NEWS: Et Tu, Peter Sagal?

GEEK: Et Tu, Peter Sagal?

Oh, Peter Sagal. Has thou forsaken us?

I am thirty-five. And married with a daughter. I’m a grownup who thinks about car payments and deadlines and vacuuming and the horrible state of the economy. And I am also a card-carrying, proud, never-deny-it, geek.

Of course, as I have been writing this column for close to a year, this should not surprise you, dear reader. I just felt the need to say it.

I’ve been a geek for many, many years. I have always loved sci-fi and fantasy, but squashed it a bit in high school to fit in and be cool. (I failed.) I never became comfortable with myself till I accepted that yeah, I like robots and RPGs and Star Wars and Star Trek and zombies and Cthulhu and superheroes.

Notice. I say I “like.” Not I “liked.” Tense is important.

I grew up in the mountains of North Carolina. I read L’Engle, Hickman and Saberhagen (and even wrote some Lost Swords fanfic before I knew what fanfic was). I had an Atari and a Commodore 64, and access to a Ms Pac-Man machine at the local gas station where my dad would take me as a reward for good grades. Being geeky kept me sane and kept my imagination strong. Reading and experiencing these magical worlds encouraged me to steal my mom’s word processor and start banging out my first novels and short stories at age twelve.

I’m not alone. My social circle consists mostly of geeks, people who understand me and are passionate about the same things. I married a geek. We are all adults, taxpayers, parents. People who can debate politics with one breath and when exactly Heroes jumped the shark with the next.

We are not losers. We shower regularly. We are aware of current events. We are productive members of society. And, Peter Sagal, one of us is even the president.

I truly love finding out that famous people, the pop culture icons that we look up to, are geeks too. Vin Diesel role plays. Stephen Colbert can recite Tom Bombadil lyrics on the spot from memory. And, Peter, you yourself had a bona-fide geekgasm when Leonard Nimoy appeared on Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me!.

I love Wait, Wait for its snarky tone and Sagal’s charisma. Only in recent years did I discover he was a geek, which made me like it more. Although I admit it does make me raise my eyebrows when he mocks geeks, apparently going for the “smelly guy in his mom’s basement” cliche for a cheap laugh, which has happened on WWDTM more than once. If you’re going to mock us, mock us for the real stuff: obsessive comic book bagging, boarding and boxing instead of reading, or the incessant “let me tell you about my character” virus that spreads throughout RPG circles.

The blog post in question was in response to an essay about how he spent his geeky childhood reading Lord of the Rings and letting his Hobbit-inspired imagination run wild, and worries about how his daughters are spending their childhoods, looking at various flickering screens. It sounded like he is grumbling, “Kids these days… when I was a boy, we didn’t HAVE video games or the Internet, we read the books and we LIKED IT.”

Are you trying to be what you think an adult is supposed to be; are you squashing what you are in order to fit a mold? You claim to have "geek cred" but then you put down all you've learned. So what if Elvish or Klingon aren't "useful"? Did you learn about the dangers of over-surveilance in 1984? Did you learn about appreciating the simple things from life in the Shire in LoTR? And hell, what were Spider-Man and Buffy the Vampire Slayer but metaphors for how high school can really suck and be overwhelming -- and how the gift of magic bullet-like superpowers wouldn't just fix everything? Read sci-fi short stories from the 1940's and see if you can determine what the people in the real world were thinking about nuclear radiation. A lot of speculative fiction is just a slightly tilted mirror of our own world, commenting on it.

And by the way, I look at what our heroes faced in The Two Towers and think, gee, maybe my bad afternoon with a burned dinner and cranky kiddo isn't so hard to deal with. So yeah, Tolkien did teach me a thing about parenting.

Upon hearing Zach Ricks' latest Geek Survival Guide podcast (fabulously funny advice that you’ll probably never need -- although this episode was dealing with how non-geeks treat geeks, so it had some more solid advice alongside the usual topics such as army ants, vampires, and gremlins), my six-year-old daughter piped up that she was definitely a Pokemon geek, also a Star Wars geek. Yeah, she plays the games on her DS, but only for a limited time every day. When her time is up, she leaves the little flickering screen, runs upstairs, puts on a costume, and plays Darth Vader. Or another costume lets her be a karate master. Or she goes to the kitchen table to draw up her own Pokemon, complete with name and special powers and evolutions. She has an unwavering ambition to be an inventor and has promised me a set of Boba Fett armor, complete with jetpack. We are raising a little geek, and I am absolutely thrilled.

And you know, since my husband and I are geeks too, we can understand her Pokemon comments, and play Lego Star Wars with her, and discuss how Darth Vader eats if he has his helmet on all the time. Another way being geeky has helped our parenting.

