SuicideGirl: Selene
suicidegirl

Selene Girl Next Door in MR now! Go leave me some love ;)

I’m private
 
JUNE 26, 2012 @ 12:26 AM


OK, I did an Announcement earlier, but I wanted to go a bit more in to the issue...shocking, I know. smile

Who here thinks it would be totally cool to do an SG set in a Church? Cathedral? Mosque? And if you do, are you religious? If you are, I would actually love to know the thought behind that...

For me, I am not religious, and anyone who knows me even a little knows that I especially dislike the Catholic Church. I think they are sexist, bigoted, and see no problems with extorting and hoarding money from people by claiming they are the only path to God...I won't even get into the scandals...
That being said, I would never dream of shooting a set for SG, or doing any naked pictures at all, in a Church because I respect what that place is for the religion and the people who have faith in it. The Institution of the Church doesn't really mean crap to me, but a lot of the people do because they aren't bad people and they deserve respect like anyone else, including the respect for things most important to them. (Shit, I would even ask before taking pictures at all out of respect!)

That being said, who is familiar with something called a Smudging Ceremony or Smudge Ritual? If any of you have spent time around Native Americans or been to a Pow Wow, I am sure you have seen this and that you would also know that it's a very important and sacred thing. During the Ceremony a bundle (or "stick") of Sage is burned so that the smoke may cleanse and heal people and sometimes places. I have never heard of photography being allowed during one of these Ceremonies, though some might not mind on a personal level, I haven't seen it at group events...and, as always, when you're witnessing something that is sacred or that you are unfamiliar with, it is almost best to ask someone who does know or the person performing the ceremony.

Now my point: I recently came across a set of pictures, not on here that I know of, but on another site that does pictures similar to SG pretty often. After my initial shock and anger, I decided to let myself chill out a bit before saying something...nothing too harsh either. I let the photographer know that the theme of the set was based on a very sacred ceremony and having it be used in that way was insulting. Not too bad, right? No name calling or anything like that. wink

This was my response: "um, sorry to offend you. but what you said could apply to so many sets on another popular alt site, i'm sure you know what i mean. anyway, i'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but the title is simply a play on words and she happens to be burning some sage in the photos. and maybe we think of being naked and sharing it to BE a sacred thing. isn't it? sorry if you don't feel that way.."

And now I'm a bit pissed: So I respond that "other sets" on the "other site" (wink, wink! they meant here) don't concern me because they aren't about MY culture or rituals being exploited for profit, so that is for those people to be concerned with. (Though, depending on how insulting it was, I would probably say something if I came across anyway) And that if it were just a "play on words" then there would have only been some play on using/burning the Sage, not specifically calling it what the Ceremony that uses the sage is called, sage isn't even mentioned! I said that I hope they both thought a little more next time and also mentioned that while I DO think nudity and sex/sexuality can be a very sacred thing, it kind of loses that when it's done for money... I do not think posing nude for money is wrong (obviously! biggrin) and I don't think having sex for money is wrong (please legalize and regulate prostitution!:kisssmile, but I also don't try to pretend that feeling good about myself naked and getting some cash on the side for it is anything more grand or noble than being naked and getting paid. smile It is what it is, and that's ok. smile

What do you think? Am I overreacting here? I think I am reacting a bit better than would happen if you were to be caught taking naked pictures in a Church, but I could be wrong.
As always, I welcome the thoughts and discussion, even if you disagree with my views. smile

Have a good night/morning everyone!
xoxo, Selene

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Comments
Wolfwood1203

Wolfwood1203

El Paso, TX
December 2011

JUN 26, 2012 12:58 AM

I definitely see what you're talking about here. If someone tried to do that in a church there would be one hell of an uproar about how fucked up it is. These same people are too ignorant to see that they're doing the same thing to another culture. It's not right to do something like that to anyone's religion.

Higgipedia

Higgipedia

Stroudsburg, PA
May 2012

JUN 26, 2012 01:19 AM

It's probably too late and I'm probably too tired to answer this properly, but I'll give it a whirl anyway.

Any use of religious imagery in a nonreligious setting brings the risk of offense. The more antithetical the setting is to the religious imagery in question, the more outrage one can expect. I think less people were offended by Say Your Prayers than, say, Andre Serrano's Piss Christ. I'd say that a good part of this is because SG is a private site and the people looking at Silvia's set aren't typically those that would be offended by a pornographic co-opting of catholic imagery.

You have every right to be offended, and I wouldn't say he responded "well," but it's really a moot point. We live in a place where (in theory) free expression is protected. The photographer has every right to make a buck off of a religion and you have every right to tell people it's bullshit.

