alpha_hazard said:
I saw a film about richard serra. Kids were shouting to hear the echoes off his work and being shushed. I like to think that Serra prefers people to explore the work, rather than reflect on it.
It's not about respecting people, it's about having a ridiculous expectation of children and a pompous view of art. While I can't stand people who talk too loud about a paintings FRAME, I can't respect someone who walks into a gallery and doesn't turn into a totally pretentious prick because they've seen "Pollock" and think they are suddenly experts on modern art.
Kids want to interact with art because it's hard for them to understand the abstract concept behind work. They experience things differently, and should therefore be allowed to interact with art differently. I'm not saying they should be allowed to touch every monet or climb on the berninis, but it's bullshit to expect a kid to be seen and not heard when they are forced to endure their parent's need to experience something "cultural". And honestly, if you want your kids to be cultured take them to a science or history museum, or a play...they won't be bored to tears, and they'll still experience something that isn't psp or spongebob.
And the kid PROBABLY stuck his gum on the frankenthaler because there was PROBABLY gum already on it... (not really, but if it had been a Pollock there definitely was. Or at least cigarette butts.)
dingoes8 said:
I get pretty restless at art shows or museums and start tugging on the sleeve of whomever I'm with, asking to go to Taco Bell. I guess I'm not a poser.
Something about the Gugenheim makes me want a chalupa, too!
Who puts gum on a painting? If I put gum on a painting, my father would have hit me so hard I'd look like a Picasso.
But then again, we went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where a few items are priceless -yeah, it's not the Louvre, but it's pretty damn nice.
Maybe it's some sort of contempt for modern art (not the style, I just mean recent creations) that keeps these people from being able to control their kids so much as to not put GUM on a painting.
Roethke said:
Artists should be pleased about children's lack of inhibition, expressed through vandalism and fart jokes.
Are you serious? When is it ever OK to desecrate someone else's work without consent?
I think she was being sarcastic.
I was being sarcastic. More than one of my art exhibits has had "18+ or accompanied by a parent or guardian" on the door. Art galleries are not appropriate places to take children. If a child stuck gum on one of my pieces, he or his parents would be paying for it.
Although I've seen adults behave far worse than children at galleries. WHy is it so hard to understand that you can't touch the painting?
Oh fuck yeah. I see all kinds of idiots touching paintings are our First Friday events here in Las Vegas. Drives me fucking nuts. Nearly all of the touchers are old enough to know better. I always want to call them on it.
Roethke said:
Artists should be pleased about children's lack of inhibition, expressed through vandalism and fart jokes.
Are you serious? When is it ever OK to desecrate someone else's work without consent?
I think she was being sarcastic.
I was being sarcastic. More than one of my art exhibits has had "18+ or accompanied by a parent or guardian" on the door. Art galleries are not appropriate places to take children. If a child stuck gum on one of my pieces, he or his parents would be paying for it.
Although I've seen adults behave far worse than children at galleries. WHy is it so hard to understand that you can't touch the painting?
Oh fuck yeah. I see all kinds of idiots touching paintings are our First Friday events here in Las Vegas. Drives me fucking nuts. Nearly all of the touchers are old enough to know better. I always want to call them on it.
I think that children were being talked about more so because of the screaming and obnoxiousness. You don't automatically think of a grown adult behaving badly but once kids are mentioned being in an art gallery...you think of a situation much like a McDonalds playground. But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
ILament
But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
Children that are better mannered than adults are an exception.
Is it discriminatory to not allow children under 17 to enter a "R" rated movie?
No, they can't handle the content. Similarly, children can't comprehend that fine art is to be observed only.
An artist is perfectly within their right to ask that no children be admitted to their exhibit.
A) I think it is incredibly important to expose children to art (actually anything that will broaden their emerging conceptions of the world they inhabit).
B) Artists and their works should be respected, just as one should teach their child to respect any viewpoint presented to them, not matter what the medium.
C) It is the responsibility of the parent to educate their child on the appropriate protocol on being in a gallery/museum setting. It is especially the parents responsibility to accurately gauge their child's interest and maturity levels so as not to force them to experience art but rather make sure the child will be receptive to it.
None of this is to say that I feel that a child running amok in a museum is appropriate, nor do I feel very sympathetic with the aging art snob who glares at the toddler who raises their voice a little too loud in the gallery. I mean Jesus Christ people, it is a child.
This being said, I was at the Calder exhibit at the SFMOMA about a month back and have to say quite honestly that I immensely enjoyed watching a young father walk around the giant mobiles with his little boy, and pointing things out to him. The kid looked like the only person in that gallery who actually got Calder. Then there was the late-teen poseur who's head I almost put through a Pollock when he (clad in his designer jeans and fucking velvet blazer) stepped right in front of me while I was taking the peice in...he proceeded to do it again on one floor later when I was looking at an Ernst...fucker.
