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mat8drb

mat8drb

United Kingdom
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 11:50 AM

Los Alamos National Laboratory, home of the Manhattan Project gets all the fun science. After all, what's better than sitting around and analysing 300,000 sporting events to work out which one is the most exciting? The result: soccer is the best, American Football is the worst.

Eli Ben-Naim, Sidney Redner and Federico Vazquez at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico decided to look at unpredictability of results - how often a team with a worse record overcomes an apparently superior one - as the best measure of how exciting a league is. "If there are no upsets, then every game is predictable and hence boring," says Ben-Naim.

The team analysed results from more than 300,000 games over the last century from the US's national hockey, football, baseball and basketball leagues and the top English football league. Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US. Their results showed that the "upset frequency" was highest for soccer, followed by baseball, hockey, basketball and finally American football.



The report shows that the underdog won 45% of the time in soccer, but just 36% of the time in American Football. This doesn't mean that NFL games are the least competitive, as the methodology doesn't take into account the relatively short length of the NFL season. Indeed, NFL games are becoming more completive and soccer less.

However, English soccer has become a bit more predictable since the 1940s, when the underdog won 48% of the games. This suggests that the top teams are getting stronger at the expense of weaker ones--a trend notably accelerated once the economics of the game were changed by the abolition of the individual salary cap on players in the 1960s and the subsequent impact of big TV money on the game.

American football, in contrast, has become a bit less predictable over the same period. The underdog won only 31% of the time in the 1940s and 1950s. The NFL, more than any other professional sport, has pushed to regulate parity between its teams. On the basis of this Los Alamos research, that may have been smart marketing strategy, as the NFL has almost closed a six-point excitement gap with basketball and cut soccer's lead in half.



In the last fifteen years, the NFL has made introduced a salary cap and has retained the excellent draft system. By contrast, salaries in European football have kept rising, where a defender who gets a nine month drug ban can command $170,000 a week. This piece of science may add some circumstantial evidence to the UK Sport Minister's call for the introduction of a salary cap.

*Editor's note: They have obviously never watched playoff hockey.*

TheSinner

TheSinner

Seattle, WA
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 12:45 PM

I love watching both sports. But I like soccer better for what that is worth...

priapus

priapus

I'm lost
January 2004

JAN 10, 2006 12:50 PM

Fuck them both and watch rugby.



Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



And yet the Rugby World Cup attracts more worldwide viewership than the Soccer World Cup or the NFL's Stupor Bowl.



[Edited on Jan 10, 2006 by priapus]

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 12:50 PM


The result: soccer is the best, American Football is the worst.



You know, maybe this science stuff is overrated afterall.
wink

priapus

priapus

I'm lost
January 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:03 PM

ClubsBabyJesus said:

priapus said:
Fuck them both and watch rugby.




I was second to the scene, it seems.



Better late than never. At least you're on the right side. wink

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:04 PM

mat8drb said:
Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



Odd that they included soccer then.

Seriously, an upset isn't the only thing that makes a sport exciting. And if upsets happen roughly half the time in soccer, how can you call them upsets any more?

mat8drb

mat8drb

United Kingdom
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:11 PM

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:
Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



Odd that they included soccer then.


Yeah, I didn't get that, because I'd be shocked if it was any higher than the fifth most popular sport in the U.S. In my jaded view of America, the first four team sports must be football, basketball, baseball and hockey. But it is more popular in the U.S. than rugby or cricket. What other "major" national leagues are there? (All I know of is NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS and the Baseball one).

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:15 PM

mat8drb said:

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:
Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



Odd that they included soccer then.


Yeah, I didn't get that, because I'd be shocked if it was any higher than the fifth most popular sport in the U.S. In my jaded view of America, the first four team sports must be football, basketball, baseball and hockey. But it is more popular in the U.S. than rugby or cricket. What other "major" national leagues are there? (All I know of is NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS and the Baseball one).



NASCAR is more popular.

beaten to the punch.

