Last month Scott Snyder ceased being an immensely talented short story writer and teacher with degrees from Brown and Columbia and instead became one of comic’s hottest writers and a new horror-fantasy icon. American Vampire #1 created by Snyder and illustrated by Rafael Albuquerque has received a lot... more

Last month Scott Snyder ceased being an immensely talented short story writer and teacher with degrees from Brown and Columbia and instead became one of comic’s hottest writers and a new horror-fantasy icon. American Vampire #1 created by Snyder and illustrated by Rafael Albuquerque has received a lot more press than the typical comic series, largely because of Snyder’s friend and mentor who is writing the backup story in the first five issues, Stephen King.

Snyder’s first book, the short story collection "Voodoo Heart" was an amazing batch of stories, tales about chasing blimps across the nation, guarding Niagara Falls from would-be suicides, trust fund runaways and a pilot who crashes into a wedding and runs off with the bride. The stories were fantastic and unlikely, outlandish and improbable but never impossible. Instead, quiet tales of odd characters dealing with strange circumstances that were funny, bizarre and touching. His short story “The Thirteenth Egg” was one of the best parts of the superhero anthology “Who Will Save Us Now?” and was very much the kind of fantastic horror story that comics do so well.

Snyder is also writing the just-released “Iron Man: Noir” miniseries, a pulp take on Tony Stark set in the 1930’s. The second issue of “American Vampire” goes on sale Wednesday April 21 in which the new species, the “american vampire” of the title makes its debut, and we chatted with Snyder about the series, the evolution of monsters and his long-delayed first novel.


SCOTT SNYDER: It’s sound so creepy to be like, I love this site, but I really do.

ALEX DUEBEN: Well awesome. I’m a big fan of yours. I read your book Voodoo Heart a while back and really loved it and American Vampire is really great.

SS: Thanks. We worked really hard on that. It’s definitely been like, I feel like the luckiest guy on Long Island right now. It’s been a great ride so far.

AD: In other interviews, you’ve talked about how the idea behind the series was vampires evolving. How did you come up with this concept and what are they changing into exactly?

SS: It was several years ago when, I mean there’s always a vampire glut, but there was another glut of vampire works out there. I think it was when there a sequel to Blade and Underworld. It just seemed like all of the vampires were too cool to give you the time of day, looking like they were on their way to some neo-gothic club that happens to exists in the sewer with a chandelier overhead. The leather trenchcoats and sunglasses. That aesthetic was so boring by that point. It made me nostalgic for vampires that I grew up on. My favorite vampire movies and books are things like Salem’s Lot and Lost Boys and Near Dark and the works where vampires are not so much scary because they’re exotic and romanticized but scary because they’re your loved ones come back to kill you from the dead. They’re not scary because they’re so foreign and beautiful and so on. What’s scary about Salem’s Lot to me is that penultimate scene of Danny Glick, that little boy, scratching at his brother’s window to be let in in the middle of the night. What’s scary about Lost Boys is Michael changing into a vampire in front of his brother and his brother’s worried that his own brother is going is going to kill him. Similarly in Near Dark, the girl you fall for, who seems to be your dream girl, turns out to be a serial killing vampire.

I was in a model shops getting a Doctor Who model for a friend of mine and they had a series of busts. One of them was a zombie Confederate soldier. I had been thinking about vampires and it occurred to me, why not have a vampire that walks the kinds of landscapes you enjoy writing about? Why not make a new kind of vampire that’s indigenous to this place? From there it just took off. If I’m going to make a new kind of vampire, what’s he going to be and when’s he going to appear. Wouldn’t that mean then, as a logical extension, that there had been other species before that had branched out as well. I thought about doing it as a book for a while. I worked on it as a screenplay with my best friend for a bit. When I started working in comics, I was biding my time, thinking this was the perfect format for it.

AD: Both stories, Pearl, which is by you and Skinner Sweet, which is King’s, are set in the West. Is that the specific setting for the book?

SS: It’s not. The cycle we’re working on next also takes place in the West, but the one that I’m plotting now after that takes place on the East coast. There’s one we’re thinking about that’s going to take place in Middle America. There’s an overseas one we have in mind. The west just seemed like both a mythological place and [a place] of optimism and endless sunshine. That seemed like such an inhospitable place to the vampires we’ve seen. The perfect place to begin another species that can walk in the sun and has a kind of more muscular character to it than what came before. Plus there are certain desert qualities that really characterize the American vampire.

Our editor, Mark Doyle, who’s been amazing, we went back and forth thinking maybe we should include some teaser where it shows what the American vampire looks like. I’m really excited for people to see issue #2 where the actual new species makes it’s first appearance. It’s not some incredibly radical different thing where it doesn’t look like a vampire, but there are some notable differences. It has much more desert qualities to it. Rattlesnake fangs and an unhinging jaw and so on. We’re really trying to have it be something where we make something that’s new, not just as a gimmick, but something that’s new that’s in some way allows us to really get into inter-species relations and conflict later on in the series. Each vampire species has its own set of weaknesses and strengths and that means that the European vampires have sort of are eager to find some way to kill off this new bloodline.

AD: Why did you decide to open the book with Pearl and her story?

SS: That was an editorial decision. Originally I pitched the series as starting with Skinner in the West and Vertigo essentially rejected the pitch on the idea that if it was going to start in the West, it would be too narrow of a focus and too literal. In the pitch I had included other ideas for where it was going to go. The second cycle was going to be the 1920s it was going to be Pearl so I wrote that up as a lot more elaborate pitch for them saying, I agreed with what they said and what if we started here. They immediately jumped at that. We were actually going to save Skinner’s story for later in the series.

They knew that I knew Stephen King and could I contact him and anyone else I knew to just give a line of press for when the announcement was made. I had given him the pitch to see if he could make any suggestions and he’d been really helpful about giving me a couple tips. He was really excited for me. He said you know I really love that character Skinner and when you get to him I’ll write an issue if you want. I was like, if I tell them you’re going to write an issue or two they’re going to jump at that. I don’t want it to be something you do because you feel like it’s some favor or something and he was really adamant. He liked the character and thought it would be fun.

I went back to Vertigo and told them. It was a Friday afternoon when the office is closed and I got this Monday morning call, basically, did you say Stephen King said he would write an issue? Immediately it became, how do we do that. Steve wrote him with such exuberance and made up so many interesting things about the character. The character was developed and designed and had a history, but some of the nuances and his long standing grudges Steve elaborated on and made so much richer. He brought in this whole theme about legend versus fact and history versus folklore. Issue one was the closet thing to the outline that I had set up for him. He really takes off in issue two. You start to see the epic scope of what he wants to do.

AD: When you originally proposed this, were you thinking of having a rotating series of artists like in Brian Wood’s series Northlanders?

SS: That’s exactly what the proposed format was actually. Rafael [Albuquerque] was just the first person that auditioned for the series. Editor Will Dennis, who’s been terrific, he does Northlanders and does Scalped and he suggested Rafael. Rafael sent some sketches based on my descriptions of the characters and it was just immediate, this guy understands who they are. We actually wound up using his sketches in a couple of the promos. These are sketches before he ever saw the script.

He’s in Brazil and I contacted him on instant messenger and I talk to him literally every day. We’ve become really close friends. It was his idea to the two cycles in two different looks, one in washes to give Steve’s an antiquated feel and do the Pearl one in these real hard inks to give it an art deco 20s look. Rafael will always be our artist on the big forward moving cycles. In between what we’re going to try and do is explore a little bit of the history between different vampire species and human-vampire relations. Explore why the species we’re all so familiar with from folklore and Dracula has become the dominant species and where are all the other ones are. I just feel so lucky to get to work with him.

AD: Is the plan to jump around in time with these characters and some new ones? Do you have an endgame in mind for the series?

SS: I do have an endgame, but it’s far far in the future. I know in mind how I want the series to end, but we have so many ideas to go forward and backward and sideways with it. We’re hoping to get a good long run like some of my favorite Vertigo series. In terms of the format, we are going to explore different decades and we’ll return to different decades as well to show different perspectives on things. We are absolutely going to pick up on the characters decade to decade. It’s Skinner’s blood that we’re following, essentially. He’ll pop up in fun and surprising ways, sometimes featured centrally as an antagonist or protagonist and other times he’ll make cameos. Pearl the same. I can promise that we’re following both the bloodline and the characters that are established in this cycle so they won’t disappear after this at all.

AD: Has working at Vertigo and Marvel come about because of the short story “The Thirteenth Egg” that you wrote for the superhero anthology, Who Can Save Us Now?

SS: In terms of working in comics, all of it did. I think all the time, what if I hadn’t written that story? It’s crazy. It caught the eye of Mark [Doyle] and my editor at Marvel, Jeanine [Schaefer]. The chance to pitch for the Marvel Timely series two years ago. Then I got Iron Man: Noir, which they’re waiting to release so it coincides with the movie, and Nation X. That led to a chance to pitch a creator owned thing to Vertigo.

There’s nowhere I’d be more thrilled to be than Vertigo. I get intimidated all the time by the bar that’s set. It won’t be for lack of trying if it sucks. There’s no phoning it in. I understand how fortunate I am to be able to do this at Vertigo and to be able to have my own series as a relatively green writer. And I want to know what people think. People think I’m just saying that, but I really do want to know. Comics fans are so astute and so generous and so vicious. I want to know. I want it to be a series that people feel a part of and respond to. I’ve been on that side as a fanboy for a long time so I want people to feel like they have access to the story as well.

AD: Like I said at the beginning, I really loved your first book Voodoo Heart and I know you’re working on a novel, but I keep seeing the release date change. I don’t know how much you want to say about it or when we can expect it.

SS: I’m really not going to finish my next draft of it until at least the summer. I’m hoping 2011, but it’s a ways away. It’s actually about somebody who works in comics. It’s about a guy who’s struggling with his son who’s in an accident and he is caught in this place, psychologically, where he’s having a lot of trouble reconciling the limitations of medical science and the more fantastic possibilities that he writes about everyday. It’s called The Goodbye Suit. I want to let it sit until the summer and look it over and really rewrite it and tinker with it and then hopefully have it done before the end of the year. I love it to death and it’s very personal. I’ll definitely do it but I’m just having a lot of fun with comics right now and I like to step away from it for a while so I can be more objective when I look at it again.

My plan is to get a few cycles of Vampire done. I like to finish the whole cycle at once, so I write all the issues of a cycle together. I’m finishing cycle two and I’m going to finish cycle three hopefully and really get into four by the summer and be a good full year ahead and then take a few months over the summer to really work on the novel more and come back to Vampire in the fall. That’s the hope, that I can buy some some months to work on it without having to do both, but we’ll see.

AD: A lot of the interviews have been pretty overwhelmed by talking about Stephen King, and that’s understandable, but the heart of the comic and what makes it so awesome seems to get obscured a lot of the time.

SS: If you wanted to know what it’s like to work with Stephen King, he’s the most generous guy in the world. I’ve been wracking my brain, why is he writing so much. Is he doing this as a favor to me because we’re friendly. I loved it but I don’t want to be burdening him with this, doing it because its an obligation. What you realize quickly from talking to him, when you see the intensity of his scripts, is that he acts like a hungry exuberant young writer when he likes a story. The writing is just so fun. It’s inspiring to watch because he has no reason to be that enthusiastic about it from a pragmatic standpoint. He doesn’t need to go to the mat for five issues of this thing. He does it that way because he’s a story guy, and when he gets into something he likes he lives there entirely. For a young writer, someone like me, it was incredibly inspiring to watch. To see somebody who’s so established, it doesn’t get more established, act like somebody who’s right out of the gate and getting their first job. That was great.

He’s also the most gracious guy in the world. I keep thanking him and he’s like, I should be thanking you, this is so much fun. I’m like no no no. I’m thanking you. Mark and I got him a fun gift. We got him an Elvis Day of the Dead bust. He and I are both big Elvis fans. The funny thing is, yesterday I came home from dropping my son off and I had this big package. I opened it up and it’s this big bottle of Dom Perignon from Steve. I’ve never drank Dom Perignon. “Thanks for the wild ride. Congrats. TCB. Steve.” TCB is Elvis’ personal logo which we both use. That’s Steve King. That’s who he is and I just can’t say enough good things about him as a writer, as a person, as a mentor, as a genius storyteller. I can’t throw enough love his way.