By all the gods of mythology, Peter, why do they "have to"? Where is that rule? Why say farewell? So they can make room for baseball and soap operas and needlepoint, obsessions and interests that are oh so much more relevant to adults than our brand of geek? You can still understand the real world and enjoy speculative fiction.

And what if one of your daughters grows up to create the next D&D? Or to write the next Sandman? Or to direct the next Dark Knight? Will you then wish she had left the “childish things” behind?

It was your geekiness that made your Leonard Nimoy interview so damn good, and I’m willing to bet it’s the geek in your personality that’s made me such a fan for ten years. But I have to admit, your talk of wishing you had been less geeky in the past breaks my heart just a little bit, Peter. Geeks have enough trouble defending ourselves, it actively hurts us to have someone act like their once geeky life was a waste of time.

Really, all I can say to you is, "SoH DIchDaq jatlh SoH 'oH QoS!" (Or, if you prefer, in Elvish, "O shor mae O eisi mysia.")


Mur Lafferty is an author and podcaster who recently released her first novel, Playing For Keeps. She Speaks Geek every month on SuicideGirls.com. Click HERE for more of Mur's musings.

I loved this article! We need more "geek thinking" and less conformity!

geekness has gotten me where i am in life... and i love it

The best part about being an old school computer geek? Now the people who used to make fun of me for it have to pay me a lot of money to fix their computers.

Personally, I think this was one of the greatest geek moments of the last several months.

Man, no kidding. And Gaiman said on Twitter that they hadn't rehearsed the conversation, that he really did come up with that on the spot. *amazing*

I don't think I've heard of Peter Sagal before, but this article is excellent anyway.

Wonderful article. Free those imaginations! let kids be kids.

That was moment that I said 'not only is this man much more funny than me but he is a bigger geek' I am deeply humbled by a man both cooler and more geeky than I will ever be.

I think I get what Peter Sagal is saying. In a way, by writing books and producing things, you're doing exactly what he's talking about. I think so much of geek culture is considered childish (or not-adult) not because of what it's about, but because so much of it is built upon consuming things and not creating them. Getting the latest video games, buying the full set of Star Wars action figures, learning a made-up language just for the sake of learning it.

I don't think one has to give up being a geek or being interested in "geeky" things in order to be an adult, but the way you appreciate it and involve yourself in can change and become more productive.

...in other words, I think that by doing those things, (like Peter Sagal creating a geek game show) you would, by definition, be leaving "childish things" behind. I guess I'm thinking it's the behavior that is childish, not the things.

i agree 100%. it's even evident in this discussion: some guy demonstrating nothing other than the fact that he's read the lord of the rings way too many times really qualifies as a high-point of geekdom?

Yeah, but if you were an old school D&D geek, no one's paying you to fix their Halfling.

oh god, the colbert thing. that was one of the greatest moments I've ever seen on television. I was stunned, I practically passed out. dragging myself to the computer, "must... email... everybody..."

I, too, think is exactly what Sagal was talking about. In fact, I think he'd have similar concerns about people who do things like insist on seeing *every* hockey game in week or memorize baseball stats. It's a similar obsession with minutia over lived experience that he's really talking about.

In other words: playing D&D is fun and creative. Learning Elvish is weirdly obsessive.

that is definitively a high point of geekdom. just what do you think a geek is, anyway?

this, exactly.

I think I need to frequent your writing much more often.

This has made my day.

On a random note; [enter rant]

I always found it funny that Tolkien's writing, whether past or present, reflected/reflects in some way how the world was/is turning around us. There are a TON of comparative essays and crap written that take a look at the concepts of his book, specifically war and personal strife, that reflect past and present events in history. I always thought he wrote his books [as I read my fantasy fiction;] as an escape from reality. His reality, and his World's reality, at the time they were written. That's the main reason I delve into the realm of fantasy and [more currently] sci-fi. It gets me away from all the everyday bullshit, but at the same time, leaves a soft little knock at the door-of-reality in the back of my head. Subtle reminders, comparisons, whatever.

I consider myself a closet nerd, and find it laughable when I meet people who .. for example, could hang out with me for months on end, and as soon as they find out I'm interested in fantasy fiction, mmorpg's, whatever, they judge me instantaneously and cease all forms of contact, like I'm a plague. But then I find people who, willingly, try to force the nerd in me OUT. And I love it. I don't appear to be a nerd [obviously, judging by my non-existent profile pictures], or so I like to tell myself, and I don't like to talk about it mainly because of how it's received by others. But I love it. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Its given me grounds to push my painting and drawing, and even sit down and write flushed out 'novels', that eventually go unfinished.

