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3/26/06

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Rahodeb

Rahodeb

Los Angeles, CA
March 2006

MAR 18, 2006 07:30 PM

Steven Spielberg, arguably the reigning king of Hollywood, is having a bad hair day. Apparently an angry Apache family, whose eight-year old daughter worked as an extra on Spielberg's television mini-series "Into the West", is suing the producers of the show. It seems that a stylist cut little Christina Ponce's hair without asking her parents first, violating a Mescalero Apache tradition which dictates that a girl's hair not be cut until her Coming of Age Ceremony. Before it was cut to make her look more like a boy, Ponce's hair fell midway down her back. Her family is suing for $250,000 (for emotional distress) and $75,000 (in damages). Christina's father, Danny Ponce, has suggested that increased multi-cultural awareness and sensitivity might be a good thing.

New Mexico governor Bill Richardson has increased state efforts to attract the film industry there in recent years.

Mr. Ponce said that, while he welcomed this, film-makers from outside the state should try to be more culturally sensitive.

"Just because you're wealthy, you don't do something without checking first," he said.



Oh, Danny. Haven't you learned anything from the history of America? Cultural sensitivity toward Native Americans? Pshaw. Guffaw. Still, I wish you luck in your quest to show that even the disenfranchised, mainly invisible and forgotten Native Americans deserve to be seen and treated as more than Hollywood caricatures. Channel the spirit of young Geronimo, your Chiricahua Apache cousin, who bravely fought for your peoples' freedom, and learn from the older Geronimo's sad acquiescence.

Jaklyn

Jaklyn

Toronto, ON
January 2004

MAR 18, 2006 07:34 PM

that's kind of ridiculous. it was clearly an accident.

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Canada
November 2002

MAR 18, 2006 07:39 PM

Shouldn't the girl have maybe... said something? I'm just guessing but I doubt the stylist knew it would be a problem.

ARRR!!!

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 18, 2006 07:41 PM

FreakPirate said:
Shouldn't the girl have maybe... said something? I'm just guessing but I doubt the stylist knew it would be a problem.

ARRR!!!


Yup. Clearly the 8 year old is at fault. surreal

FreakPirate

FreakPirate

Canada
November 2002

MAR 18, 2006 07:43 PM

PointBlank said:

Yup. Clearly the 8 year old is at fault. surreal



Sorry, I suppose the girl's parents should have probably said something.

It's still ridiculous to sue a stylist for something like this.

ARRR!!!

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

MAR 18, 2006 07:49 PM

FreakPirate said:

PointBlank said:

Yup. Clearly the 8 year old is at fault. surreal



Sorry, I suppose the girl's parents should have probably said something.

It's still ridiculous to sue a stylist for something like this.

ARRR!!!


The stylist isn't being sued, the producers are. Secondly, the parents WOULD have said something if they had been asked. They weren't. That's the whole point of the law suit.

Gryphon840

Gryphon840

Murfreesboro, TN
November 2005

MAR 18, 2006 08:14 PM

h

[Edited on Mar 18, 2006 8:15PM]

Gryphon840

Gryphon840

Murfreesboro, TN
November 2005

MAR 18, 2006 08:15 PM

Gryphon said:
what stylist knows the fucking traditions of some tribe unless someone tells the stylist. It is the fault of the parents for not asking questions about the process. When the child is an employee and no warning has been given by the parents - well tough shit.



The parents don't have to be asked -the kid's a fuckin employee held by contract. Unless it puts the child in danger or a questionable situation, they don't really have to ask the parents anything.

ardour

ardour

Ottawa, ON
March 2006

MAR 18, 2006 08:16 PM

Generally you should ask a parent if you're going to cut their 8 year old's hair. tongue

That's a lot of money!

dingoes8

dingoes8

Milwaukee, WI
March 2004

MAR 18, 2006 08:28 PM

This doesn't surprise me. Remember the controversy when he forcibly circumcised all the extras in Schindler's List?

Jaklyn

Jaklyn

Toronto, ON
January 2004

MAR 18, 2006 08:39 PM

haha

Aaron

Aaron

Shakopee, MN
July 2004

MAR 18, 2006 09:08 PM

PointBlank said:

FreakPirate said:
Shouldn't the girl have maybe... said something? I'm just guessing but I doubt the stylist knew it would be a problem.

ARRR!!!


Yup. Clearly the 8 year old is at fault. surreal


When I was 8 I had the power of speech and I would be able to say something like, "I've never had a hair cut because I'm not supposed to until I'm older." A statement like that might elicit more questions from the stylist people who could then get to the bottom of things.

The little girl isn't at fault but expecting her to speak up is totally reasonable.

[Edited on Mar 18, 2006 by AaronB]

mQx

mqx

Seattle, WA
January 2003

MAR 18, 2006 09:08 PM

PointBlank said:

FreakPirate said:
Shouldn't the girl have maybe... said something? I'm just guessing but I doubt the stylist knew it would be a problem.

ARRR!!!


Yup. Clearly the 8 year old is at fault. surreal



Yes, maybe she should be clued in a little more about her cultual heritage if it's that important. An eight year old is smart enough to know what's what if her parents would have let her know.