John Lydon (a.k.a. Johnny Rotten) says he doesn't like tattoos, but try not to hold that against him. If I'd been calling in on behalf of a golf magazine, he'd probably tell me how much he's offended the sport. Not because he's disagreeable -- he really isn't -- but because... more

John Lydon (a.k.a. Johnny Rotten) says he doesn't like tattoos, but try not to hold that against him. If I'd been calling in on behalf of a golf magazine, he'd probably tell me how much he's offended the sport. Not because he's disagreeable -- he really isn't -- but because first and foremost, above all else, the OG punk rocker is a provocateur and contrarian.

The Sex Pistols frontman is back on the scene after reviving his post-punk avant-garde music project Public Image Limited (a.k.a. PiL). The band, which was formed in 1978 in the wake of The Pistols dramatic demise, featured a revolving cast of players (including SG's Martin Atkins), with Lydon being the driving force and only constant.

Returning to the stage after a 17-year hiatus, PiL played a series of critically acclaimed shows in the UK in the latter part of 2009. With the music industry in a state of flux, and with very little cash flowing to support any artistic endeavors, Lydon financed the reunion in a true-to-form, eyebrow-raising fashion. The singer who had once called for "Anarchy in the UK" become a spectacularly unlikely spokesman for a brand of British butter called Country Life, appearing in a humorous commercial which sent sales of the saturated fat soaring.

Lydon, who lives in California, is now set to bring the organized chaos that is PiL stateside. The band will be playing Club Nokia in Downtown LA on April 13 prior to a highly anticipated opening-night performance at Coachella and a series of dates across the US.

SuicideGirls called Lydon up at his Los Angeles beachside home to talk a little bollocks about life, butter, music, politics, PiL, the psychology of punk - and his apparent dislike of body ink.

John Lydon: Who's this?

Nicole Powers: It's Nicole Powers with SuicideGirls.

JL: Is that a magazine?

NP: It's a website.

JL: It's a most unfriendly title.

NP: Well it actually doesn't refer to people behaving like lemmings and jumping off cliffs.

JL: I hope not. [laughs] Because I couldn't be condoning that.

NP: It's actually a reference to a Chuck Palahniuk phrase that he used to describe a subculture of people who chose to commit social suicide by having tattoos and piercings.

JL: Oh that's quite novel.

NP: It's a very punk rock concept, since it's about people choosing to mark their body permanently, thereby permanently committing social suicide with regards to the mainstream.

JL: Oh tattoos.

NP: You don't like them?

JL: No.

NP: Oh dear! What's your objection?

JL: I think that they're ugly. [laughs]

NP: Oh no! You're not supposed to say that! Everyone assumes that tattoos are punk rock by default.

JL: Certainly not! [laughs] Not to my estimation at all. They're the very last thing I would want to be doing, to put a moniker on my body that I might not quite approve of in a few years time. You know, "Love ya Sharron," and then you're stuck with it. What I find with tattoos though is the lack of originality, particularly a punk type concept of it. It's what people think will make them punk, when punk really is a mentality.

NP: I can appreciate that. I mean I'm aware that you've done things like the Country Life butter commercial, and the UK I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here reality TV series, and the nature shows, which might seem cheesy. But then for you, that's the most punk rock thing you can do, because that's precisely the opposite of what society expects you to do.

JL: Well yeah, and it doesn't happen deliberately, it's just opportunity knocks -- and I get knocked for it.

NP: Well there's no knocking from this direction.

JL: Oh, thank you! But you know, the butter campaign, which was to promote a British product, I thought it was a very brave thing on my behalf. The money that I earned from that has now gone completely -- lock stock and barrel -- into reforming PiL.

NP: I actually want to congratulate Country Life Butter, because it was a risk on their part.

JL: It was. It was seriously, seriously an interesting project, from start to finish. Because it was an insane prospect originally, and definitely tweaked my interest.

NP: It's butter with balls, because they were putting the reputation of their brand in your hands.

JL: Yeah, they took a gamble and I treated them with the utmost respect because of that...They were very, very gracious with me. They presented something like a script, and I told them I would adlib and improvise. They went with that, and it paid off.

NP: I read one of your interviews where you talked about how Country Life Butter has been more supportive of your music than any record label.

JL: Yes. They've treated me with more respect than any record label I've ever worked with, and that's a very strange thing to be saying. You would presume that they're corporate and therefore the enemy. So we should be very careful who we attach false rumors and labels to, as indeed many have been attached to me over the years erroneously...I'm very pleased that I made butter acceptable again socially.

NP: You increased sales by 85% I understand.

JL: That's an astounding figure. Really, really kind of overwhelming. Good, golly, gosh! And my record company said they can't sell a record.

NP: What I found interesting reading the press building up to this tour is that you're finally getting the respect for what you did with PiL 14 or 15 years too late.

JL: Yes.

NP: I guess in the scheme of things it's good, because there's many artists throughout history that didn't get any respect until after they died. But it might have been nice for people to give you some respect for PiL a little sooner.

JL: Well it might not also. Because I'm the kind of person, I do have inner resolve and inner strengths, and so I'm able to -- and I love to quote Shakespeare when it suits me -- I smile in the face of adversity. In many ways the struggle is as enjoyable as the achievement. You can't keep a good dog down and all that -- maybe I should have a dog tattoo. [laughs]

NP: You worry about getting a tattoo that you'll later regret, but part of having tattoos is that you live life with no regrets. That's a very important part of the ethos.

JL: Yes. I gather that. It's certainly a way of making yourself alienated, unless everybody on planet earth has a tattoo. Because it divides doesn't it? And the powers that be just don't seem to want to employ people with tattoos.

I'll tell you, my 15-year old nephew, he's just put a tattoo on his neck and of course it's creating all kinds of uproar in the family. But it's knowing where that's going to take him, because the school have thrown him out.

Also, and I don't mean to be sounding nasty here, but Steve Jones, a fellow Sex Pistol, I hate his tattoos. They all seem to be the mass consumption ones, you know. I don't see anything that strikes me as impressively different. There's a poisoning aspect in there because of that. But I do love art, and a jolly decent drawing or painting transferred to a human body can be impressive.

One tattoo that impressed me, it was years ago, was a jigsaw thing, from head to toe, a complete jigsaw pattern. It was most excellent. I thought that was a clever idea. It was a jigsaw puzzle with a few pieces missing here and there. I thought that was really great. Things like that, that spark an immediate interest. But, my god, I live on the beach here, and the amount of second hand work is appalling. So unfortunately for you and your website, I'm focusing on all the negatives at the moment. But then I've had a career where I've suffered all the negative aspects -- and I think wrongly. I think I've done nothing but good for music. I've been consistent at it too. I think I've offered purposefully and honestly enough so many new genres into music, and to see them imitated now and be part of the casual mindset of modern music, it's intriguing that my name is missing from the list of thank yous.

NP: They do say imitation is the best form of flattery.

JL: No. I've dealt with that expression and I've found it to be not true. It's actually a cheeky way of saying, "Thanks! Look what I've stolen from ya."

NP: I can see that. Being paid in return for the inspiration would be the best form of flattery.

JL: It would kind of help. Or at least [to be] given a nod and wink in the correct way and direction. Because I do believe in respecting my fellow human beings and I don't like to see anyone, including myself, disrespected. I see no reason for it. All my life what I've done is fight for the individual, and fight for groups that are downtrodden, be it race, creed or color, or whatever economic or social reason. To be still treated as some kind of foul-mouthed job is a bit upsetting and wrong.

NP: You are very erudite. I know that you're a big bookworm too.

JL: Yes. Love books. One of the greatest tragedies of me at the moment is that my eyesight is beginning to wane. That might be from sheer over-reading, and that's really painful because the concept of losing my eyesight is really challenging to me. It's like I've run it in my mind, what couldn't I afford to lose, my ears or my eyes? Oddly enough, being somewhat of a musician, I concluded my eyes. Because nature, I couldn't bear to not be observing it. I find that much more musical than anything I've ever done.

NP: You've done some nature TV programs haven't you? What inspired you to do the nature stuff.

JL: Because I love life, all kinds. I don't know what it is that makes a thing live but I'm deeply intrigued by that, whether it be an ant, a mollusk or an elephant, or indeed my fellow human beings. I realize, as humans, we are top of the agenda because we have that most magnificent gift of all -- language.

NP: Some scientists are starting to argue that there's levels of intelligence and communication amongst animals that mean certain species should actually be given human-like rights.

JL: Yes. That's a fascinating subject, particularly the way whales can communicate. I love sharks and particularly great whites. When I was doing that program on them, I noticed that they do have a form of communication with each other. They definitely have a hierarchy, and a grouping. They travel in packs and that's surely not the wild, free-roaming, savage killers we've been led to misbelieve.

NP: So if animals are so communicative, it's not really language that sets us apart from the animal world. Really the only thing is art.

JL: Well, I don't know, I've seen chimpanzees paint.

NP: ...And elephants.

JL: And elephants, I've cottoned on to that. I'm not sure of the artistic value. I'd have to see more elephants' work.

NP: And there's some debate about whether they're just following cues from their trainers, and repeating actions, rather than consciously deciding to paint a flower for example.

JL: Yes, there's every possibility of that. Do you know that killer whale that killed the instructor recently? You can't tame the beast in them and at some point these poor animals are going to become incredibly frustrated at the prison we've wrapped them in. This is why I'm very anti zoos. That's what that is, that act of aggression is, "I want out."

NP: But then the flip side of that is that there are zoos that are very responsible with things like breeding programs.

JL: But what are they breeding? They're breeding animals that know nothing but captivity. And to be quite frank there's some wonderful nature programs that show you these creatures in their natural environments -- be happy with that. That's not the same as a wolf in a box in the corner of Whipsnade Zoo is it?

In fact I had problems when I was visiting the gorilla terrain with that too. That American money was beginning to creep in and there was future prospects of them building five star hotels for American tourists to go on gorilla safaris. Well if you start doing that you're absolutely murdering what these lovely wonderful beasts are all truly about...I think humans do not have the right to turn wild beasts into tourist attractions. It really, really upsets me. The game reserves in Africa upset me. They're all rounded up and back in their cages for the evening and let out in the morning.

NP: Well it all goes back to this idea of extending what we know as human rights to animals, and figuring out how far down the food chain you go.

JL: All the way. It's an interesting discussion. It isn't openly debated quite yet, but I'd like to see it done so. I think it could only be to the advancement of all causes.

NP: When you treat animals without humanity, you're compromising your own.

JL: Yes. I can't stand to see those chicken farms and the slaughterhouse things. But I do understand that we have two different sets of teeth in our mouths and as a species I don't suppose we would ever have advanced this far by lettuce leaves alone.

NP: Are you a vegetarian?

JL: No. I tend to eat what's available according to the environment I'm in. Thirty years of touring has taught me that. Otherwise I'd be looking for grass and bean sprouts in Milwaukee.

I tell you what the shock for me is, living in America, how cheep chicken is. Don't be raising the price on cigarettes, because that's a choice issue there. But with certain food things, if we treated animals with a bit more respect and cost, I think the slaughter and cruelty would go down as the price went up. So that may be a solution there other than Chrissie Hynde's "Meat is Murder" brigade, which takes it to too far of an extreme all at once.

NP: Right. A chicken's life should be worth more than five bucks.

JL: Yeah. Absolutely.

NP: I'm not a vegetarian either, but I want the chicken I eat to have led a happy and fulfilled life before it dies.

JL: Otherwise what are you eating but misery? Well that's going to translate into your system eventually.

NP: And knowing I didn't give a shit about that chicken's life is going to eat into my soul.

JL: Yes, I believe that.

NP: So I'm all about eating happy and fulfilled animals.

JL: Yeah, but maybe not always. I mean there are huge amounts of my time when I don't drink alcohol, but there are other times when I do, and it's the same with meat. But I don't believe running around assaulting women in fur coats is going to solve anything.

NP: And there is the argument that plants have feelings too..

JL: Ah, Prince Charles led this charge didn't he. He played Pink Floyd to his cabbages. I'm not sure where that's left him with regards to standing and reason with the world but it's a novelty. I mean he's a Buddhist, and that's where his leaning would naturally take him. It's novel. It might actually be true. He might actually be doing a cabbage a favor. You take it too far though and it would leave us without any food source whatsoever, and that's stone cold bonkers. I mean, I don't want the whole world to end up like emaciated models.

