.

She's not saying that there should be no white men in the government, just that the government shouldn't be utterly dominated by white men, because women (and other minorities) have unique life experiences and have a different understanding of the problems facing themselves than any white man does, evil or not.

Her example about women in Congress taking action on issues that affect women is a good example of why this is important: because if you've got 10 issues in front of you and you care about all of them, but you only have time to address 6 of them, you're going to start prioritizing them in other ways, and if you have a direct personal understanding of any of those issues, you're probably going to do something about those ones. If there's a group of people that have concerns and not enough people in government that their voice gets heard, there's a very real danger that every year their problems might get pushed aside "until the next session" (when the same thing will happen), because there isn't anyone with a direct understanding of those problems to speak up. In addition, if a bunch of people with no direct understanding of an issue are putting together a proposed solution for that issue, they're likely to miss fine details and problems with their proposals that would be obvious to someone who knew firsthand about the issue. That's how we end up with legislation that has good intentions but doesn't solve the problem or creates other problems.

Cairo

Cairo

SUICIDEGIRL

Maryland, USA

JUL 19, 2007 08:05 PM

Rude_Ruca said:
I get what you are trying to say here (to a point) but as an older sister to a younger white male, I am concerned for his future. He is a very opened minded, intelligent dude, but because he is white, is he going to have to apologize for every move he makes for the rest of eternity because it may or may not fit some feminist's, or any minority group's, for that matter, opinion?



As an older sister to a young black male, I am concerned for his future as well. He experienced the joy of unwarranted police attention as soon as he started driving, and as he's gotten older and bigger (he's a muscular dude), he's starting to be perceived as more and more of a "threat" to others. He is very open-minded and intelligent, but because he is black, is he going to have to apologize to every white female who interprets his harmless actions as a threat to their physical safety?

My concerns for my brother are different than yours, because his experiences have been (and realistically, will be) different. That difference has a whole hell of a lot to do with the color of his skin and how people perceive the meaning it.

Do I believe that an intelligent white guy can be empathetic enough to want to try to understand my brother's experience as a young black American man? Sure I do. To some extent, he may even be successful. But do I think that an intelligent white guy can fully understand what it means to be a young black American man, including the vast experiences and also the subtleties of institutionalized racism? No. I don't. Thinking about something and empathizing with someone is not the same as living something.

Preferring that the politicians you want to represent you can also understand you (or at the very least, your experience as a citizen) is not a stupid or trivial thing to desire. It doesn't have to be the end-all, be-all of what motivates a person to vote for a certain candidate, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

For the record, I don't support either Obama or Clinton. As far as I'm concerned, all of the presidential candidates can go fuck themselves. (I'm still voting, of course...but I won't be happy.)

tadkil

tadkil

Duluth, GA
September 2004

JUL 19, 2007 08:06 PM

I am going to be brief but concise.

Damn. You Rock.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUL 19, 2007 08:08 PM

Cairo said:
Do I believe that an intelligent white guy can be empathetic enough to want to try to understand my brother's experience as a young black American man? Sure I do. To some extent, he may even be successful. But do I think that an intelligent white guy can fully understand what it means to be a young black American man, including the vast experiences and also the subtleties of institutionalized racism? No. I don't. Thinking about something and empathizing with someone is not the same as living something.


Exactly. smile

PatrickY

PatrickY

Vancouver, WA
December 2003

JUL 19, 2007 08:12 PM

Nicely put, Cairo. Very nicely put.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 19, 2007 08:14 PM

Props to Cairo.

unfiltrator

unfiltrator

San Francisco, CA
April 2004

JUL 19, 2007 08:19 PM

TheFuckOffKid said:

publicAnemone said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

publicAnemone said:
Democratic economists are rare.



I've no idea why you say that. I see no evidence it's true.



It's only an anecdote I've heard.



EDIT: By "Democrat economist" I mean a well qualified professional/academic economist willing to serve as a public official in a Democratic administration. Whatever their nominal affiliation or lack of same.



Thank you.

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