[Edited on Jan 10, 2006 by mamet]

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

JAN 10, 2006 01:15 PM

Was there really a point to this study?

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:16 PM

mat8drb said:

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:
Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



Odd that they included soccer then.


Yeah, I didn't get that, because I'd be shocked if it was any higher than the fifth most popular sport in the U.S. In my jaded view of America, the first four team sports must be football, basketball, baseball and hockey. But it is more popular in the U.S. than rugby or cricket. What other "major" national leagues are there? (All I know of is NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS and the Baseball one).


To be honest, hockey is doing very poorly here too. In addition to the leagues you mentioned, I'd include the WNBA, as well as the PGA (which probably has better TV numbers than either hockey or soccer).

EDIT-Yes, Nascar too. And the US Tennis association.

[Edited on Jan 10, 2006 by PointBlank]

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:18 PM

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:
Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



Odd that they included soccer then.


Yeah, I didn't get that, because I'd be shocked if it was any higher than the fifth most popular sport in the U.S. In my jaded view of America, the first four team sports must be football, basketball, baseball and hockey. But it is more popular in the U.S. than rugby or cricket. What other "major" national leagues are there? (All I know of is NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS and the Baseball one).


To be honest, hockey is doing very poorly here too. In addition to the leagues you mentioned, I'd include the WNBA, as well as the PGA (which probably has better TV numbers than either hockey or soccer).

EDIT-Yes, Nascar too. And the US Tennis association.

[Edited on Jan 10, 2006 by PointBlank]



I'm sure the PGA definitely does. I'd be curious to see the numbers on the WNBA, though. That one I'm not so sure about.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:18 PM

Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:19 PM

PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge

mat8drb

mat8drb

United Kingdom
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:21 PM

hadees said:
Was there really a point to this study?


Good way of doing some Monte Carloing?

ClubsBabyJesus said:

NASCAR MAN!!!

*waves redneck flag*



I knew NASCAR, but it wouldn't work with this, as it's not a team sport (i.e. in the sense that there are two opposing sides). It has to be one of those for this study to work.

priapus

priapus

I'm lost
January 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:22 PM

mamet said:

PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge



So is McDonald's, but the food still sucks.

I'm a drag racing fan, but I'm sure the NHRA is way down in the rankings, and the IHRA isn't even on the radar screen.

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:22 PM

ClubsBabyJesus said:

mamet said:

PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge



HUGE

...and the fastest growing "sport" in America, as the southernas point out EVERY fucking time it's brought up.



I didn't mean it like that. I don't even watch it, honest. frown

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:24 PM

mat8drb said:
I knew NASCAR, but it wouldn't work with this, as it's not a team sport (i.e. in the sense that there are two opposing sides). It has to be one of those for this study to work.



Perhaps not in the strict sense they applied here, but it ios every bit a "team" sport.

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:25 PM

priapus said:

mamet said:

PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge



So is McDonald's, but the food still sucks.



Well, I wasn't trying to make a judgement based on its quality; merely its popularity.

mat8drb

mat8drb

United Kingdom
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:26 PM

I know Nascar's a team sport, but it needs two opposing teams with a chance of victory each. Nascar has more than that.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:29 PM

ClubsBabyJesus said:

mamet said:

PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge



HUGE

...and the fastest growing "sport" in America, as the southernas point out EVERY fucking time it's brought up.


Doesn't make it a league. Leagues have teams.

(Yes, I know that technically there are teams in NASCAR, but it is mostly an individual sport)

mat8drb

mat8drb

United Kingdom
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:31 PM

ClubsBabyJesus said:
Are you making up the rules as you go along now? tongue

No! It's what I said the first time! wink An nice extension would be to expand it to more variables, so you could then look at different team forms of motorsport, such as F1, Nascar, IRL, Cart, etc. That'd be cool.

datsun

datsun

Richmond, CA
October 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:34 PM

mamet said:

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:

PointBlank said:

mat8drb said:
Rugby and cricket were omitted because they do not have a big following in the US.