NP: So you like meat on your women?

JL: I like human beings to look human, not like concentration camp victims.

NP: That's what SuicideGirls is all about, redefining beauty to take it away from the emaciated model stereotype.

JL: Well you have to. It's preposterous. There's no one out there really capable of being that thin in the general public so who are you making and selling this dress to? Basically a bag of bones. Very unattractive. And I don't want my world full of everyone in the same size. Good heavens. I get problems with that myself, you see I'm big boned -- there's a polite way of putting it.

NP: But you always seem pretty svelte on stage.

JL: Well I have to be fit to do what I do, but I don't exercise. There's not really what you would call a muscle on me.

NP: So how do you stay fit if you don't exercise?

JL: Stress.

NP: Ahh. So what's been stressing you out recently?

JL: Trying to keep this tour together. Definitely handling the finances of it, and hoping it will be a success. I'm hoping it will raise some level of interest in what's gone wrong with the music industry, and what's still right with me. I would expect that to be of some interest to audiences both young and old.

NP: Absolutely. Music, generally, is so bland today.

JL: The latest thing I find so offensive is Sting trying to go Irish. He's done a jazz album, now he's trying to be like a Gaelic folk artist. It's just upsetting that he's not creating new genres from his own heart and soul. It's all set formats already laid out on a table for him. In he comes and fine dines, and out he waltzes onto the next menu. It's a little lazy.

NP: What do you think of Lady Gaga?

JL: I think she hilariously is very, very interesting. We know what she's up to, we know what she's doing, it's that she does it very, very well. There's a great sense of fun and self-mockery in it, which is very endearing.

NP: There's an intelligence behind it.

JL: Yeah, there is. And they are actually great pop songs. I think "Paparazzi" is stunning, amazing, such a clever way to deal with the subject.

NP: Who else do you find interesting right now?

JL: Off the top of my head nothing is coming to mind.

NP: It's a bland world out there.

JL: It is.

NP: I understand on the PiL tour you're going to be culling songs from your entire discography, some solo stuff, some Pistols stuff.

JL: Probably not The Pistols end of it, because I really want to focus on PiL and the achievements therein. If I started putting in Pistols material indeed I'd be there all night long. We play on average two and a half hours per night, although in America there's some license restrictions on that, particularly [at] Coachella. They originally offered us only one hour, but they've sensibly given us an hour and a half. But that's still not long enough for a PiL performance.

NP: Have you been out to Coachella before?

JL: Yes. It's baking bloody hot and freezing cold at night. The waiting and the hanging around in that baking heat is very draining. The waiting before any gig is so amazingly stressful.

NP: But compared to Glastonbury, Coachella is the five star festival experience.

JL: Listen, I go back 45 years and I remember the original festivals when I was 12 and 15. I'd go off to them on my own. I'd bunk up on the train. The atmosphere was amazing. It could be raining all weekend and it was just one big horrible mud bath, [but] it just always seemed better. These festivals these days seem too orchestrated. The idea of having to use a credit card to get into the toilet is insane. Everything is about purchase isn't it? You end up feeling like you're just visiting some weird and wacky shopping mall. The music, in that you're offered an infinite variety of music, that's always intriguing, but the modern aspect of these things is they have three or four stages operating at the same time. To see one band you're going to miss a couple of others. I wish it was just one stage. I don't like that dissipation of energy. It creates the cattle herding environment of people having to shift from one field to another. That's negative. It negates the open-mindedness that festivals are supposedly originally all about.

NP: Are there any other bands at Coachella you're looking forward to seeing?

JL: I'm really pleased that Jay-Z is on at the same time. No dis of his music, some of those records are great, absolutely. But live, it comes across to me like a Las Vegas production. And I say this out of experience because a few years back at a Pistols gig in Poland, Jay-Z was on the bill there and I got to catch some of that show. I just thought you could put Liberace in the middle of that and it wouldn't be much different. I thought it was rather poor because it was just him going "U-huh, huh, huh" in between all this dancing and flashing lights and it became irritating. It wasn't a sharing experience. He wasn't sharing anything. It was just showing off. I can't bear acts that go on and tell you how great they are. It's a negative for me. PiL is all about open up your heart and here we go.

NP: When you're not playing music and reading books, what do you do?

JL: I'm yelling at the news.

NP: I shout at the TV too.

JL: I can't help it. I find Faux News very entertaining. It's wonderful. I'm never going to be disappointed with the absurdities I hear nightly and daily...In fact the entire network is to me deeply hilarious that it's run under the guise of news. How the word news can be so misinterpreted.

Saying that, I love Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Coupled together, for anyone who has children, it's surely the best hour of family viewing. Children really and truly do understand and grasp the bigger issues.

NP: Talking of children, you're the stepfather of Ari Up from The Slits. They reformed recently too.

JL: Well they're bumming about yeah. That's a band that's not reformed, they're not like that. When they get the money together they go out and play, it's as simple as that. There are times when all of us have to be very, very careful on the purse-strings, because we do live almost momentarily, from moment to moment. When the money's there you can do things. There's no one there giving us handouts for this.

NP: Right. It's often hard for people to understand how you can be in a big name band and still live a very hand to mouth existence.

JL: Well my band has an enormous name and reputation, but it's not record company supported. So, indeed, where are the finances supposed to come from? It's extreme hard work. Everything I do outside of the band, for me, goes back into it. I'm not unhappy about that situation. That seems to be the way it works best for me, as indeed it had to right from the very beginning when I first formed Public Image.

NP: Artists throughout history have relied on sponsors.

JL: Yes. This is very true. Every classical composer had to have a royal family to pay them. Do you think I should approach the Queen for a bob or two?

NP: I think you should. I mean you've done so much to promote her.

JL: And I would think not negatively. Hopefully I've made it completely clear to the royal family that while I'm paying tax for them I have every right to comment. More so than most I would think seeing as I have to go through all kinds of rigmarole to earn enough to be able to pay that tax. I suppose the way I live, and Ari is the same way with The Slits, is outside of the system.

NP: What are your feelings towards the royal family these days?

JL: Wonderful people. Is there room for inbreds? Yes, of course. If in any way, shape or form you love to study nature there's a classic example.

NP: Well in America, even though there's no royalty, we've created an aristocratic class with the likes of the Hiltons and the Bush family.

JL: And the Kennedys.

NP: So there is a social need for it.

JL: Well, whether you like it or not, you have to face up to the fact that human beings somewhat need some kind of leadership. I'm all for the art of the individual, but I'm very aware that many people can't possibly be that way. Without someone telling them what to do they feel hopelessly lost. Now that might be because of the education system we all have to suffer our way through.

NP: The problem with democracy is it relies on an educated populace, and we don't have that anymore.

JL: No. Odd isn't it?

NP: That's why you see so many people voting against their interest. I know that you've been very vocal about the need to encourage literacy and education.

JL: Yes. I used to run an internet radio thing which went for six hours every Saturday morning. On it I would debate with politicians and so-called alleged intelligentsia. I remember serious debates, me saying I think children should not look down on education because I see it as just about the only thing that's free that actually carries any value. But I would get pedantic nonsense like, "Education: What does that word mean?" Well it can mean many things, but it's allowing children to be open-minded. And I'm afraid you're never going to get that with a Republican led country.

Their behavior as of late I think has embarrassed America immensely across the entire planet, and they're still promoting anger and ignorance. They really do want to keep us dumb. I mean they even want their own president to be dumb. George Bush is a classic example of how they so ill-consider us as a population. I view myself as American in this respect, because that's where I live and pay tax. I find it infuriating.

NP: So if you were president, what would you do?

JL: Retire. [laughs] I think, unlike the Bush's I would bring broccoli back to the White House. I remember that was one of his biggest issues, he hated broccoli. It's funny, every Republican president we've had, they're all very, very big meat-eaters, and they're very against vegetables. It's bizarre. This is why they're all constipated, and hence the lack of brain cells.

NP: George Bush's greatest achievement was officially declaring ketchup a vegetable.

JL: Wonderful huh? Well officially he is a vegetable. I've seen a most excellent bit of footage on CNN yesterday morning. It was terrific. It shows him and Clinton out in Haiti dealing with the homeless there. That's a great thing, to say America's here to help you. But every time George Bush shook hands with someone he then wiped his hand on Clinton's shirt. Now what does that say? A lot. Volumes. And that kind of misrepresentation of this country has got to stop. You can look at it in many ways. Is he being humorous? But ultimately he's being insulting. There's still the implication of 'you dirty peoples,' and that's wrong.

NP: So if you met George Bush what would you say to him?

JL: I'd say: "Sit down you drunken uncle." I know he's allegedly given up alcohol, but the effects are still in there. I think when he was young he drunk enough to last a lifetime.

NP: I could never quite put my finger on whether George Bush was really dumb, or really clever and acting dumb to appeal to the masses.

JL: I think he's like this; You've been to birthday parties, you know, when it's for kids and all the family members gather. He's that stupid uncle that spills the lemonade on the table and spoils the kid's birthday cake. That's him.

NP: Well the lemonade he's spilt on the planet we're going to be cleaning up for years.

JL: Yes. But that's it. He's clumsy. He thinks he's witty. He possibly is. If he's left in less dangerous situations you might actually find him very pleasant, but never, ever give a man like that a position of responsibility. People voting [for him], that's bad enough. But the fact is that party fully supported Coco the Clown and let him loose on the world. And the result is two catastrophic wars in the Middle East. Please! Why are we listening to them anymore?

NP: Well, that goes back to education.

JL: Well you know as well as I do that Republicans are not for educating the masses. They believe completely in private schooling, and bugger the rest of us.

NP: Well thank you for taking the time out to chat. I'm very much looking forward to the live show.

JL: Alrighty. Ooh, can I end on the best tattoo I've ever seen?

NP: Please do.

JL: It was on Fantasy Island. The little bloke was called Tattoo.

They say the house always wins, but in the case of "Casino" Jack Abramoff it was the guy holding the keys to the front and back doors that made out like a bandit. Like thousands of other lobbyists (close to 14,000 individuals were registered as such in 2009 according to the Center for Responsive... more

They say the house always wins, but in the case of "Casino" Jack Abramoff it was the guy holding the keys to the front and back doors that made out like a bandit. Like thousands of other lobbyists (close to 14,000 individuals were registered as such in 2009 according to the Center for Responsive Politics) Abramoff peddled access to influence, which he bought with generous campaign "donations" and perks such as luxury "fact-finding" trips.

Abramoff wasn't too picky about who his clients were, had no problem representing more than one side, and, as a disciple of Ronald Reagan school of economics, had a innate disrespect for any rules and regulations that interfered with his ability to capitalize at the often excessive expense of his clients.

Having represented several Indian tribes with regards to their lucrative gaming rights, Abramoff (along with business partner Adam Kidan) utilized his gambling expertise and made a play to buy the SunCruz floating casino line. The deal hit headlines in 2005 when three men connected to the Gambino crime family were charged with the 2001 murder of SunCruz founder Konstantinos "Gus" Bouli, who had sold a majority interest in the company to Abramoff and his associates. By this time Abramoff was being investigated for bribery and corruption relating to his Indian gaming clients, who had collectively been charged an estimated $85 million in fees by Abramoff and cronies Ralph E. Reed, Jr., Grover Norquist and Michael Scanlon -- for the privilege of being played off against each other.

In truth, Abramoff's business practices probably had much in common with those of a large proportion of his contemporaries. His main crime in Washington's prevailing climate of corruption seemingly being that he got too cocky not to get caught. Ultimately Abramoff and an elite group of conspirators including Ohio's Republican Rep. Bob Ney, his former Chief of Staff, Neil Volz, and Michael Scanlon, who had served as Communications Director for disgraced Texan Rep. Tom DeLay (and had assisted Abramoff in the SunCruz purchase), paid -- albeit relatively lightly -- for their crimes, and Washington was able to breathe a collective sigh of relief that it had been seen to do something with actions that had minimal long-term impact on the status quo.

However, it's this status quo, the lobbying system and how its symbiotic with the way we finance the election of our leaders, that we should really take issue with since it has done more to pervert the course of democracy than any one individual. In 2009 a record $3.48 billion was spent on lobbying. And since a politician's primary objective once they get in power, by necessity, is to find the money to get reelected, it's easy to understand why our representatives in government are forced to serve the needs of those with fat checkbooks above those of the people.

