Dude, I was totally thinking the Matrix too when I read that post.

Heh, not all prisoners are charged with a crime.

That's sadly true. And the irony is, look who is footing the bill for the prison expansion...

In regard to the article I think things are going to get worse with prisons before they get any better, if ever. There are just too many factors going against changing the system.

I think one of the biggest factors is that the country as a whole has gotten much too lazy in the past generation or two. People now look for a quick "win, win" option and "no pain, and lots of gain" when faced with lifes problems. I couldnt even imagine how much work it would take to completely change the prison systems in America to were it would be better for everyone.

I think another factor is many Americans still see inmates as the scum of the earth when they get out of jail, not as people who did time and are now square with the state. I think that if society as a whole showed more time and compassion for these men and women, things would be different. Now to take a different angle to that factor, some minorities are viewing going to prison as a status symble of ones toughness in todays society and dont view it as something bad but something to be proud of, that idea has to go, period.

Another factor is that many Americans are so entertianment driven that they have little time to proccess or think about stuff that really matters in this country. Case in point, American Idol. When that God Awful show American Idol was on, it seemed that everybody in the country was living and dying by that show. My local nightly news would cover the events and recap what happened during that stupid show. Now I thought that the news was suppose to cover news that ment something, not that crap. Another point, Paris Hilton, how much reporting was wasted on that bimbo going to jail? How many stories of substance were passed over so the country could get its daily dose of "Paris Watch"? I just saw that she did Larry King, on CNN!! WTF is up with that.

Now I know there are several other factors to changing the prison system, another is the some people just dont like change, but these are the points that get me hot under the collar when I think about them.

The more people get put in jail (or even get convicted of a felony) the less that can vote.

Your acceptance of a bum rap disturbs me. If you were seriously fucking up, the police should have had the wit to specify an appropriate charge, not just some generic catch-bag to hold you in. That's their job, and you are acquiescing to their ineptitude.

A month doesn't go by without our reading about someone who has spent 10, 17, 25 years in prison for a rape or murder, only to be exonerated by DNA evidence. The police bagged the wrong guy. They seem to do that a lot. Dare we expect any better investigative skills on lesser offenses?

The bottom line is "What constitutes a crime?" Too many of our prison and jail population are there as a result of the ill-conceived, poorly executed, and ultimately failed War On Drugs.

Does this newest survey mean we're going to stop pretending to be the land of the free? Are we done with that now? Do I no longer have to stand up and pretend an enthusiastic yay every time someone says "Land of the free, home of the brave"? Are we going to start being a little more honest with ourselves now, change our slogan to something more realistic like "Land with a 24 hour walmart in every county". cause thats something to be proud of to you know.

As for the endangering I would say that is debatable and I'm sure the statistics would back it up. I don't know the full story but I would say that jail time is a bit absurd nonetheless.

It amuses (read: disgusts) me how states are turning away from the death penalty. No, I don't want to go around killing everyone who steps foot in a jail so don't start. All I'm saying is that in our society filled with this politically correct bullshit, a prison often is nothing more than another name for a forced hotel.

Sure, some people have it worse off than when they would living outside the bars but for some, dare I say many, it provides a free room, food, cable TV in many instances, and hot showers (soap on a rope not included).

Long story short, for some people it is almost a reward to be thrown in jail and that seems a little fucked up to me.

Greybeard, haven't seen you on the boards recently. Good to see ya.

Not to criticize here, but how is this Lifestyle? And not Current Events?
I'd prefer Lifestyle not to completely morph into CE. Pretty please?

Why is jail time absurd for speeding? Why should reckless idiocy tolerated in an automobile? Just 'cause it's easy and lots of people do it, this doesn't mean people don't constantly die from it. Most people under the age of 45 die from automobile accidents, and in most accidents, speeding is a factor.

Speaking of the death penalty -- why not the death penalty for people who drive drunk? No, seriously, why not? Is it absurd?
I'm sick of the double standards we've got for automobile-related deaths in this country.

So you're booking your next vacation to Pelican's Bay?
Surely a little overcrowding, prison rape, HIV, TB, prison gangs or sadistic screws aren't going to interfere with your fun, right?

Well, its good that they put people in prison there anyway, even if it is just 23 days if you're rich.
Here we're going to have less people in prison soon.
Not because less people are being convicted of crime, mind- but because we're just releasing them straight away back into the community cos we apparently can't afford to run prisons anymore.

Funny how we can still afford to invade Iraq.

Well hmmm... alot of good bitching about it on a web site does... If you feel so strongly about this... go do something about it. Write to a congressman... hold protests... it's your rights as a citizen of the United States... But ya know if you don't want to do that either.. I guess it is easier to moan and groan.

If more people actually became more involved with what they complained about then just maybe we would live in a better world. If you are doing your part... then complain to the buddies that sit on their ass and yet agree with you.

I never understand why someone always ends up taking this position.

Can't people do both? How do you know what action people have taken? Perhaps some of us have given money, time and part of our professional lives trying to solve some of this country's more absurd fucking social problems.

Is there something wrong with bitching and debating on a website, eliciting some solid thoughts and positions on the topic, and then taking those views to our representatives or taking some other action?
Isn't that what democracy is all about?

Don't you see the irony of whining and bitching about people 'moaning and groaning' about something? (And yes, I see the irony of me bitching about bitching about bitching, but I've actually got a point besides my own petulance).

If you're so sick of hearing people complain, why read these boards in the first place? You should realize that, no matter what, internet debates always disintegrate into an ignorant, uninformed, name-calling, fallacy-fest of idiocy. But sometimes, once in a while, people actually bring up good points, that writing about thoughts helps to clarify them, and sometimes there's something to be learned in the whole mess.

I live in Oregon.
Has anyone here heard of Measure 11 in Oregon?
Basically, there is a minimum sentence for every felony a person commits (or is accused of commiting). The judge can do nothing for that person. And it stacks too, so if you say, steal a computer after breaking an enter, you could get two stacked felonies and get 14 (that is a hypothetical situation, I don't know the exact numbers. If anyone needs proof I'm willing to go digging. Probably).
The problem with that situation is if a teenager fucks up once, they can go to prison for 10 years, have their lives ruined, learn how to be a better criminal, and cost our society a lot of tax money.
yay! Our prison system is fucked!