At 4 in the morning, there should only be bakers, crooks, cops, and drunks out on the street. The dude was an idiot to try talking to someone at that hour that was a total stranger.

I see where you're coming from.

I hope I can chime in with the idea that (my own opinion) there is a time and place for everything. And I do believe that any man, if he stopped and thought about anything but himself, would be able to key into whether or not the time was right to approach a woman. I feel that self-centeredness is a huge issue with society right now. On both sexes. I don't want to rant too much, but respect and consideration of others would fix issues like elevatorgate. Thanks. B

This whole war has been bizarre and disheartening. Lead to good conversations in my household though.

It's really sad to see, when you dig down, how little progress has actually been made in enlightening people's attitudes.

I have been getting pretty into this feminist stuff the past few months, although I have always had leanings, and my boyfriend just doesn't get it. His mother lied, a lot, about important things and his dad has always been kind of a player who doesn't respect women too much anyway so I have that working against me too.My venturing into this stuff,especially the subject of rape and sexual assault, has been kind of rough on us. When we talk about the stuff I have been a victim of, he lays no blame on me but he still thinks it is my responsibilty from here on out to not put myself in any situation where something could happen (ie not drink when I go out to bars without him) it seems to make no difference to him that my most significant instance occured in my home when other people were there.

It just really sucks and I want to shake him.

I've always wondered why the hell men even bother wasting their time by approaching women on the street. Do they expect to start a relationship that way? Has it worked for them, or anyone they know, in the past? I've never heard a couple say, "Oh, we met one day on the street." I think men hitting on me on the street is the most obnoxious thing, and I've done things like not even taking off my headphones to respond to it, but just kept walking.

In fact, I have a story. Once, I was at a bus stop in center city Philly. An African American man starts hitting on me, and I tell him I'm not interested. He walks away mumbling, "Racist." As if a Caucasian man hitting on me would have had a chance! Yeah right.

will there ever be a time when i won't feel ashamed of my gender?

I hope you get to come spend some time here sweetie. I miss you and would love to see you.

And now my 2 cents...Men do not, by and large, understand the fear that women women have by something as simple as being alone in an elevator later at night with a guy there. Pick any guy. I can intellectually understand the fear, sympathize, and be very sensitive to the issue when I face this (in the elevator, I would stand as far away as possible without seeming obnoxious, trying to allow this woman to have some small comfort). Anyway, I can intellectually understand this, but I cannot actually feel this fear. When I go out at night, anywhere, I'm always very cautious of my surroundings, where people are what they are doing and if they are watching me. Again, I can imagine multiplying that by 10 or 100 times, but I cannot experience that actual fear. If men, on the whole, can actually feel this way, this lack of security, this fear of simply walking out of work and to your car, then there would be a whole lot of changes in society. If that guy who whistles at you from his car was exposed to the same level of constant fear, he'd problaby have his doors looked and windows rolled up tight all the time.

Anyway, love, I'm in with you on this. it is frustrating, and if someone doesn't want to be bothered, then they should be able to say leave me alone, and be left alone.

Love , hugs and kisses as always. We miss you!

I try to apply the golden rule. I grant you that if a hot woman started hitting on me in the middle of the street that this would be entirely welcome, but in general I'd rather people not randomly approach me and try to talk to me, particularly when I am clearly doing something else - reading, for example. When I compound that with the fact that I am not wildly attractive myself and that strange men approaching women at random are automatically somewhat suspect, I tend to opt for the "keep to myself" option.

I do feel the social expectation that the man make the first move combines with this policy to close down most possibilities of actually getting a girlfriend, but at least there are venues where I can be reasonably assured people are interested in finding a partner, however unsuccessful they've been for me. (OkCupid, for example.)

I've not been on SG much lately and I missed reading your journal.
This post reminded me of a couple things, one being a guy I used to work with at the library in undergrad who said he tries to be really aware of things like this. For example, if he's walking down the street at night and a woman is on the other side walking, he stays on his side cause he knows crossing over by her can make a girl a bit nervous. I though that was sweet of him. It also reminds me of a women's self defense class I took once. The only man involved in it was a campus cop who I'm sure was a really nice guy with the best intentions, but was totally clueless to how ignorant he sounded sometimes. He would say things like "Woman might want a lamp next to the bed and think it's just some pretty little thing to have in the room, but that cord is a weapon an attacker can use on you!" I got his point, but seriously? -_-

You expressed really perfectly what I've been trying to pinpoint about my feelings on this situation.