With an eye on this bigger picture, Oscar-winning documentarian Alex Gibney (whose previous credits include Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room and Taxi to the Dark Side) takes an in-depth look at the stranger-then-fiction Abramoff affair in his new film Casino Jack and The United States of Money. SuicideGirls caught up with Gibney to talk about the wholesale selling of America he investigated, and how, with a dearth of untarnished white knights, our future champions might just take the form of the likes of Eliot Spitzer (who's the subject of Gibney's next, as yet untitled, project).

Nicole Powers: We all think we know Abramoff, but what struck me about this movie is that what has been reported by the mainstream media is just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, I had no idea that his story went from Angola to Russia to Malaysia, and from revolutionary rebels to oligarchs to heads of state.

Alex Gibney: I know, and to me that was the wild and fun part. I got into the story not just because he was a lobbyist, but because he was this action movie hero. He's the main character in an action film of his own mind. He's going all over the place like some sort of secret agent. It was a fantastic story.

NP: I loved the clips you show of the movie Abramoff produced, Red Scorpion, which starred Dolph Lundgren in the rogue freedom fighter role that you theorize was Abramoff's fantasy version of himself.

AG: The weightlifting scene, I mean who thinks of that? To come up with a weight lifting scene in an action movie -- because, of course, Jack was a weightlifter. How good is that?

NP: And obviously your movie covers the mob-style hit too.

AG: That's right.

NP: How far towards Abramoff do you think that went?

AG: You mean, was he responsible for the murder?

NP: Yes.

AG: I don't think he was responsible for the murder. I think what it shows though is his recklessness. In other words, suddenly, he's become so drunk with power and money that he's become extremely reckless, and he's using his political pals to help him do financial deals -- Bob Ney's role in the SunCruz thing. And suddenly he's got himself in a situation that because he's so close to the center of power in Washington D.C. that mobsters that are associated with his pal Adam Kidan are just a hair's breadth away from the seat of power in Washington D.C. So that recklessness about who he was doing business with, and how he was doing business, really is what's important about that I think.

NP: Obviously Abramoff is sitting in jail, but the people that he was interacting with on a daily basis are still out there. The powers that be stuck Abramoff in jail and tied a nice bow on top of his case, but there are many more people that are just as guilty in the highest echelons of power who got off scot-free.

AG: I became really sympathetic to Jack in the sense that I think it's exactly as you say, he became the convenient mechanism by which everybody could say, "It wasn't me. I didn't have anything [to do with it]. It was Jack. Jack did it all. He was the criminal. Now the criminals are behind bars and it's all good." When in fact Jack was doing what in many ways was mainstream. He was dong it more outrageously, he was dong it more recklessly, but a lot of the stuff he did was very mainstream lobbying stuff.

NP: He was the fall guy. With him in jail, Washington could say they'd reformed, and that the checks and balances were working. But in actual fact, with the recent Supreme Court ruling which removed corporate spending limits on campaign financing, things are actually even worse than when Abramoff was doing his thing.

AG: I couldn't agree with you more. Things are much worse now, and, in a funny way, Abramoff going to prison becomes a smoke screen for just how bad things are.

NP: You got some amazing interviews for the film. What motivated people like Ney and DeLay to talk on camera?

AG: I bribed them. I learned that from Jack. [laughs] No, it took us a long time to get Bob. I wrote to him a couple of times in prison, [and got] no response. When he got out, one of my producers, Zena Barakat, made contact with him through another gig she was on. [She] mentioned this to him, and he liked her and ultimately agreed. Adam Kidan, same thing. We just reached out to him after he got out of prison. I had actually corresponded with him while he was in prison, and I think he wanted to tell his story. In the case of Bob, he knew that the guy who had sent him to prison, Neil Volz, had talked to me. At the time he couldn't have been more angry at one person than at Neil because Neil basically put him in jail. Now they've had a bit of a rapprochement I think, but that motivated Bob to talk.

It's funny the way it works. You keep at it, you keep at it, and then you get one person and it kind of leads you to another person. Once you get somebody in the room, my experience is that they're pretty open. DeLay is a little bit different. I mean DeLay spoke only because he was on a book tour. He was not the kind of strutting motherfucker that he was when he was at the height of his power. He was somewhat humbled, or, at least, soft-spoken, but he was completely unrepentant. And that was great. That's fine.

NP: You didn't get Abramoff on camera for the movie, but I understand you did talk with him.

AG: I didn't get any video of him in prison, but I did visit him. It was important for me, I think, to take the measure of the man. I found that productive, fruitful, important, but I was prohibited from taking my cameras into the prison.

NP: So what did he have to say to you?

AG: Most of what we talked about was off the record, but he gave me a tremendous amount of color and background in terms of how he did what he did, and that was great. Also, what was intriguing to me, back to this whole bad apple / rotten barrel thing, you know, talking to him, he's funny. He's a good storyteller, he's a movie buff, I'm a movie buff, he's a sports freak. It becomes easy to demonize people, like Washington has done to Abramoff, and when you do that you think, well it's just their character, it's a man of bad character, and you miss the bigger picture, which is how corruption works both systemically and how it works really in all of us.

NP: Because there's thousands of other lobbyists doing very similar things.

AG: Correct. It's going on now, and, as you say, it's worse in some ways.

NP: This movie is ultimately about the sale of America, and having seen your Enron documentary, it was interesting to see how you connected the dots in that film to Arnold Schwarzenegger. How Enron championed the ousting of California Governor Gray Davis, and brought in Schwarzenegger. Obviously we're sitting in California, which is a bankrupt state to this day because of that energy crisis. And one of the possible quid pro quos that you present in the movie is that Schwarzenegger was put in power on condition that he wouldn't go after the Enron money.

AG: Yeah. I think in a way, Schwarzenegger was a kind of beneficiary of the demonization of Gray Davis. I mean there was that famous meeting which I cite in the movie where Ken Lay talks to Schwarzenegger and a bunch of other people about taking advantage of what they did to Grey Davies. But I think Enron saw that much more pragmatically. Gray Davis was getting in their way, preventing them from making as much money as they wanted to make, so they took him out. And the way they took him out was by manipulating the electricity prices in the state. Now, at the same time, they were making scads of money doing that. With Enron it's a case of a failed company. I mean that was a disastrous company that was just hiding how disastrous it was from everybody, but that was one big profit center -- basically strip-mining California.

NP: And they were also pulling strings on a grass roots basis to oust Davis.

AG: They were definitely pulling strings, but one of the things I discovered afterwards was that they weren't the only ones. Sadly the outgoing Clinton administration wasn't giving a lot of help to Gray Davis either. In fact Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers, the Chief of the Economic Council for the Obama administration, called up Gray Davis and lectured him. Basically they said you've got to build more dirty power plants and eviscerate your pollution controls, and let electricity prices rise as much as they will rise. You've got to believe in the market is what they told him. These were Democrats, well Greenspan wasn't a Democrat but Summers was Treasury Secretary.

Everybody has imbued that kind of money logic, the idea that whatever's good for business is good for America. Now Clinton has apologized for a lot of the policies that were done in his name through [Robert] Rueben and Summers, and that gets back to Casino Jack because Casino Jack is all about how money twists people. You know, suddenly people think it's a really good idea to have no regulation. Is that because in the pure marketplace of ideas they've just come to that [conclusion]? Or is it because actually, year after year after year, they're being re-elected because of the amount of money they're being paid by Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Citibank etc?

NP: You talk about how money twists people, but the subject of your next documentary, Eliot Spitzer, is somewhat of an exception. One of the reasons they went after him was because money didn't twist him.

AG: Correct. Now, we should say right away that he certainly gave them the ammunition to take him out. They didn't force him to start seeing prostitutes. But, he was the one guy who was standing up when the federal government wasn't, when the FCC wasn't, the Justice Department wasn't. He stood up to them. He really had a finger on what ultimately led to the huge financial meltdown, and they were very angry at him. And, yeah, I think they took him out.

NP: What hope is there for a man (or woman) that can't be bought? Everyone has skeletons that can be rattled.

AG: At the end of the day, that's why we all watch. I think we're all potentially corrupt. I mean, in some ways, hoping for the white knight, the one perfect person, it's a fruitless hope. We're all imperfect. But the question is, when are we going to stand up behind people who are trying to do the right thing? That's important. Spitzer may not be perfect, but we have to ask ourselves, is it more important that he was seeing hookers or that the global economy was melting down?


Casino Jack and The United States of Money opens in select theaters on May 7. For more information on the film and to find out how you can help the campaign for more transparency and accountability in government go to: TakePart.com/CasinoJack

We don't need a movie to tell us something's wrong with the economy. Almost everyone has been touched by a bad mortgage or unsound investment these days. At least a movie can provide answers to how we got here, and hopefully a solution to the problem. Capitalism: A Love Story is Michael Moore's... more

We don't need a movie to tell us something's wrong with the economy. Almost everyone has been touched by a bad mortgage or unsound investment these days. At least a movie can provide answers to how we got here, and hopefully a solution to the problem.

Capitalism: A Love Story is Michael Moore's explanation. The film chronicles Wall Street corruption, mortgage scams and, fortunately, effective protests that are resulting in real change. On DVD and Blu Ray, Capitalism is loaded with extras where the film's experts more fully explain the economic concepts and how people are coping.

This complex situation involves many more questions still. As someone who researched and documented it, Michael Moore can help. He's also adept at explaining things in clear and plain English, not like that doublespeak that keeps people in the dark.

Even as only a voice on the telephone, Michael Moore projects comfort. We are not alone. There are others who support us, and some with the means to educate and empower people to make things better.

Suicide Girls: I knew the idea of interest only loans sounded stupid, but even I let the bank talk me into one anyway. At what point do we have to take responsibility for making bad decisions ourselves?

Michael Moore: You're not responsible when you're fooled.

SG: Thank you. That's actually a comforting way to look at it.

MM: No, seriously. Fred, I'm going to send you 100 free copies of my DVD. You can give them to your friends and family and the people you know.

SG: Really?

MM: Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not going to send you [anything]. I don't have any DVDs to send you, but you see? You believed me.

SG: I get it. It's easy to be fooled.

MM: I would rather that you be a trusting person than a cynical suspicious person and I think that's how you would rather live your life too. I've felt this way my whole life, that when somebody lies to me, I've never felt like I'm the idiot. I feel like wow, Mike, you're a pretty decent guy who you placed your trust in that person and they're the ones who committed the immoral act of lying to you. You didn't do anything wrong. In fact, you did the right thing.

SG: The film articulates why capitalism doesn't work. What is it about America that we wont't give up on these failed systems?

MM: I know, and you know what? 400 years from now, maybe 100 years from now, historians are going to look at us and they're going to think we're crazy. They're going to go, "Look at these people. They just kept doing the same dumb thing over and over again and they had the power in their hands with democracy. One person, one vote. Even though the one percent owned 95% of the wealth, the other 99 percent had the vote. Yet they didn't use the vote to stop all this greed and all this destruction." We're going to look crazy.

SG: Well, there are contingents who do a very good job convincing the very people they're screwing over to support their policy.

MM: Absolutely. It never ceases to amaze me why, and I'm not a big pro-Democratic Party guy because I've got a lot of problems with them, but I've never understood why working class and poor people vote for Republicans, the party of the wealthy man. They think that the party of the wealthy man is going to help them. They're not going to get anything but a crumb off the table.

SG: I guess you and I can't find an answer to that.

MM: No, it has baffled me and when I do come to an answer, I'll make a movie about it.

SG: Even after all the Wall Street fiascos, they're still pressuring us to invest. Don't worry, I wasn't going to do that before, let alone now, but what are sound things to do with our money?

MM: Number one, don't ever buy a share of stock. I have never owned a share of stock personally. I have never bought one.

SG: It just sounds like a corrupt principal.

MM: It is. Well, it is and here's what's corrupt about it. Number one, you know it's a casino. You know when you walk into a casino, you're not walking out of there a winner. You're going to win for a little bit maybe to create the illusion of winning. What also is wrong with it is that you and I, Fred, we should be earning our money through our sweat or our ideas, not trying to make money off our money. My advice to any working person is if you do have any extra money, and I don't know how you would in this climate and these days, but if you do, I'll just tell you what I do and what I've always done. I remember the grandparents saying, "If you're able to buy your own home, you should put that into your own home." Don't pay more than you should for it but that's always been a good place. It's been bad now for people because they got hoodwinked. Like the guy says in my movie, the FBI even says that at least 70-80% of all this mortgage fraud is fraud committed by the bank, not by the people taking out the loan. The other thing I'd do if I have any extra money is I'll buy a savings bond or a treasury bill or something that the U.S. Government is selling.

