Pretty much. Whenever the subject is on issues that affect women, the refrain is that men don't get it, and how could they? They aren't women. Personal experience has prestige over a lack thereof, sure, but it's not the end of the line as far as the conversation goes - except when it's a conversation about abortion or sexism in the workplace. All that rhetoric about the social construction of gender roles or the basic equality of the sexes evaporates in a lot of nodding over how this just isn't something that males can understand.

Look at your own post. You only argument against males gawking at charges of misogyny is that they aren't female. Isn't that reason enough?


PS: I'm going to have to continue this conversation tomorrow night or I'll never get to bed.

[Edited on Mar 11, 2006 by Jeff_Fries]

It's three in the morning here. Make the effort west-coast. I wanna see this.

Alright, one last one:

Ok, so because it is a generalization it isn't true, but yours is not only not a generalization, but pure truth?

What's your point? That you know how and when to respond with "That's ignorant?"

Not even remotely true. Maybe that sort of fatalism works for some people, but it's just silly to say that, as a rule, one person's pain can't be understood by another.

Ahem

By that logic, if you aren't a man, how do you know a man can't understand those hardships?

Let me try this one: while that would give me a whole new perspective on sexism, it doesn't make my judgment on these commercials invalid. Whether or not I endure sexism on a daily basis really has nothing to do with my evaluation of the ads themselves. Perhaps my knee-jerk reaction to the article, but I've thought about it carefully and there simply isn't anything there. I've seen a few of those commercials, and I think they're dumb and make absolutely no sense, but as far as I can tell the most sexist thing about them is that they're saying that men are driven by this need to drive the car quickly because they're manly and men and ARGH!!! *beats chest* But that's more aimed at men than women. And it's nothing that isn't repeated in about 90% of all commercials, so it doesn't warrant being singled out.

It would make more sense to argue that unless I am a woman, I cannot properly evaluate how sexist society is towards women, but even then the logic doesn't hold. Without the perspective of being a man in this society, you can't evaluate the difference between being male and being female.

Where the connection to South Dakota comes in, I can't even imagine. These commercials would have been in the can before that.



[Edited on Mar 11, 2006 by TedKoppel]

I hate to come off on the side of supposed misogyny, but I feel compelled to point out that by this same argument it is impossible for a woman to understand the unique pressures and prejudice that men have to deal with in modern society.

God, these commercials annoy the fuck out of me.

Misogynistic? I don't know about that. It brings out more of an eye-rolling "why must commercials portray men as such idiots?" reaction than a defensive "zomg VW and teh government will make my boyfriend love his fast car more than me and beat me and make me keep our accidental child!?!!1?!11" reaction.

But not the funny german guy right?

Yeah, that just happens 'cause you're mouthy.

I still like the one with that Trio song best.

\

A dah dah dah.

Please stop defending this statement. It does not apply in the context of this debate. The suggestion behind this statement is that people should always look at a situation subjectively first, which should never, EVER be the case.

OK, that's funny.