By the way, is it too much to ask to expect a culture editor who lives in LA to know how to spell arguably the reigning king of Hollywood's name correctly? smile

Hooraydiation

Hooraydiation

Boston, MA
October 2005

MAR 18, 2006 09:12 PM

8 year olds also tend to trust adults, at times unquestionably so. It could've been a timid one.

Motionboy

Motionboy

Vancouver, BC
January 2004

MAR 18, 2006 09:17 PM


By the way, is it too much to ask to expect a culture editor who lives in LA to know how to spell arguably the reigning king of Hollywood's name correctly? smile



lol , beat me to it smile

mQx

mqx

Seattle, WA
January 2003

MAR 18, 2006 09:21 PM

oyaji said:

Mqx said:

PointBlank said:

FreakPirate said:
Shouldn't the girl have maybe... said something? I'm just guessing but I doubt the stylist knew it would be a problem.

ARRR!!!


Yup. Clearly the 8 year old is at fault. surreal



Yes, maybe she should be clued in a little more about her cultual heritage if it's that important. An eight year old is smart enough to know what's what if her parents would have let her know.

By the way, is it too much to ask to expect a culture editor who lives in LA to know how to spell arguably the reigning king of Hollywood's name correctly? smile



Many 8 year olds are timid and easily cowed by adults. It's a bit unfair to put this on the 8 year old.



Actually, I'm putting it on the parents to be perfectly clear. If it was that important to them they would have impressed that upon her and she would have had no trouble telling a hair stylist to back off.

By the way, that mini-series was filmed almost two years ago. Is this just coming up now?

Buster_Bluth

Buster_Bluth

Los Angeles, CA
January 2004

MAR 18, 2006 09:25 PM

Mmm...maybe this sort of thing is the breaks when parents pimp out their eight year old.

Madmagg666

madmagg666

Miami, FL
October 2002

MAR 18, 2006 09:33 PM

How does this state a valid legal claim?

MrStitches

MrStitches

Brooklyn, NY
November 2003

MAR 18, 2006 09:58 PM

oyaji said:

Jaklyn said:
that's kind of ridiculous. it was clearly an accident.



I dunno.

What if they were hindu and the food service on the movie accidentally fed them beef?

Or if they were muslim or jewish and were given pork accidentally?

I guess the point is that before you do something to someone's kid, you should make sure it's okay first....

Whether that's worth $250k is another matter.



If parent's don't want their kids eating cow, then it's their job to make that clear to anyone who might be feeding them. I've never been in a movie, but I think it is a valid assumption that a lot of hair gets cut for movies. If you don't want your kid's hair cut, and you put them in a situation where it's possible that it might, then you say something.
This is absurd. $325,000. . .

mQx

mqx

Seattle, WA
January 2003

MAR 18, 2006 09:59 PM

oyaji said:

What if she knew full well but is naturally afraid of and or intimdated by adults? Or her parents also impressed on her the importance of following the directions of and respecting adults? There's a reason why children are generally not expected to be able to take care of themselves. It's because, in general, they can't. They are immature. It's a rare 8 year old who has the presence of mind and confidence to do what you expected this little girl to do. And no amount of coaching from parents can change that.

[Edited on Mar 19, 2006 by oyaji]



Using an example from above, how many muslim eight year olds do you think eat pork when an adult gives it to them? My friend's four year old knew better than to eat peanuts since she was allergic. Let's take it even simplier. At what age do we know when we're lying?

I don't think you give kids enought credit, but that's besides the point.

The parents didn't impress the importance to the child, based on the account we've been given. And besides, what parent isn't going to ask what's going to happen to their child in the hands of strangers? This hair cutting thing was decided at some point during the process. Where were they?

At best it sounds like the parentsdidn't educating their child well enough and now they want to be rewarded for it.

catdad

catdad

Portland, OR
August 2002

MAR 18, 2006 10:00 PM

not to be an ass, but is putting your eight year old daughter out as an extra in films part of the Mescalero Apache tradition as well?

mQx

mqx

Seattle, WA
January 2003

MAR 18, 2006 10:01 PM

oyaji said:

Madmagg666 said:
How does this state a valid legal claim?



a) assault

b) battery

c) Intentional infliction of emotional distress

are the three torts that you could make a prima facie argument for, off the top of my head.



And lawyers wonder why people hate them. biggrin

malmuud

malmuud

Newark, DE
July 2003

MAR 18, 2006 10:12 PM

Mqx said:
This hair cutting thing was decided at some point during the process. Where were they?



Who knows, who cares? Where has the studio been for the last fifty years when the US became extremely kid sensitive? Shouldn't they have an army of lawyers protecting them from making stupid decisions like altering a child's looks without the parents' consent?

Bandrew

bandrew

Tucson, AZ
March 2006

MAR 18, 2006 10:18 PM

BEST THING EVER!

AndrewB

AndrewB

Victoria, BC
August 2003

MAR 18, 2006 10:25 PM

Any special conditions should have been laid out in the child's contract or been previously made known by the parents. If your child is an extra in a movie you have to expect that they are going to alter the child's appearance, such as putting the child in a costume, applying makeup, and styling the hair in some fashion (which may or may not involve cutting it.) In which case the parents should also alert them of any known allergies to fabrics (such as wool), ingredients in makeup, and food allergies if they exist.

If their child’s health and cultural customs are so important to the parents, they should bring it up beforehand rather than waiting for someone else to ask.

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