ILament
But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
Children that are better mannered than adults are an exception.
Is it discriminatory to not allow children under 17 to enter a "R" rated movie?
No, they can't handle the content. Similarly, children can't comprehend that fine art is to be observed only.
An artist is perfectly within their right to ask that no children be admitted to their exhibit.
I agree that it should be the right of the artist to limit their audience to adults if they so choose. But I really have to wonder about the long term fallout of this. How do we expect as a culture to gain respect for other people's space and work (as shalome stated) if we don't encourage children to experience these things at an early age.
I may be a little relentless with this theme, and if so, I appologize. In my defense, I was raised by an artist and was exposed at a very early age to art.
This reminds of going wine tasting. What the hell are these parents thinking taking their child wine tasting? Unless of course, they've bothered to teach their child how to drink wine and enjoy it. Whoops, there are legal ramifications to that.
Anyway, much as I would like children to expand their minds and appreciate art galleries. Unfortunately, my experience has been parents for the most part no longer teach their children to respect anything, let alone art. Give them their cellphones, a coke and a smile.
ILament
But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
Children that are better mannered than adults are an exception.
Is it discriminatory to not allow children under 17 to enter a "R" rated movie?
No, they can't handle the content. Similarly, children can't comprehend that fine art is to be observed only.
An artist is perfectly within their right to ask that no children be admitted to their exhibit.
I agree that it's completely up to the artist and their choice, But, I do have a problem with people branding kids as snot nosed brats. And, I do find it is necessary for children to be exposed to art...even more so than adults.
ILament
But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
Children that are better mannered than adults are an exception.
Is it discriminatory to not allow children under 17 to enter a "R" rated movie?
No, they can't handle the content. Similarly, children can't comprehend that fine art is to be observed only.
An artist is perfectly within their right to ask that no children be admitted to their exhibit.
I agree that it should be the right of the artist to limit their audience to adults if they so choose. But I really have to wonder about the long term fallout of this. How do we expect as a culture to gain respect for other people's space and work (as shalome stated) if we don't encourage children to experience these things at an early age.
I may be a little relentless with this theme, and if so, I appologize. In my defense, I was raised by an artist and was exposed at a very early age to art.
I was just refuting the point that age restriction to a gallery was discriminatory.
Sure, children should be exposed to everything, but not at the sacrifice of that something.
Anyway, much as I would like children to expand their minds and appreciate art galleries. Unfortunately, my experience has been parents for the most part no longer teach their children to respect anything, let alone art. Give them their cellphones, a coke and a smile.
I think that children were being talked about more so because of the screaming and obnoxiousness. You don't automatically think of a grown adult behaving badly but once kids are mentioned being in an art gallery...you think of a situation much like a McDonalds playground. But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
Much of my work is very sexual and erotic. It's not because I don't want them to see it, it's because I don't want to get in trouble for letting kids in to see the sexy artwork. Some of my work has given adults nightmares, so I don't think it would be ok to show it to someone who was completely unprepared to see it. I don't think my work is that freaky, but it is often sexual in nature and most children aren't equipped to deal with that.
There are kids who are incredibly well behaved, and that's always fantastic. But kids who don't want to look at art should not be forced to because it just ends up being a disservice to the artist.
My older sister will often bring one or two of he three children with her to galleries, and makes sure that the work is appropriate for them to view. The kids are typically well mannered around the work and enjoy the visit, but when they stop enjoying it, they go home.
I think that children were being talked about more so because of the screaming and obnoxiousness. You don't automatically think of a grown adult behaving badly but once kids are mentioned being in an art gallery...you think of a situation much like a McDonalds playground. But, the truth is that there are kids who are better mannered than adults. I can understand a kid wanting to go look into an art gallery and not necessarily forced by their parents...so, in a way it's almost discriminitory to not allow all ages in art galleries when age is clearly not the issue.
Much of my work is very sexual and erotic. It's not because I don't want them to see it, it's because I don't want to get in trouble for letting kids in to see the sexy artwork. Some of my work has given adults nightmares, so I don't think it would be ok to show it to someone who was completely unprepared to see it. I don't think my work is that freaky, but it is often sexual in nature and most children aren't equipped to deal with that.
There are kids who are incredibly well behaved, and that's always fantastic. But kids who don't want to look at art should not be forced to because it just ends up being a disservice to the artist.
My older sister will often bring one or two of he three children with her to galleries, and makes sure that the work is appropriate for them to view. The kids are typically well mannered around the work and enjoy the visit, but when they stop enjoying it, they go home.
[Edited on Apr 12, 2006 by Roethke]
Sure, that's completely understandable...but mostly off topic.
catatac
San Diego, CA
June 2005
APR 08, 2006 01:02 PM