SG: In the bonus features, Chris Hedges addresses the very real problem that people just aren't working hard anymore. Is there any way to teach this generation a good work ethic again?

MM: [Heavy sigh and long pause] Wow, that's an intense question. I know the answer and I don't want to say it.

SG: Uh-oh. That sounds so dire.

MM: You know what I mean.

SG: I call it the My Super Sweet 16 generation. People just want to get whatever they want without working for it.

MM: Right, that is the culture, isn't it? Well, the baby boomers that were supposed to create a better world, it's their children that are in that spot. I am one of those baby boomers and I wonder just how much we've screwed things up.

SG: I hope there's more light at the end of the tunnel for some other topics. How could health care fail again?

MM: It fails because the Democrats have a failure of their own will. They don't have the guts to stand up for what they believe in. Let me tell you something, if the Republicans were in charge and they had that many votes in Congress, they'd just jam it right through. They wouldn't give a damn but Democrats, I know what they're doing. They're trying to take the higher road but really, they're being bought and paid for by the same pharmaceutical and health insurance companies the Republicans are bought and paid for, so let's just be honest about it.

SG: How can we get anything done when every minor critic gets to kill any potential plan to fix things?

MM: Right, well, that's because the Democrats won't stand up. One guy can shut down the whole Senate now.

SG: Can't someone just say, "If you're in the health business, you have to cover everything. That's your business gamble."

MM: But then they wouldn't make any money.

SG: Exactly! If you want to be in the health business, you risk not making money.

MM: That's why there should be no profit making companies at the table when it comes to deciding on health care. You have to remove profit from it. You wouldn't turn our water department over to a profit making company. That would be crazy. We should be treating health care the same way. You don't expect the fire department to turn a profit. It's a necessary service. So is a doctor when you get sick. For crying out loud.

SG: Is the elephant in the room that it costs $100,000 for a life saving procedure, that's not a feasible procedure?

MM: That's one of the problems here is that there's so much profit involved, that's why we spend over $7,000 a year on the average American and their health care and the Canadians spend about $3500. They don't allow profit to enter in as much as we do here.

SG: So it doesn't' actually cost that much for these cutting edge procedures?

MM: No, it's a markup. Just like when you go in the store, everything there has been marked up at least 50% from what it actually cost.

SG: The way they sold that fear of socialism, are people happy enough when they can't see their doctor that they'll stick by that program?

MM: It's very easy to scare people and to use fear when you have an ignorant population. Fred, you have 40 million functional illiterates in this country, adults who cannot read and write above the fourth grade level. We have a level of ignorance and stupidity that is so incredible and when you keep people in the dark and you keep them stupid, it's easy to scare them. It's like a five-year-old. We're a nation of five-year-olds, five-year-olds afraid of the boogeyman in the closet. Cry, "Mommy, daddy, come here. There's a monster in the closet."

SG: Well, they sure did a great job ruining education.

MM: Yeah, that's part of it though, making sure you have a shitty education system enforces the level of ignorance.

SG: Hedges also brings up overpopulation, which is an important problem not being discussed. Is there a humane way to control or reduce our numbers?

MM: Well, yes. All the studies show that the more education a person has, the better their income in terms of being able to not live with the fear of doing without, the lower the birthrates. So when we make a more economically just world for people, and an educated world and especially women being educated throughout the world, when that happens you'll see the birthrate go down to something that's reasonable and won't kill the planet. I'll tell you right now, this planet cannot sustain nine billion people on it.

SG: This might not even be one of your pet issues, but What will it take to universally pass gay marriage?

MM: What it will take is for every gay and lesbian individual in this country to bravely come out of the closet, tell their families and their friends that they're gay and all they want in life is what everybody else wants. You know what? This is where the human part of this comes in because unless you're Dick Cheney, you really do want what's best for your child. You don't want your child discriminated against. You don't want your child living an unhappy life. I think that the advances that have been made to this point with gay rights has been because enough gay people have been brave enough to come out. So the more that that happens, the more that everybody realizes that there's someone gay someone in their family or extended family, it's very hard to hate when that thing you're supposed to hate is very close to you.

SG: Can that get through the fear? Homophobes are so scared of this, they don't even remember that people used to be afraid to let women vote or abolish slavery, but we changed that and it turned out okay.

MM: And we'll change this too. This too will get better.

Capitalism: A Love Story is available on DVD and Blu Ray on March 9.

Amanda Palmer is a rebel with a cause; she fights fiercely for her artistic freedom. When the musician and singer, who is currently on hiatus from the "Brechtian punk cabaret" band The Dresden Dolls, made a video to promote one of the songs from her debut solo album, Who Killed Amada Palmer,... more

Amanda Palmer is a rebel with a cause; she fights fiercely for her artistic freedom.

When the musician and singer, who is currently on hiatus from the "Brechtian punk cabaret" band The Dresden Dolls, made a video to promote one of the songs from her debut solo album, Who Killed Amada Palmer, it seems her belly didn't conform to the ideal expressed by a male executive at her label, who apparently explained: "I'm a guy, Amanda. I understand what people like." She fought the label's attempt to slim down her stomach's role in the clip for "Leeds United" (it was already pretty damn small). Her loyal fans also rose to her defense, and a grassroots ReBellyOn website was launched.

The incident was the final straw in Palmer's already fractured relationship with Roadrunner Records, a subsidiary of the Warner Music Group. The singer subsequently asked to be released from her contractual obligations. So far the label has declined her request.

Palmer consoled herself with the very loving and direct relationship she enjoys with her fans via MySpace and her own blog. So when she sparked even more outrage with the release of her follow-up video, for the song "Oasis", they were the first people she turned to for help.

Amanda's semi-autobiographical lyrics tell a story of rape and abortion as told from the perspective of a teenager, who gets through the traumatic experience thanks to her preoccupation with the Brit-pop band Oasis. The subject matter of the song, and the up-beat way it was portrayed in the video, proved to be too much for broadcasters to handle.

Palmer, who is currently touring Europe, received an email while she was in the U.K. from her label there explaining that "all"' of the TV outlets had refused to play the video due to it "making light of rape, religion and abortion." Palmer, in response, reached out to her fans via a lengthy missive on her blog, and by calling up SuicideGirls.

Nicole Powers: Hello.

Amanda Palmer: Bonsoir.

NP: So you're in France right now? Whereabouts?

AP: I'm in Toulouse. It's really quite beautiful.

NP: So are you enjoying the French experience, the fine wine and wonderful cheese?

AP: Yes, unfortunately. It makes performing seem secondary actually, to the cuisine and the wine, but one does what one can to shuffle.

NP: I think that would be the rule of thumb for the whole of France; Anything that anyone does in France is secondary to the food and the wine.

AP: Yeah. It's clearly a beautiful way to live life. I have noticed that as I grow older I am becoming more and more orientated towards the enjoyment of food and wine, and much less concerned about basically everything else.

NP: I'm guessing that being in France is probably a good place to be right now, because maybe it's putting the drama of the video situation in perspective.

AP: Yeah. Nobody in France gives a shit actually about how funny I am or am not about rape and abortion luckily.

NP: Does the humor even translate?

AP: The fans know, the fans know what the songs are about. One thing I have to say that's really nice about my fan base in general in France or Germany, or wherever, is that the vast majority of the people are highly educated and all speak English, so they pick up on the subtly of the lyrics, which is really important to me because the lyrics are obviously so critical to the music. None of them are really just throwaway who-gives-a-shit lyrics, they're really central.

NP: So you're touring in Germany too. That's almost like selling ice to Iceland, because the particular form of cabaret that you do was born in Germany and Berlin during the war.

AP: Yeah, well we certainly gave an early nod to Germany when we were first explaining to people what the band was like and about. But it's one of those chicken and egg things. I mean, I think, even if the band wasn't called the Dresden Dolls, and I hadn't tagged us with this Brechtian name, I think people in Germany would totally dig the style anyway.

NP: But I think it's important to underline, given what you're going through now, that the style of music you do was born out of a terrible situation and a terrible time in war-torn Germany and Berlin, where such humor was a coping mechanism.

AP: Absolutely. I think that you'll find that's true across the board in every way with so many things, that art is always a direct, sometimes desperate response to what is going on culturally and politically. I mean that story is as old as the hills.

NP: Getting on to the video ban and the subject matter of the song, my initial reaction as an adult was that it was inappropriate, but then as I listened to the lyrics and watched the video, I realized what a great characterization it was, and how accurately you depicted the voice of a teenager. Teenagers do trivialize the stuff that they're traumatized by the most. Again, it's a basic coping mechanism, and the people in charge of what gets broadcast clearly aren't understanding that.

AP: Well you know, I think it's worse than that. I think that the broadcasters do understand it, but they're not giving enough credit to their audience to be also able to pick up on the irony. I think the broadcasters are sitting around saying, "Well we understand the humor, but obviously the general public won't be able to pick up on the subtlety." And I think that that is incredibly dangerous and really insulting. Because what happens then when you wind up with a bunch of mainstream content that's completely shooting at the lowest common denominator? Then you wind up in a snowballing situation where, if the content isn't intelligent, then people will actually become stupider.

NP: I think it's also something more insidious than that. I found it very interesting that in your blog you said that someone at the BBC said the song might be palatable for broadcast if you sung it slowly and in a minor key. That's like saying rape and abortion is only OK to discuss publicly as long as we view the woman as a victim.

AP: Yes, and the situation as sad and tragic. That's why this conversation gets really dicey. It's why, in my blog, I drew the comparison to that incredible Holocaust movie, Life Is Beautiful. There's nothing about the song or that film that says don't take this thing seriously, but it's a commentary about life that says people, especially teenagers, don't always take things seriously, and that's a subtle differentiation but such an important one in art. Because you're reflecting what's out there, and what's out there isn't necessarily good, you know?

NP: It goes without saying, obviously the teenager in your song was not happy about being raped, but is society saying that if a woman is raped it's only palatable if she sits around moping and is in tears for the next six months?

AP: Yeah. I think you basically just hit the nail on the head. It really makes people uncomfortable, especially with subjects like this, when you tell it how it might be...I think the most important thing, to bring it back to the artist's position, is that you have to have the freedom to reflect on everything. You have to have the freedom to reflect on a fucked up teenager's fucked up reaction to a fucked up situation, even though there are a lot of elements of that whole landscape that people might find uncomfortable. If you can't reflect on the realities of what's going on out there because people don't like those realities, then you're sort of forced to sweep those realities under the rug, which is when you get into trouble.

NP: In your blog you talk about how the song isn't really about rape and abortion, it's about the girl's denial. But what the song's actually bringing out is society's own tendency towards denial.

AP: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. It's very complicated, I mean there's so many issues that are stirring around in there that you could dredge out, like how people feel about abortion, and how women often are blamed. The same is true with rape and date-rape, and all of these really touchy subjects can come up. But, none of those subjects were in my mind when I wrote this song. It's just funny how that winds up happening because none of that was on the agenda at all.

NP: You talk about how women are blamed for abortion, in America abortion is a terrifying prospect, not only because of the procedure, but because of the traumatic experience a women has to go through at the hands of the anti-abortion brigade.

AP: Absolutely.

NP: Why are these people so focused on being anti-abortion? Wouldn't their energy be better used if they were anti-rape? They should focus their anger on the fact that kids can't always get the correct 'family planning', I hate that euphemism, information, or access to birth control. Why do women focus their anger on other women in terrible situations?

AP: Yeah. Absolutely. To me it's such a terrible irony. The most obviously example was some years ago when those pro-lifers busted into an abortion clinic and shot a bunch of people. How exactly are you defining pro-life?

But you know, I didn't deal with it in my blog, but that was my experience. I would have to say the worst part about getting an abortion wasn't the surgery itself, it was having to deal with people screaming at me outside of the clinic, and literally shoving up against me, and shoving pictures of mutilated fetuses in my face. I think, if anything else, when it comes down to it, writing that song was my way of processing that kind of assault, and just making it into a joke, which is how I process it, and that's got to be fair.

