Wrong:

In the United States, many doctors as well as the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) claim that it is best that pregnant women not drink any alcohol.

You obviously are not reading what I'm writing. Breathing is essential to life. Leaving the house is essential. Exercise is essential. Indulging in alcohol is completely useless.

I will also not mind my own damn business when I hear that people are putting their unborn children at risk.

And this is the very reason that I'm pro-choice.

EDIT: Also, keeping your pants on is a wonderful birth control method. 100% effective. Go masturbate.

Um, except that you HAVE to breathe. You don't have to drink.

Saying "the world's full of danger to unborn fetuses so there's no harm in adding a little more!" just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, you could fall down the stairs or get in a car accident or be shot in a drive-by, but none of those things are your fault. Choosing to drink or smoke kind of is. Maybe the jury's still out on how much alcohol it takes to adversely affect a growing baby, but in the meanwhile I'd still err on the side of caution and maybe steer clear of the dangers I can control, unlike breathing pollution or being chased by axe murderers, which I can't.

I hate playing circle jerk, but I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the flaws here. Makes me feel like less of a douchebag. But just slightly. This applies to everyone else in this thread that has their heads screwed on straight. *cough*

That isn't important right now.

What's important is that you, and all women, realize THE HARM A SIMPLE BRA CAN MANAGE.

Think about it.

In the United States, many doctors as well as the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) claim that it is best that pregnant women not drink any alcohol.

Indeed. And this is because many doctors officially think that it's best to err on the side of excessive caution, because patients--women patients especially--can't be trusted to act on actual fact-based information. Saying "doctors will tell you not to drink" does not mean that "one drink causes harm." Can you really not see the distinction?

As to your larger argument--women have to breathe and leave the house, but they don't "have" to drink--yeah, well, there are a lot of things people don't *have* to do that, nonetheless, they want to do and are entitled to do and shouldn't be guilt-tripped out of doing for no good reason. Tell you what. Go ahead and give up everything you don't *have* to do in order to stay alive, and then maybe you'll be in a position to lecture other people.

I can't be bothered to bang my head against this wall anymore. I'm obviously not going to change your mind and my mind is certainly not going to change, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Heh! I'd never give up my beloved pasttimes, hobbies, or junkfoods!

...Unless, of course, I got pregnant and there was a chance it could hurt the baby. Little bit different situation then, I should think. Of course, I'm now on the verge of spouting "WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and obviously, that's not going to change your mind. Women can drink when they're pregnant-- so far, no laws say they can't. All we get is a little suggestion on the back of our Smirnoff Ice which, of course, nobody follows anyway, because Hey, it can't be that bad, right? Ingesting a substance that can harm a non-pregnant person surely can't be bad for a pregnant one.

One drink may not cause harm. But I'm thinking most people willing to drink during pregnancy aren't going to have only one over the course of nine months, y'know?

Hey, bitch_phd, don't take it so bad. We're all just a bunch of "judgemental jackasses", so you should probably just "write us off as pricks."

*Savors the self-contradiction*

Well, I mean...she's right. xD

This is just getting repetitive

So basically here is my theory

bitch_phd can do whatever she wants with her body, i personally could care less, because it's not affecting me or my unborn child.

BUT! If i am with a woman, and she is carrying my unborn child, i am going to do everything i can possibly to do make her life as easy as pie, however, i kind of "expect" her to realize that she isn't just carrying her baby in her body, she is carrying "our" baby. When my ex-wife was pregnant, she smoked, she quit during the pregnancy, so i quit. She quit drinking, i quit drinking. So with me giving 100% i'd expect her to do the same.

It wasn't easy, i didn't want to do it, and i could of sat there and said "fuck you your the one that is pregnant", but i didn't. Mostly because i cared enough about her and my daughter in her tummy at the time to give up drinking and smoking for 9 months. It wasn't that big a deal.....they're materialistic and self indulgence items if you think about it.

I'd be interested in a pointer to this evidence that a single drink is playing Russian Roulette.

We can look forward to the day that a woman attempting to use a ski lift will first have to present proof of non-pregnancy

I don't think the core issue here is actually Fetal Health.

After all, look at our current dismal record on routine prenatal care, let alone for "problem" pregnancies. Also note our equally dismal record on post-natal care, for both women and children.

The issue is Dominance and Control. We do indeed have a problem with people who would make arbitrary rules for pregnant women, then punish them if they get out of line, rather than provide any useful services and support for those same women and the children that follow.

This may be a bit simple-minded, but it works for me:

Liberals want to build schools and hire teachers.

Conservatives want to build prisons and hire cops.

Unfortunately, both Liberals and Conservatives believe that their Rule Sets are the Best For Everyone.

Too many Liberals are jumping onto the Fitness Fascist bandwagon, all to the most good for the most people, of course.

lmao! Thank you so much for that link. After reading all the various views on these pregnancy rights issues I was left with serious thoughts and pondering my level of humanity cause I was at the point of coming to the conclusion that the world is full of douchebags and who the hell cares what anyone does or doesnt do with their body or children and I hope they all die anyway. But now that I know there is a battle to be fought on the deceptive and deadly bra I have my fighting spirit back!

If you do selfish things and then brag about them self-righteously, people will consider you a selfish, worthless person. It's just the way the world is.

If I came on here and wrote about sleeping with a different woman every day this past summer unprotected and not getting any STDs, im sure people would have the same issues as they do with your positions (lack of respect towards another person, ignoring the advice of experts without good reason, etc).

It seems everyone takes this argument to excess. In their examples and their ideas of how far pregnant women will go with their drinking.

Women should be allowed to make choices for themselves and for their unborn child. It is best that we not label items with information such as "should not" when facts haven't been gathered to support a "should not." Perhaps it should be reworded that any women looking to drink SHOULD consult their doctor.