2 documentaries that both genders should watch should watch

Not trying to jump on you, Morgan, but applying rape culture arguments to this discussion is like trying to inject Marx's theories about the alienation of labor into a discussion with a tax lawyer about this year's refund. Not to put words in Quasi's mouth, but I'm taking from the tenor of his comments that he does not subscribe to rape culture, and to be frank, he doesn't sound like the kind of guy who is capable of following through with it even if he did. It's germane in a larger, broader argument about "who holds the power in relationships", but the discussion we are having here and now regarding Quasimodo is not really that discussion.

Its ok.

I fail when it comes to getting my point accross on the interwebs anyways, even reading back over what I put I couldnt articulate exactly what was in my head. If it was face to face spoken conversation I am sure it would have gone much differently but as it stands just chalk it up to me being conversationally challenged when it comes to the written word and put me on ignore or dont, or just dont pay attention to me and lets all just go on with our lives.

Missed the edit-

I would also like to apologize for steering a thread that I posted with good intentions in a retarded tangent.

Well, I guess it would be like someone saying (for whatever inexplicable reason) that they felt like home residents had "all the power" about deciding who could come into their home, and you angrily retorted:

"Oh yeah? You're forgetting about Armed Home Invasion Culture!"

While your point is arguably technically correct, it entirely misses the point of why he said what he said in the first place.

I want hear how this story illustrates your point

So, I went to this big event last weekend.

And there was this hot chick I met who was accompanying another hot chick as a plus-one.

And I was saying to this hot chick she should join SG, and she was all "Yeah, but I'm not as hot as those chicks!"

And I was all "But hey, you're like all way hot and stuff!"

And she was like "Nuh-uh!"

And I was like "Yuh!"

And the point was meant to be that however much one guy builds up in his head that he is powerless and women are in control, it isn't going to play like that to many individual women, even one who is demonstrably gorgeous.

But the guy I was going to tell that story just got yelled at by a bunch of people so the moment's been lost.

Thank you.

Seriously!

"Don't you have a history of letting people into your home?"

"Come on, with those locks you were really asking for it."

"Are you sure you clearly expressed your wish for fifteen strangers with assault rifles not to camp in your living room?"

Pardon me for being late to this thread, but here's my observation.

What often happens is that certain sensitive topics becomes mantras for particular groups. Then everything gets instantly filtered through that lens. A worthwhile endeavor succumbs to navel-gazing and tunnel vision, in spite of good intentions.

For example, third-wave Feminists constantly harp on informed consent and rape culture. It is true that the former is essential and the latter simply isn't understood by most people, but eventually one sounds a bit like a skipping record. And I ought to know, since as many have pointed out, I am inclined to consistently forget that I've repeated something, and bring up the same subject constantly.

We're all, each of us, flawed creatures. We hold everyone, especially ourselves, to this impossibly high standard that no one can ever reach. I suppose I'd be more inclined to believe that we should forgive each other for being imperfect, but that starts with us first before it can be applied to anyone else.

What did metaphors ever do to you?

Really?? This statement infuriates me beyond belief. I agree that some statements in this thread regarding consent may have been a bit of a stretch but your example of "third-wave Feminists CONSTANTLY HARP(ing) on informed consent and rape culture", just sent me through the roof.

Pardon me, but I can't stand dudes who constantly harp on reducing a movement into a cliche that disempowers it regardless of the point he is trying to make.

Is honesty disempowering? I may be male, but I still can look at things objectively.

No need to be enraged. I didn't reduce the movement to a cliche. Well-intentioned people did. The problem is that the people in support of the movement often take a reductionist perspective that doesn't do anyone any favors. We often don't talk about rape culture beyond "Rape is bad, people who rape need to be punished, and isn't it awful that they aren't" It's much more complex and encapsulates our entire society, plus the institutionalized elements that are insidious and often difficult to discern.

The irony is that as many anti-feminists reduce Feminism to a cliche, so too do many Feminists reduce rape culture to a cliche. Again, there's no reason to be angry at me or anyone. I know you're intelligent enough to know that rape culture is a tremendously complex matter that doesn't just end with the act itself.

The problem and reason I have such a bad taste in my mouth is you aren't being "honest" nor are you being "objective" I would say you were making a hasty generalization.

Which you do again when you state "We often don't talk about rape culture beyond, "Rape is bad, people who rape need to be punished, and isn't it awful that they aren't".

Also, please don't tell me if I'm intelligent enough or not. Within this context it seems extremely condescending.

I apologize if what I said regarding your intelligence came across as condescending. I merely meant to highlight that you clearly are someone who thinks deeply about this matter and I knew I was addressing an equal. I know there's an unfortunate precedent whereby men believe women don't know what they're talking about in any context. That's not what I think.

Sometimes it's all in how you say it.

My own experiences color my perspective on this subject. I'm echoing the words and observations of other Feminists. I really have observed in my own life what happens when people are so motivated to eradicate a societal evil that they don't take into account the full picture. Rape culture, as I alluded to before, filters into everyone's life, but we so rarely confront the big picture part of it. It's important that we educate people about the obvious, but there also comes a time where we need to look deep within ourselves and our own prejudices.

If this were a discussion on race, for example, it would be be one thing to talk about person-to-person prejudice and bigotry. But if we were really inclined to confront it head on, we'd talk about the cultural attitudes that many of us carry inside us and may not even realize.

The next time some notable figure gets accused of rape, or rape becomes a national issue, observe how we discuss it as a society. It probably won't go much further than "rape is bad, people who rape are bad, they need to be punished, and isn't it awful when they don't." That's what needs to change.

and i forsee this thread grinding down to swift halt.

what were we talking about?

I take it you've never heard of Ben Roethlisberger?

So a thread about penis and vagina self image and cosmetic surgery is somehow related to rape culture and third wave feminism?

Yeah, I can see that.