NP: How old were you when that happened?

AP: I was seventeen.

NP: So you were essentially that girl in the song?

AP: Pretty much. I mean obviously I exaggerated it, and I turned it into a really hyperbolic joke. Certainly, I was taking it much more seriously than the character in the song. But to be able to characterize those things, and to be able to laugh at them, it's an effective -- and it has to be a valid -- coping mechanism.

NP: I love the way you talk about how humor is a weapon in your blog. It is a weapon that can raise us up out of victimhood. You yourself, are not a victim. You've used humor to transcend that.

AP: Absolutely. But I think more importantly, it's not that you have to choose humor, it's just like a woman's right to choose between having a kid and getting an abortion, your experience is your experience, and you should be able to process and deal the way that you need to without other people demanding that you feel and experience anything a certain way. That includes everything, absolutely everything.

I think that's where art and artists are really essential in culture period, because they often break that ground that helps people come to terms with, and cope with, their own emotions about things. Because artists do always take it one step further, and push the edge and open up strange possibilities and pry through the darkest cracks of consciousness that you don't usually do just like sitting in your kitchen, brewing tea.

That's why people love music so much, and it's why people tend to embrace art and get really personal about it, because the best artists and songwriters, at least in my life in my experience, are those who put those experiences into a perspective that we're not able to, and laugh about them, or cry about them, or make them completely surreal. It's so necessary for life that we not only allow it but it should be encouraged -- we should be encouraging artists to do that.

NP: What helped you at the time? You were seventeen and must have felt very alone and very shocked.What music were you listening to to help you cope?

AP: Seventeen, it probably would have been The Cure and Depeche Mode. Seriously...I was a singer in high school, I think right around then my favorite band was The Legendary Pink Dots, and I was probably still listening to Violator and Disintegration, and Robyn Hitchcock who has a fantastic, bizarre sense of humor and shaped me a lot...Also Morrissey, who also has this great way of pushing the lines between what is and isn't appropriate to sing and talk about.

When I look at those songwriters who I really worshipped...When you hear people singing about the unsingable or talking about the unspeakable, but they're artists, I just assumed growing up that all artists had a special status in which they were immune to any kind of rules and regulations about what they were or weren't allowed to talk about, and that anything that was imaginable was allowed to be put into creation. But you know, it's not up to anyone to do that but the artist themselves. It's the artist who has to sit there and get the wild idea and manifest it and stand on trail

NP: Instead of it getting easier for artists to express unpopular or uncomfortable ideas (as it did in the first three-quarters of the 20th century), it seems now to be getting harder. Obviously the Dixie Chicks is the example to throw out there.

AP: Oh that was ridiculous.

NP: And this kind of censorship goes on all the time, behind closed doors in the offices of broadcasters on a daily basis. There's so much censorship going on that we don't even know about or question.

AP: I think there's two things that come to mind when you talk about that. One is the fact that mainstream music in order to survive has had to become increasingly more commercial, but that is due directly to the fact that music now can exist pretty much entirely on the internet and spread via word of mouth and not rely on mainstream promotional channels at all. So things are getting pushed in both directions. MTV is getting more and more terrified, and your mainstream radio outlets, who are losing business by the boatload, are making even more conservative decisions than usual because they can't afford to lose a single advertiser.

But in the meantime, an artist like me who has never really relied on those mainstream outlets, is getting all of her attention via MySpace and YouTube and by word of mouth by email. I think people underestimate the degree to which that is right on the brink of permanently changing. That sort of control is just going to be a thing of the past as everything become totally democratized on the internet.

The thing we need to worry about now is the outlets like YouTube starting to edit content at the hands of the advertisers, which is very slowly starting to happen. I mean, I don't know if you also picked this up on my blog, but YouTube just took down a whole bunch of my videos because they're involved in a lawsuit with Warner Music -- about money. It's just such an interesting time because we've got a lot to talk about and there's obviously this whole new paradigm that is taking shape, and the artists are sitting within it trying to figure out where exactly they fit.

NP: So your videos all just got caught up in the lawsuit?

AP: Yeah. They've since been put back up, but not with the original play counts. So a video that had a couple of hundred thousand hits now is just starting from scratch, which is obviously a pain in the ass.

It's scary, we're all used to everything on the internet being free, but there is going to come this breaking point at which things become, once again commercialized. It's something I really worry about, because I hear young rock bands talking about this nowadays, and they're actually talking about getting endorsed by products, sneakers and sunglasses, as if this is something cool. They never got the memo that that's actually completely ridiculous, and that they need to be so much more careful with their image and their art.

NP: But to be fair on these new bands, that's because people don't value music and they don't consider it something that should be paid for, so these bands have no expectation of being able to make money from music sales.

AP: Yeah. But that's fucked up. We actually can't survive that way. That is not any way for real artists to function.

NP: People need to start valuing music again.

AP: Well it comes down to the artist/fan relationship. Ignoring the middle-man for a second, and ignoring all the other people who want to make money, can the fans and the artists make a pact with each other that they will take care of each other, without interference. That's what I'm trying very hard specifically to do with my fan base, and they're coming along for the ride, which is fantastic. I would encourage all other artists and fans to do the same thing.

It's like a real relationship. It's a commitment. The fan has to be able to commit to the artist and say, "Wow, you rely on me to survive. I'm going to have to give you some money." And the artists have to be able to turn round to the fan and say, "You are literally supporting me, and I need to treat you with respect, and not over-price my fucking tickets. And not screw you in any way, not take advantage of you, not push products in your faces." Like any other relationship, it's got to be based on a real trust and mutual respect. Those are the relationships that will stand the test of time, and those are the bands that will survive, the ones that really get that that is fundamentally where we're headed.

NP: How do you explain to your fans about this trust and two-way support?

AP: I literally explain it to them through the blog and through the mailing list. I just constantly reiterate and point out that I'm relying on them to survive -- especially since things have gone awry with my relationship with the label that I'm on. That I really need their support, that I need them to actually buy the record, I need them to sign up for the mailing list, I need them to tell people about the shows.

In exchange I give myself completely when I play live. I refuse to phone-in a gig, and I will meet every single person who is standing in line for an autograph every night, even if it takes me four hours sometimes. So it's an ongoing dialog. That's what I fucking love about the internet. The questions are different every day, and the audience can actually ask me, and I can sit there at my Mac backstage and type in, "This is what we should do...this is how we can support the system."



Here are the "offending" videos. Let us know what you think in the comments section below.


"Oasis" - Making light of rape, religion and abortion?



'Leeds United" - Not what people like?


Amanda Palmer is currently on tour. Check her MySpace page for further info.

SuicideGirl Stina Sardinha may not be a name you're well acquainted with, but it should be. Given how long she's been tattooing, it's quite surprising that she doesn't have one preferred 'style' when it comes to tattooing. With talent a decade in the making, it's no... more

SuicideGirl Stina Sardinha may not be a name you're well acquainted with, but it should be. Given how long she's been tattooing, it's quite surprising that she doesn't have one preferred 'style' when it comes to tattooing. With talent a decade in the making, it's no wonder this rising star has started to attract some well-deserved attention from the tattooing world.



TattooSnob: Let's get the most generic question out of the way. Tell us a little about yourself!
Stina Sardinha: Well, I'm a tattooist in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, it's about an hour from Boston. I work with a great bunch of guys including my husband, James. I've been tattooing for about 10 years now, which is also how long I've been vegan. I've recently become a mother, which is the most amazing thing in the world.

TS: It seems like most artists have a point at which everything "came together" for them. When that was for you?
SS: I think most of us have a few times it all comes together and a few times it all falls apart.

Probably the biggest "come together" point was a few years ago when my friend, Shaun, was opening a new studio. I had just come out of a 3 year relationship, quit my job at a street shop because I couldn't stand the owners anymore, and was kind of traveling around trying to plan a path. Shaun offered for me to work with him until I decided what to do with myself. Obviously, I decided to stay. The group of people we have is pretty awesome and we all bounce off of each other, learn new things from and teach each other. Once I was in a healthy atmosphere that allowed me to grow as an artist, I started putting a lot more effort in. 



TS: Your shop's website states that you are able to tattoo in a wide array of styles; your portfolio is certainly representative of that. Is that because you prefer to tattoo in as many different ways as possible or is it based off demands of your clientele?
SS: Ha! When you live in New Hampshire you kind of have to be more flexible. Most people don't even know that a tattoo can have more than a hand scrawled name and a Cherry Creek rose. So not only are you a little more limited, but you have to have the charisma to help a person expand their view of tattoos. You have to get pretty creative to be able to twist a simple zodiac or kid tattoo into something you'd be stoked to show off as a portfolio piece. However, I do like to try new things and explore new techniques. I always see things other tattooers have done and think, "How can I emulate that technique in my own work?"





TS: Do you feel there's any particular style/type of tattoo that comes to you the easiest?
SS: Plants, animals, people... and I like to stick to a range of semi-realistic to traditional. I won't tattoo without lines unless it's shaded enough to hold up. I don't need every tattoo to look like it's traditional, but I don't want to see my tattoo come back in 5 years faded and without clarity.



TS: You obviously have a lot of requests for work. What's the best way for someone to get in touch with you? How long can a client expect to wait before being able to get an appointment with you?
SS: Best bet is to email me: [e-mail]Stinasard@gmail.com[/e-mail. It depends on the time of year, how cool the tattoo is and how complex. It might range a couple of months or more...



TS: I hate to bring up the whole "being a female in the tattoo industry" thing, but I have a legitimate question on the topic. As a woman, do you feel that you're approached with different work that customers wouldn't normally have a male tattooer do?
SS: Absolutely! This is a conversation I have with the guys all of the time, haha. I have a lot of women who feel more comfortable with me, yes. That means I end up with a ton of women who want children/name based tattoos or really delicate, feminine tattoos. It's kind of funny because I never cared for flower art before, but after you tattoo a few thousand flowers you start to get pretty good.

The other thing I get more of is dudes who want control. Some people see a woman as easier to boss around, so I get a lot of control freaks. "Move this leaf 2 millimeters to the left, this petal needs to have a tiny curve, and this line should be a little more straight" or, "I need you to match the color of this water to this swatch I've brought and make sure it's exact." Some guys think it makes them seem smarter, or better if they can tell you what to do. Unfortunately, you can't always tell those people apart from regular people until you've done the drawing and are about to do the tattoo.

TS: Is there one tattoo you've done that you'd consider a personal favorite?
SS: Probably not a favorite exactly. Since our styles kind of change and evolve all of the time, it's easy to look back and see things you'd do differently in each tattoo. That being said, I do really like the Lady Stobbs tattoo and also the Neutral Milk Hotel song Illustration that I did on my husband. For some reason, I don't have the best photo of that one, but it had a lot of different elements.



TS: Let's talk about the last time you were tattooed - who did it, and what was it?
SS: Well, since I was pregnant I haven't been tattooed in over a year. The last time I got tattooed was by Nick Baxter. He had recently moved to Texas and was coming up for the Paradise Tattoo Gathering convention. For some reason we decided to finish the 8 hours or so that I had left on my sleeve in one day.

Unfortunately, the only parts we had left were the underarm, my elbow and the top of my shoulder. It's all sorts of animals, vivisection and butchery. I have at least one old person a week tell me its beautiful. At about 7 hours into the tattoo I was pretty much crazy. I was biting my own hand; babbling maniacally and writhing around like a snake while sweating all over Nick. Later, Nick sent me a picture of us laughing, which I don't recall one bit.



TS: Are there any artists out there you'd like to be tattooed by, space and time permitting of course?
SS: Certainly--there are some amazing people out there! Seth Wood, Chris Conn, Lars Uwe, Shige, Russ Abbott, Sabine Gaffron, Uncle Allan and Jeff Gogue. Annnnddd probably like 10 other people I've forgotten.



TS: What are some of your favorite tattoo conventions to attend/work at? Do you have any you specifically like to work, or any new ones you'll be checking out this year?
SS: I haven't done a lot of conventions. They're a lot of work and since I have a new baby, I'm not up for traveling too far away this year. I'll probably do the Manchester and possibly the Boston convention.