More to the point;

The most entertaining thing for me right now, as you say, is discovering celebrities and famous figures who are geeks/nerd, whatever you want to call them. Secretly. Off the screen, out of headphones, whatever. There are so many, and I think it's awesome. That's the one thing I love about playing MMO videogames; discovering all those people who you wouldn't normally consider as people to play or do those kinds of 'geeky' things. It's a community in itself, and it shines. I find no reason to be ashamed of that.

Some people wield footballs or lacrosse sticks [I love lacrosse]. If I had a choice, I'd wield a battle axe the size of someone's mother, with a fat glass of mead, and sit and shit-talk war stories with buddies, instead of wielding clothing hangers and security tags like I currently do at work. I guess I have my guitar and pints of Guinness for the moment. Those will suffice. Perhaps.

Kudos.

I own up to my geeky but I think if I had my teenage years to go over again, I would attempt to be less shy, withdrawn, and painfully introverted. Perhaps there were no two ways around it--I would have been exactly the same--- and playing "what if" is counter-productive. There's nothing I did then that I lament. They made me what I am today and as the poster noted, they were my respite from a world that simply didn't understand me.

I never engaged in the geekiest of geeky pursuits, not because I felt smugly superior, but I just didn't get them. My geeky was best expressed in being a literature snob, a music geek, and having an encyclopedic knowledge of a wide variety of different subjects. But I found as I got older that being a geek was transformed from a badge of shame into a life skill. With time I became more comfortable in my own skin and more confident in my own abilities. Painful though it was to grow up the square peg, I don't begrudge it anymore. I've processed it and come out stronger.

I owe my survival and my sanity to my years of RPGs, computers, and comic books. My life was never hard because I was geek. Being a geek is what made my life bearable, and in some cases, helped me survive it at all.

i'm not saying it isn't geeky. i just don't get what's so awesome or praise-worthy about it.

I never really desired to be popular. I enjoyed the things I enjoyed for perfectly good reasons, and the popular kids were into things that just plain weren't interesting and a lot of them were jerks anyway (or at least jerks to me), so why would I want to emulate them. Shunning geeky things wouldn't have gotten them to lay off me - I'd still have been too smart, too shy, too funnily dressed, or whatever else to fit in. It just would have made things suck more.

But yes, I definitely love finding out secret geekery. Obama's comics collection or Vin Diesel's D&D habit make me very happy. On the other hand, it's neat that Colbert's that into LOTR, but it's not surprising to me. Both he and Jon Stewart are exactly the sort of people I expect to be geeks. Muscle-bound action movie stars with shaved heads, not so much.

I never really thought that I was geeky at all. But recently is has come to my attention that I am quite geeky, and im damn proud!

I think Peter Segel fell into that terrible Gollumlike trap of selfish adulthood, the moment of realization that happens when someone forsakes the imagination and inquisitiveness of their youth while simultaneously (and perhaps unknowingly) conceding to becoming old. While I can understand why Peter might look wistfully upon his past geekiness, it seems ludicrous to dismiss such youthful peccadilloes with melancholic abandonment. If he feels he somehow cheated himself by missing out on the "real world" because he was busy being distracted by his imagination, then sadly, his ship has truly sailed on.

Bon Voyage Mr. Segal. I hope your sense of humor can keep the S.S. Fogey afloat because you've just cast all the lifeboats adrift with every RPGer, LOTR fan and Trekkie (including your own inner-geek) aboard. If ever you feel the need, just turn your keel around and steer towards the horizon, we'll always be there for you, should you need us.

For him to suddenly get hung-up on the latest crop of tech-savvy geeks is also kind of silly considering the medium he's using to communicate his dissatisfaction with (online and in a blog!) Anyways, whether he likes it or not, he's sort of a king among geeks (come on, it is NPR after all). Doesn't he know that he's alienating some of his regular audience my letting it all hang out like that (to think, some of us still listen to the radio in this day and age).

His opinion is his opinion, but what I find bizarre is his transition from the youthful nostalgia of his original All Things Considered opinion to the almost self-chastising tone for his past youthfulness within his blog. I actually identify with him on quite a few levels (seeing the fields of my hometown leveled before the infectious march of red-tiled tract homes blighted the countryside), reading Sci-Fi, comics, playing the first video games, etc. And while I never learned to speak elvish, I did play one in both RPG and live-action RPG realms (it doesn't quite get more fun or geekier then that - today's video gamers are just the next technological step in such role playing geekiness). I can also agree with his lamenting the transition of the LOTR series into the mass marketing venture it has become, I also see where it has drawn an entire generation to rediscover the literary roots of such classics to enjoy by actually reading them. The lessons of fellowship, greed and sacrifice are all wonderful examples such literature provide, and if they also manage to spark the imagination among the readers, young and old, then they are better for it.

Oh, and if you manage to return to this thread Mr. Segel, I'll gladly and shamelessly retract everything I've said if you can just get Carl Kassel to do my voice message for me.