Selene

Selene

SUICIDEGIRL

Oregon, USA

JUN 26, 2012 01:32 AM

^actually, neither sit too well with me, but neither is horrendous enough for me to be get worked up on the behalf of the faithful. smile It seems like pointing out hipocracy is fine, debate is well and good, but outright disrespect bothers me,..guess I'm weird like that. wink And great point made.

Jamila

Jamila

SUICIDEGIRL

Oregon, USA

JUN 26, 2012 01:48 AM

as someone who has participated in smudging, in the traditional sense, i completely agree with you. and yes, it is like shitting on any other religion by laying boobs on it. not kosher. (sorry, got confused with my religions there...)

legman

legman

Portland, OR
February 2006

JUN 26, 2012 02:56 AM

"SG set in a Church?"

wouldn't bother me at all.

I don't respect culture or religion- but I can respect PEOPLE. smile

yobdren

yobdren

USA
February 2010

JUN 26, 2012 04:31 AM

if it were a mosque i'd be offended. dress code in a mosque is a big deal to muslims.

i don't think taking money for posing nude has any ethical implications (besides money and ethics not existing in the same reality). its still art. i imagine you work hard to keep yourself in good shape... most people don't. so there you go, you're doing work (the working out and the actual modelling) and you're getting paid for the results of said work... capitalism at its finest.

also, opinionated women are sexy!

StCyr

StCyr

Louisville, KY
March 2007

JUN 26, 2012 05:36 AM

I don't think you're overreacting at all. Your beliefs and tenets are important to you, and if you're offended by someone co-opting the same in a manner you find disrespectful, you have every right to voice your opinion.
This is what makes religious, racial, ethnic and cultural issues so . . . I don't want to say dangerous . . . charged maybe (?) People have an emotional investment in these things, and, in general, one should always try to be respectful of others beliefs there, even if one disagrees.
However, art may have a different role. Great art, while not having to be confrontational or controversial, should be evocative.
Of course, what's "art" or not varies upon the viewer.
Where one my find evocative art
another may find blasphemy.
I personally think art is worth the risk.

CoyoteMike

CoyoteMike

Iowa City, IA
May 2006

JUN 26, 2012 06:30 AM

Why wouldn't someone respect other people's culture? If they don't like it, or don't agree with it, or aren't a member of it, then simply don't participate in it.

McKenzie

McKenzie

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

JUN 26, 2012 08:57 AM

Ive fantazied about doing a set in church, I was born a catholic, but I dont follow it, nor do I go to church everyday! I really want to shoot a set in confession! it turns myself on when I think about it! eeekskull

lonesomewolf

lonesomewolf

Beverly Hills, CA
December 2009

JUN 26, 2012 09:43 AM

It would be awesome, amazing, stunning, sexy and fun. Churches are beautiful buildings and only that!

lonesomewolf

lonesomewolf

Beverly Hills, CA
December 2009

JUN 26, 2012 09:44 AM

Sex in a church is fun too wink BUT you should definitely do a set there. It would be great!

NerdMachine

NerdMachine

USA
May 2008

JUN 26, 2012 09:45 AM

I understand why this might offend you, but I also come from the point of view that if something like this offends you, just don't look at it.

Also, I think a set done in a church would be cool only because I like the combination of nude girls with old architecture.

Harajuku

Harajuku

SUICIDEGIRL

Canada

JUN 26, 2012 11:08 AM

Cultural appropriation is never okay, especially when in comes in the format of "privileged white person co-opting something from a culture they have already destroyed and turned into a parody of itself". (ie: bitches wearing headdresses.)

There's being offended by something silly that doesn't really harm anyone, and then there's being offended by something with centuries of oppression and spiritual trivialization at the hands of the larger Euro-migrant population, which dominates pretty much every aspect of western culture as is.

Persephone

Persephone

SUICIDEGIRL

Western Sahara

JUN 26, 2012 02:04 PM

I don't see all nudity as sexual. I also see many forms of art that can be offensive, absurd or just something that the artist finds visually appealing even if they aren't trying to make a statement. If I thought that QuinceaƱera dresses were beautiful and and wanted to shoot photos and make a piece of art with it, I would.

You are free to take down whatever you want, but that photo is on SG, many people have seen it. I don't see a reason for censoring a photo on the site on which it was published.

McKenzie

McKenzie

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

JUN 26, 2012 02:30 PM

ya I hear ya lady, I most likely wouldnt do a set. because its not possible. its just a fantasy photoshoot. Ive done stuff with bibles but even if there is a Hell, Im sure Id end up there in people eyes if they saw my set. lol!

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