TS: With joke tattoos on the rise, I'm sure you've done at least a handful. Tell us about some of the more humorous ones you've done.
SS: Well, I've probably done more funny tattoos that are supposed to be serious, than joke tattoos. I would say "Kiss me, I'm Irish" with a smiley face on a penis kinda tops my list. During our conversation I asked if he was afraid that this tattoo would be a deal breaker. He said that no, it wouldn't be and in fact would be quite popular with the ladies. Another penis tattoo was on a guy who had the same name as a cartoon character so he had that cartoon done on the tip of his penis.

I also had a young girl a few years ago who insisted on getting JC Chasez tattooed on her wrist. She told me that when he saw her (somehow) standing in the huge crowd at his next Backstreet Boys concert, she would show him the tattoo and he would truly see that she was his soul mate and he would drag her onto the stage and eventually marry her. Seriously.

I just don't think joke tattoos are big in New Hampshire, yet... but with these sort of serious tattoos, I'm not sure I need anymore humor in my work life.

TS: So you're a full-time tattooer & a mom - what else do you have going on?
SS: Oh geeze. Well this year I'm working on a bunch of paintings that will eventually go to an art show, but no promises yet. Our entire studio does charity events every year. Last year we did tattoos for $30-$70 with the proceeds going to an abused dog that needed an amputation. With only 3 of us working, we made 3,000 dollars in one long day. We're not sure what we're going to do this year. Ideas anyone?

















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Dita Von Teese is one of the world's most dazzling women. The Swarovski-adorned mistress of striptease has done more to preserve and promote the hallowed art of burlesque than any other performer alive today. Her sexy and spectacular shows feature stunning costumes and larger-than-life props, but... more

Dita Von Teese is one of the world's most dazzling women. The Swarovski-adorned mistress of striptease has done more to preserve and promote the hallowed art of burlesque than any other performer alive today. Her sexy and spectacular shows feature stunning costumes and larger-than-life props, but are always grounded in the purity of the classic art form. Thus they have an innate dignity that never relies on the kind of bump and grind sleaze that many of Dita's contemporaries mistake for erotica.

In a league of her own, the Michigan born and Orange County raised girl, who once had aspirations of becoming a ballerina, is an international glamour icon. Celebrated both for her performance art and her impeccable vintage style, her world-class status was sealed in October 2006 when she became the first ever featured headlining guest performer at the legendary Crazy Horse in Paris. She returned to the prestigious cabaret club in February of this year for a limited two week run which was so successful that she was immediately booked again for another series of shows the following month.

The hottest ticket in town, Dita's run at the Crazy Horse attracted such luminaries as Jean Paul Gaultier, Kanye West, Kylie Minogue, and Stephen Spielberg, among others. Her performances are as rare as they are exotic however, in part due to the time and expense they take to conceive. Fortunately those who are unable to witness Dita in the flesh have two new options. The first is a DVD of Dita's Crazy Horse show. The second is Stripteese, a set of three miniature flip-books books which capture individual facets of her repertoire and come packaged together in a deluxe gift box.

We caught up with Dita to find out more about the books and DVD, her new Opium Den set which was 4 years in the making, her plans for shows in Paris and Vegas in 2010, and her life in the romance capital of the world.

Nicole Powers: From reading your last interview with SG (with Daniel Robert Epstein in 2006), I understand you're keen that people appreciate the history of burlesque. The format of this set of books harks back to vintage Victoriana. What inspired you to do the mini flip-book format?

Dita Von Teese: The photographer, Sheryl Nields approached me with this book idea, and we took it to my publisher. Sheryl and I had worked together on several occasions for magazines and ad campaigns. I always liked working with her a lot, and trusted her to shoot my shows, which is rare for me because with all the time and money it takes for me to build a show, I don't let just anyone shoot them. But I really love her as an artist and as a person, and I loved her idea for this book. I just showed up and did my hair and makeup and did my show for her as she shot it stop-animation style. The end result is fabulous. I'm happy with the way the three little flip books look tucked inside the velvet-flocked bookcase. It's been selling well for the holidays.

NP: What was the technical process to capture images that would move as you flipped them. Was it done on a still or video camera? And how long did it take?

DVT: It was shot on a still camera and on the RED camera. Each show was shot in its entirety and we used the one we liked best. I think we did two days of shooting for it, several months apart from each other because the first was just done for fun, before the idea for the book.

NP: The packaging is exquisite. Where you involved in the design of that too?

DVT: Actually, for this book, all I did was describe the kind of look I wanted, and then approve it. I've always had this obsession with velvet flocked wallpaper, because when I was little, like 5, I remember that the house I moved into has this gold flocked wallpaper in the dining room, and I was devastated that my mother had it torn down. So I always have this flocked wallpaper in my houses since I first moved out as a teenager, and the cover of the book is inspired by it too.

They did a great job. I've been working on my step-by-step how to beauty book, so I didn't have a lot of time to devote to the design of this flip-book, so I kind of left the design to them and was thrilled that it came out so beautifully. I just wanted to pose for the pictures and do the promotion and signings for this book this time around, because my other book Burlesque and The Art of the Teese was an arduous task because I insisted on being hands-on. This time I had to let go a little bit.

NP: Stripteese depicts three of your burlesque sets: Bird of Paradise, Classic and Martini Glass. What's the creative process you follow when you decide to create a new set?

DVT: The Bird of Paradise and the Martini are longtime shows of mine, but I wanted to do a third more intimate striptease for this too -- "the Classic" -- which isn't a stage show I do. I wanted to make one of the books more of an intimate striptease, and less burlesque-y. So I wore this beautiful magenta silk corset that Mr. Pearl made for me. I think it's my favorite of the three flip-books.

With regards to the process of actually making a new burlesque number, it's different every time. Some of the shows I make take about four to six months to create if it's a real rush, but most of them take much longer. For instance, my newest act, The Opium Den, took about four years to complete because the set is very elaborate, the costume was intense to make, the hand props were difficult, and I had a hard time deciding how I wanted the show to play out, so I kept procrastinating on finishing it.

And the music presented a whole new challenge. I have all my show music custom made for me these days, and so for this Chinese themed show there was a chance to do something really unique with the music. It's very traditionally cinematic at the start, somewhat dark, then turns ultra sexy, then turns somewhat humorous with some real retro burlesque Chinese music.

For one of the songs I took The Cure's "Lullaby" and had it turned into this powerful and sexy Chinese song. People go wild over it when it kicks in, because you recognize it, and it's very powerful. I have this incredible music guy that I work with, he always manages to pull off my absurd ideas. He has the patience of a saint, which is vital when you're working with someone like me who has absolutely no musical vocabulary.

But every show I make is different and presents new challenges. The three new shows I made for The Crazy Horse were really fun because I got to work closely with the dancers to create shows with them, which I loved. I also recorded two songs for those shows. Singing was a whole new thing for me, but I got offered a record deal from it, which is hilarious to me because I'm really terrified of singing, probably because I hate the sound of my own voice.

NP: I understand your longtime friend Catherine D'Lish designs your costumes. I assume this must be quite a collaborative process. How does that work?

DVT: Well, she's a fabulous costume designer, and it was fun all those years when we would work together because we both had this obsession with Swarovski crystal and we would like to see how far we could take it, how many crystals could we get on a costume. I'm sponsored by Swarovski, so we were able to order all these extravagant custom-cut rhinestones in any color, shape and size we wanted, and she would have this amazing team working for her, like a family. It was great because, as a fellow performer, she knows how the costumes have to work, and could figure out inventive ways for the pieces to come off. Catherine has been performing herself a lot more these days, so she's been shifting focus on her own shows, so this year I decided to work with some other designers for the shows that I did at The Crazy Horse.

I worked with Christian Dior and Elie Saab on the gowns, and Mr. Pearl on the corsets, Stephen Jones did my headpieces, and Christian Louboutin made custom shoes for me. It was amazing to work closely with Elie Saab, he did three gowns made in the haute couture atelier in Paris. There was one insane moment where I asked for a swatch of the fabric one of the gowns was made of, this very fine almost invisible tulle that had silver beaded stars all over it. It's this long trailing beautiful gown [which has] miles of this gorgeous beaded tulle...So they come back with two things -- a piece of plain tulle and a bag of the beads. I had no idea that each and every bead -- hundreds of thousands of them -- was embroidered on by hand. It was amazing. That's what true haute couture is. I'm baffled by the details in the workmanship, and of course, shocked that I get to wear them onstage.

Right now I'm working with Mr. Pearl on a new costume. He's meticulous in his fittings, and has incredible taste, so it's nice to let it go and trust everything to him. It's all Swarovski jonquil, which is a beautiful canary yellow, and it's got tons of yellow curled ostrich. It's been in the works about two years now because the beadwork is very fine, and the fit of his corsets is beyond anything. Somehow he gets the tiniest waist you can imagine, but he makes the corsets out of this very fine mesh, so it's hardly there, and is like a second skin. Honestly, no one knows how he does it. That's why Jean Paul Gaultier and all the designers in Paris enlist him. No one can do what he does!

I'm baffled by the feel and the look of his corsets. I know that when I'm long gone, those corsets he has made for me are going to be the most important pieces of clothing I ever owned. He's a very good friend, and my Paris apartment is very near to him, so we have fittings and sip violet champagne. Mr. Pearl is obsessed with violets. He always brings me a little bunch of them and he smells of violet perfume. He's the most elegant man in existence!

NP: You've been so influential fashion-wise, bringing vintage and burlesque style into the mainstream. You've also designed a super-cute T for H&M for their Fashion Against Aids campaign and have a limited edition Wonderbra lingerie line. Do you have any other future projects clothing-wise?

DVT: I love working with Wonderbra. It's been a really great collaboration the past two years. I also have a signature stocking collection. I would really love to branch out into a clothing line, maybe a line that looks at my own vintage clothing collection and recreates some of those amazing lost designs.

NP: Could you see yourself devoting more of your life to fashion design down the line?

DVT: I would definitely like to continue working with lingerie, and if the right opportunity comes along that I feel I can put my name on and my energy into, and feel good about, yes, I would like to do more. But I'm careful about which things I lend my name to. I've been offered jeans campaigns, and obviously, that wouldn't make sense for me.

NP: Your frequently go en pointe in your shows and are seen wearing pink/red point shoes in the Bird of Paradise images. This question's for the ballet geek in me (SG actually has a ballet group). Are you traditional in your choice of pointe shoe? Or do you go for a little comfort and modern day technology with a Gaynor Minden type shoe?

DVT: I haven't been dancing on pointe as often as I used to. Somewhere along the way I started having high heels made as backup for all the shows I do on pointe, because I would get so nervous over "real" dancers being in the audience. At The Crazy Horse, all the Paris Opera Ballet stars came to see me, and that was daunting! But I still dance on pointe from time to time onstage, especially for my Powder Compact and Carousel show, and of course for the burlesque Swan Lake [The Black Swan].

And yes, I go for the Gaynor Mindens. A friend of mine with ABT [American Ballet Theatre] told me years ago that they would change my life and make me more stable onstage, and she was right. I've been dancing on pointe since I was 11 years old. I learned the right way the hard way and at this point, at 37, I don't need the extra suffering, and I like the extra flex Gaynors. But I would love to see the SG ballet troupe someday! You would love the music I had made, it's all the most famous parts of Swan Lake re-recorded in striptease big band style. It's hilariously genius!

NP: Do you still take ballet classes?

DVT: Yes, I just started up again the other day. My friend Liz Goldwyn, who also has a fabulous burlesque book called Pretty Things, brought me to a bitch of a Balanchine class. My inner thighs are on fire still! I also used to take private classes with a Russian teacher. I love the flamboyant Russian style. I'm always looking for ballet classes with funny teachers and live piano accompaniment.

NP: What else do you do to keep in shape?

DVT: I do a lot of Pilates. I work out with Mari Windsor in LA. She's amazing. I do that about 4-5 times a week. She has this amazing DVD every girl should have. It's a 20 minute butt and leg workout with a rubber band. I do it when I'm traveling. Sometimes I do yoga too, and then I also have a little trampoline that I take out in my house, and I run and dance on that thing to my favorite obnoxious dance music. It's a killer cardio workout. I love to eat you see, so I have to work out. I believe that variety is the key to keeping up the momentum and having a successful workout regime.

NP: At his point in your career, how many people do you have in your creative team?