Odd that they included soccer then.


Yeah, I didn't get that, because I'd be shocked if it was any higher than the fifth most popular sport in the U.S. In my jaded view of America, the first four team sports must be football, basketball, baseball and hockey. But it is more popular in the U.S. than rugby or cricket. What other "major" national leagues are there? (All I know of is NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS and the Baseball one).


To be honest, hockey is doing very poorly here too. In addition to the leagues you mentioned, I'd include the WNBA, as well as the PGA (which probably has better TV numbers than either hockey or soccer).

EDIT-Yes, Nascar too. And the US Tennis association.

[Edited on Jan 10, 2006 by PointBlank]



I'm sure the PGA definitely does. I'd be curious to see the numbers on the WNBA, though. That one I'm not so sure about.


I'm having trouble finding a link, but I know I've read that soccer is one of the the fastest-growing sports. it is played by a lot of kids across the US, and it has been growing by leaps and bounds since the first time I strapped on some cleats more than 20 years ago. rugby is going to catch up at some point, but at this moment, soccer is gaining a following in the US that it's never seen before, and is one of the only "international" sports that is popular in the US (Nascar is hardly the same as LeMans; basketball, football, and basketball all achieved their footing in the US before getting a national following; golf is one of the only other sports watched in the US that originated elsewhere).

[Edited on Jan 10, 2006 by datsun]

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:34 PM

ClubsBabyJesus said:

PointBlank said:

ClubsBabyJesus said:

mamet said:

PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge



HUGE

...and the fastest growing "sport" in America, as the southernas point out EVERY fucking time it's brought up.


Doesn't make it a league. Leagues have teams.

(Yes, I know that technically there are teams in NASCAR, but it is mostly an individual sport)



I don't see how it's more individual than baseball. Only one man at a time can score points in baseball too. Only one man is to the plate at a time. The driver does all the scoring but his mechanics and pit crew spend long hours training and reading the car, without which the driver could not score points.


What are you talking about? In NASCAR, Dale Earnhart wins the race or the Winston Cup. In Major League baseball, The White Sox win the game or the world series.

Keep arguing away, though.

whitepuma

whitepuma

Australia
March 2004

JAN 10, 2006 01:38 PM

As far as excitment goes it matters not weather the underdog wins or loses but how the game is played. I have watched games that were close with the favorite only just wining and was bored and at the same time i have watched one sided mates with slaughters on he field but not matter how much they were losing by the losing team refused to give up and made a game of it. The score line only really matters if you have money on the game or its your team. I think these guys need to watch a city vs country / state or origin / super 14s fianl or the afl/league finals series plus this new 20-20 thing in cricket

mamet

mamet

Charleston, SC
March 2005

JAN 10, 2006 01:42 PM

ClubsBabyJesus said:

PointBlank said:

ClubsBabyJesus said:

PointBlank said:

ClubsBabyJesus said:

mamet said:
PointBlank said:
Actually, fuck that. NASCAR is not a major league.



Dude, NASCAR is huge



HUGE

...and the fastest growing "sport" in America, as the southernas point out EVERY fucking time it's brought up.


Doesn't make it a league. Leagues have teams.

(Yes, I know that technically there are teams in NASCAR, but it is mostly an individual sport)



I don't see how it's more individual than baseball. Only one man at a time can score points in baseball too. Only one man is to the plate at a time. The driver does all the scoring but his mechanics and pit crew spend long hours training and reading the car, without which the driver could not score points.


What are you talking about? In NASCAR, Dale Earnhart wins the race or the Winston Cup. In Major League baseball, The White Sox win the game or the world series.

Keep arguing away, though.



His team wins. Listen to his accemptance speech. Just like a coach or a quaterback or a pitcher are credited with winning a game or leading a team.

Yep.

And (god rest his soul), Dale Earnhardt isn't winning anything, and it's the Nextel Cup.

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