DVT: Well, still no glam squad, no stylist, no hair/makeup team. I like being self-reliant in that way. I have a few favorite makeup and hair people that I work with on certain shoots, but I don't use a team for red carpet things or anything like that. I think independence is vital. But I have a manager, publicist, a prop wrangler, a personal assistant and a pet sitter, and I guess I have about three attorneys that specialize in different things. I guess that's not exactly a "creative" team. My manager is really the only one I work with on a creative level. I can't live without her. I can count on her for everything. When I'm making a new show, creatively, I usually think about the show and research and hire someone. For instance, I hired trip ropers for roping lessons for my cowgirl show, and I hired a bull rider to teach me how to ride my mechanical-bull lipstick, and yeah, I smoked opium the traditional way to "get a feel" for my Opium Den show. Research!

NP: Your shows -- and the photos in Stripteese -- feature elaborate props. Who designs and builds them?

DVT: I work with a few different prop makers. I go to different people for different kinds of projects. I have my favorite welders, foam sculptors, etc... I'm very involved in the creation of the props, and I do a lot of the cosmetic work on them too. Most of the glitters and rhinestones I do myself. It's therapeutic.

NP: My singing teacher always said you should "f*** the lighting guy." I think he was being a little OTT (he was rather theatrical and flamboyant), but it sure helps if you're nice to them. In performance (and life) so much is about the lighting. Any tips?

DVT: Oh yeah, well I agree. Lighting is so important and I cringe when I see how little attention is paid to burlesque show lighting. I learned a lot at The Crazy Horse in Paris. They're the masters at lighting naked women to perfection. So when I was performing there, I would keep a sketchpad and draw diagrams of the lighting during rehearsals, and make friends with the lighting team and ask lots of questions. Lighting can make or break you, and beautiful, artistic light is what makes a show look grand and beautiful.

I get really excited when I'm at venues with exciting lighting rigs! And although I don't go so far as to "f*** the lighting guy," as your friend suggested, I have been known to send gifts and notes and to hang out with them and "ooh" and "aah" over their talents to show my gratitude. I did a show with someone recently who was dreadful to the crew, and I watched first hand what happens when you throw attitude. Those lighting guys aged her ass 20 years! So yes, make friends with the lighting guy!

The key is light that comes from all angles, especially from underneath and sides. You have to fill the ass with light. No white light, no red light, ever. And speaking of lighting, I always have good lighting in my house too. Dimmer switches in every room!

NP: You have a DVD of your Crazy Horse residency coming out. I know in the past you've said that you don't like to film your shows, but after watching the Bettie Page movie the other night it made me feel sad that so much of her work was destroyed under pressure from the government. Your work has been captured for posterity -- and, unlike Bettie, you own or get royalties from most of it. That's got to be a big upside right?

DVT: Yeah, I get funny about being filmed, for a few reasons. It's hard to capture the feeling that one gets when watching a live show, and also I'm not so willing to just hand over these shows that I put all my own money and time and heart and soul into, so it's rare that I come to an agreement that works for me and makes it worthwhile. But I've been filming more of my shows lately. Besides the Crazy Horse DVD, I filmed some shows I did at the Casino de Paris too, which is the big stage Josephine Baker and Mistinguett danced on. I filmed my Opium Den act and some others on that grand stage, and will probably release some of that footage next year.

NP: Burlesque is shrouded with such a rich history, and performing at such a historic venue must add a whole new dimension to your work. What have you learnt while working at The Crazy Horse?

DVT: The Crazy Horse is amazing. It's so cool to be backstage with those girls, they're incredible talents, and they work so hard. They're like racehorses! So beautiful. The Crazy Horse has been open since 1951, and the list of famous people that have been there to see that show is just mind-boggling. Everyone from Marilyn Monroe, Gypsy Rose Lee, Salvador Dali, Mae West, lots of US presidents.

It's a very special place. The girls are so disciplined. They get weighed in weekly to keep their ideal weight that is set for them. They're drop-dead gorgeous, and insanely talented dancers. And the best part is that they all get along, like a team. I spent a lot of time working with them and I love them so much.

It was daunting to go in there the first time. I was the first guest star ever to come in there, so they were rather suspicious of me at first. But I insisted on not having special treatment, and I worked hard, and we discovered a mutual admiration for each other. I don't have nearly the kind of dance training they have, but they would come to me for advice on other aspects of performing, and they would always come to see my other shows around Paris. I have great friendships with many of the girls. I think they are extraordinary, and I'm glad that The Crazy Horse is seeing a revival. I'm their biggest fan. I think it's the best show ever!

NP: Will there be more Dita shows at the Crazy Horse in 2010?

DVT: I'm most likely going to bring the show I did in Paris, the one that's on the DVD, to the Las Vegas Crazy Horse at The MGM Grand sometime in 2010. It's a much different show than the one I did there a few years ago. It's much more elaborate and I do three full numbers instead of just one. And I am also in the process of thinking of the new acts I want to do in Paris for another run.

The thing is that none of my existing shows fit on that intimate stage, so I have to create special shows for their stage. The Crazy Horse is like being in a movie. The audience can see every little gesture. It's much different than the burlesque I usually perform on big stages, and most of my stage props are too tall to fit on that stage. The Crazy Horse stage is a little more than 6 feet tall to make the girls look very tall. They're all between 5'8 and 5'10.

NP: I understand you've recently moved to Paris. Is it really one of the most romantic cities in the world?

DVT: I love it. It's beautiful. I've traveled the world and I still can't find anything nearly as beautiful. I love the architecture and the pride that Parisians have in their city. I've been living there part-time, and I love the challenges that being in a new country presents. I love the ways that it also makes me appreciate America too. There are great things about both places. It's changed my life to have a place in Paris in addition to my place in Los Angeles. I'm really happy that I finally did it. I realized one day when I was talking to an old friend from 15 years ago; I mentioned I wanted to live in Paris and he reminded me I said that way back when. So I was like, "What am I waiting for? Why am I afraid?" I just did it. And it's not always easy, but I like the independence it makes me feel.

NP: What are some of your favorite haunts? And why?

DVT: In Paris? There are so many restaurants I love. There's La Perouse, which is probably the sexiest, most romantic restaurant ever. It's a very old, antique historic place. You can book these private little rooms, and the waiter rings a bell before entering the room, so you have total privacy in this plush little antique salon. The antique mirrors are still on the walls that bear engravings where ladies checked to see if the diamonds they were gifted were authentic. It's the best place to seduce and be seduced, and the food is delicious too.

I also frequent a restaurant and bar called Mathis. I saw Yves Saint Laurent there before he passed away. It's the place to be in Paris, very elegant and the food is divine. I also love to go to a brasserie called Bofinger where I order plates of oysters and bulots. For bars, I usually go to a place called Montana, or The Hemingway Bar at The Ritz. I love to go buy my tea and have lunch at Mariages Freres in the afternoons, and for late night dining after shows I go to a place called Poule Au Pot. They have a gold plaque with my name at my table because I was there every night after The Crazy Horse!

In LA, I don't go out very often. I go to Chateau Marmont sometimes, but mostly I'm a homebody. I go to bed early and wake up early. I like having the days in LA. I also spend a lot of time in my favorite traditional Korean spas in Korea town. My favorite one is open 24 hours and I go there for three hour long massages and scrubs. It's cheap and fabulous. And I love to just disappear and sit there with all the girls and watch Korean soap operas.

NP: You wrote a chapter on stripping in my friend Carrie Borzillo's book Cherry Bomb in which you wrote that when stripping one-on-one for someone special you should also "tease him with your words." Are you a fan of sexting too? And, if so, has it ever got you in trouble?

DVT: Oh yes, I love sexy-texting! But I'm also a good a love-lust letter writer. I write with rose-scented red ink on my personal stationery. A stranger recently tried to blackmail me to buy back some love letters I wrote to a boyfriend 15 years ago, and I said, "Feel free to sell them on eBay if you want. What do I care if people find out that I'm romantic!"

That's one downfall of fame, I get lots of people that want to extort money from me to buy things that they think -- hope -- will be scandalous for me. Really, what could be scandalous for me? I'm a burlesque dancer!

I really don't write anything I would be embarrassed of anyway, and I only sexy-message with my beau, and he's even more discreet about his privacy than I am. I never sexy-texted with guys I was casually dating. Trust is important. And again, I don't think it's a big scandal for a burlesque dancer to get caught sexy texting!

NP Being sexy is a lot of fun, but as we peel the layers off we all just want to feel secure and loved. What makes you feel loved and secure?

DVT: My very closest friends, the friends I've had for twenty years. And my family. It's nice to be around the people I don't have to keep up any image for, that I can trust with everything.

NP: Having had a romance very much in the public eye, are you keen to keep your private life private at this point? And how possible is that?

DVT: It's really difficult. There's only so much you can do. Right now, I'm trying to preserve the privacy of a fairly new relationship, but it's not easy between relentless journalists that won't let you get away with not discussing personal things, and then there's paparazzi. Sometimes pictures pop up on the internet and we had no idea whatsoever that we were being followed and photographed, and that's an odd feeling.

But I accept that people want to know. I know that personally, I don't like reading endless interviews from actors that refuse to discuss anything but their acting craft. It's boring. You have to give a little something.

NP: I interviewed your ex, Marilyn Manson, recently. We had an hour-long conversation, during which he repeatedly talked about the loss he felt after past relationships and the trouble he's had dealing with it. I also have another friend going through a tough divorce right now. What advice would you give when it comes to moving on and the mental adjustments you need to make to make that happen?

DVT: It's funny because I've been some kind of divorce counselor for a few of my girlfriends that are going through it now. One of my friends wants me to write a book with my little mantras and pearls of wisdom. I'm full of them! I guess the best advice I have is to accept the pain and to know that it's part of the risk we take in loving. Inevitably we learn from heartbreak and we recover, and hopefully emerge ready to become a better partner for someone new.

In the midst of a hellacious heartbreak, I work my ass off to stay occupied, and I try to imagine myself further down the line when I'm right again, and in love again. I've been through enough heartache to know that we don't ever die from it, and we always find someone better suited to us. And I personally force myself to think hard about what I did wrong and try to get my revenge by being a better person for someone new. My revenge is always based in living well and trying to be better. It works every single time!

NP: What do you look for in a relationship now? And how has that changed as you grow older and wiser?

DVT: I guess I've just realized that I want to be with someone that inspires me to want to be a better person, and that feels the same way. No one is perfect, so it's up to us to choose the things that are OK and the things that are not. I'm not perfect. I'm just looking for someone who can accept my crazy, and I can accept theirs. I know which things I will no longer accept in my relationships, and I'm not afraid to say no anymore. I know that I'm wiser about a lot of things in love, and I'm grateful for all the experiences, good and bad.

NP: How do you find new inspiration and happiness in your life?

DVT: Well, I enjoy what I do for a living, and I like to keep trying new things and challenging myself. I don't have trouble finding inspiration, it's just finding ways to execute the ideas. That's usually where the frustration lies. As far as happiness, well, I think of it as being like the weather, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, [but] you can't appreciate the good weather without the bad.

NP: You have an upcoming film project, Mata Hari (written by Martha Fiennes). Can you talk a little about this?

DVT: Well, it's just a script right now. It's not actually in production. It's an amazing script, and I would love to play Mata Hari, especially because the other Mata Hari films were hardly factual, and this script sets the record straight on her. I don't really have any interest in acting unless it's in films I would actually like to see, so I pass on most of the acting projects that come my way. I really like being true to myself and doing what I do. I have no problem being content to be a burlesque dancer. I didn't do it as a stepping stone to "bigger" things, I did it because I love it.

NP: Stripteese will make an excellent Christmas gift. What's on your Xmas list?

DVT: Mostly I love Christmas because I like seeing my friends and family, and being home for a change, and baking cookies and entertaining. But when it comes to gifts, I really like sentimental gifts, or things I use all the time, like teacups and martini shakers, vintage picture frames, scented candles. It's easy when you look around my house and see all the stuff I collect. Just stop by an antique store and pick up some silly trinket and I'm happy!


Stripteese is available from Amazon.com and all fine booksellers.

Meet Dita at her two Los Angeles book signing events: Friday December 18 @ Hennessey and Ingalls at Space 15 Twenty (7 PM), and Sunday December 20 @ at Revamp Vintage (2 PM).

For more information on Dita's appearances, performances, books, DVDs and lingerie go to Dita.net.