A Question for Designers

I know there is a large % of the membership here who work/are training as/to be Graphic Designers, so I figured I'd pose this question to the boards.

As an employer, I've been through three on-staff designers now. I've always assumed that people go into design because, they simply loved to design things - and therefor working for us should be awesome! They just get to design album covers, books, advertisements, DVD packaging etc. all day long - and get paid.

To my s'prize, it is a HUGE pain in the ass to get my past designers to do any work at all. Work that I'm under the impression that they love to do?

So here's my, multi-part, question:

1. Is there some other MAJOR reason people get into design?
2. Do you notice a large number of your peers chose design in college because they thought it would be the easy way out/didn't want to work/read much etc?
3. if yes, does that piss you off because you seriously love it?
4. Is it simply a matter of - "drawing all day long IS fun, but it loses something when it's a job?"
5. Is there something lacking in my motivation or management?

Any insight is helpful into the minds of designers, because I'm certainly lost.

My accountant works his ass off, but I can't get someone to draw pictures all day? This is confusing to me.

-a!

In my experience (ad agency) a lot of people go into graphic design because they think it's the next best thing to rockstar.

Shit, hire me, I'll do it!

Um I should mention I have little "professional experience" perse... but I'm damn good with a pencil and pen!

The only reason I could fathom that someone would slack in a field like that would be lack of enthusiasm. If you're not excited about a project it's hard to do it well, no matter what field you're in. Are you interactive as a manager? Are there any incentives for the designers? Is the company designing things that people can get behind or for something like Walmart or the US Defense Administration or Aryan Death Metal bands? I'd personally find it difficult to put any effort into a design for something I was morally opposed to.
Perhaps...
Right-brain/Left-brain. Left-brained people tend to be methodical, logical, etc...everything that's "businesslike" and "professional". Like accountants. Right-brainers are more chaotic and artistic people like artists. Are you as a manager appealing to their chaotic, free-flowing side or are you expecting them to just get right to it like the accountant?

Maybe?

Good luck...

Personally I enjoy a bit of designing and have produced some okish stuff, but to be honest, its only at a hobby/enjoymnent level, because there is no demand or pressure for results, just comes and goes and produced better results as a consequence.

I think a lot of people get involved due to the personal enjoyment, but yes as you stated, it can loose its fun once its made into a job.


As for your managment, it would help with a bit more insight into your current techniques, cultures, motivation style and current views of employees before coming to a conclusion as to the problem and possible solutions.

Mostly, we have a strict stabbing-in-the-face style of management. Also, we strongly support verbal abuse and holding family members at ransom.

mostly

mostly eh... hmm interesting... well then I suggest that you go for the more subtle rubber band and testicle fight-club-esque technique, which may produce better results, failing that, a more realistic reply to a genuine enquiry and potential helpful aftercomments may prove succesful.

Right; essentially - it's too much to get into, I'm generally asking if there are common pitfalls, people with experience in the matter etc. If it doesn't apply, it doesn't apply.

what fridge says here should not be taken entirely in gest.
i did the album covers, the dvd packaging, print, story boards, even some IT work, and it was never enough to make up for the fact that the band never signed the contract with sony/ epic. art lost a lot of its appeal to me after having to do it for a paycheck. i suppose music would have done the same thing.

i didn't go to school for graphic design. i just sort of fell into it.

now i'm getting my masters in english. ask me what i'll do after this.

but no, i don't think it's you.

for me, it was kinda like... i can't make a living selling paintings and sculptures so, until i can, i'll do this graphic design thing. totally burned me out. then you have people like twwly that LIVE for it. it is their art. i'm just lazy. ask anyone that gets a tattoo from me. they have to twist my fucking arm to get me to sit down and do it. i just can't settle. i have a lot to say about all of this, but i have to go see my therapist.



[Edited on Jan 23, 2006 by Meaney]

I wasn't kidding at all. A lot of the designers I know, are in it because they have deluded themselves into thinking that they are "great artists" who should be allowed to come and go as they please, and do whatever the fuck they want to do, whenever they want to do it.

There are certainly a lot of very hard working designers too, but a lot of them think it's some kind of cool "lifestyle job."

are they actually being lazy or do they just take a long time?

i'm a art and design student right now, my love is mostly with animation and illustration but you take what you can get you know so i do some webdesign, printwork etc.

i always enjoyed working for myself, shaping the things i had on my mind but the first time i got an internship i was suddenly apalled at how hard it was for me to design something with a deadline, assignment restrictions and a client based attitude (i.e. don't do it perfect, do it on time and cheap)
my mind was suddenly a blank in those moments so i took a lot longer than usual for me.

also i think there's a lot of creative people out there that can draw, or just happen to know various design skills and market themselfs without actually being a designer.
it's the whole i-know-photoshop-therefor-i-am-a-designer attitude.

This is a very good point - but I'll correct something

Clients aren't saying, "don't do it good, do it on time and cheap," what they're saying is...

"do it on time, cheap AND it had better look amazing."

Unreasonable? No way - there are people out there who can do it, and do it all the time. (edited to add: they're hard to find apparently)

[Edited on Jan 23, 2006 by mk700c]

i know there are, which put a lot of pressure on me though, the people that do pull that of are usually more talented or have way more experience than me.

i have to admit i didn't have a great internship company, between the manager with horrible taste barking down my back, the deadlines, schedules, restrictions and all that i experienced it as quite horrible despite the fact that i always really enjoyed the work outside a corperate enviroment.

ofcourse you have every right to expect your designers to deliver what you pay them for, i just think that there's a lot of people in design for the wrong reasons.
i can draw reasonably well, i enjoy doing it, i enjoy illustration and animation but right now i'm at a crossroads where i'm trying to decide whether i should push ahead in such a competetive industry, it's a whole different ballgame when you're not doing it for personal enjoyment anymore.

right now i figure i'll give it a try, i'm nearly done with the education anyway and it would be rather stupid to just give up without even trying to make it in the industry.
i can always fail and do something else afterwards but i still have to try which means i might just end up as just another failed designer. (which means some boss is going to ask himself the same thing you are)

that said design isn't even my main goal, illustration and 2d animation is where my real love is, i just learned to use photoshop, illustrator, html, css and so on during my education so i won't turn down any job where i can use those skills, even if that means potentially failing at it.

we were a small company that designed album covers for skee-lo, smashing pumpkins, joel holkstra, mob fest, etc. the lifestyle was cool as hell. the deadlines were what killed us. plus being a musician and doing all this shit for musicians that saw you as average joes with a 9 to 5 job was a let down. i can do all that fancy photoshop crap. and quark and illustrator and after affects... i just don't want to do it forever. i'd rather go to grad school and then go into some phd program and make little sg membership cards than sit in a room thinking, "where do i go from here?" for some people, it's enough. i've just tasted a much larger slice of life and am too proud to settle for anything less. if you're serious about it, then more power to ya. i'll be the one collecting cans at age 40.

i'm having a lot of doubts about it myself, the first diploma i got was for corperate administration.
at the time i thought "my god, i can't be pushing numbers my entire life i'd go mad", so i went out and enrolled in this art and design education to pursue the love of illustration and animation, learning those programs along the way.

now i'm one bad internship later and thinking "christ what a cutthroat, competetive business", during my internship i was literally too stressed out and scared to come up with even the simplest designs, my mind was simply scared blank, i never thought that would happen.
so now the internship is over, i'm back in school for my graduating year and the angst is through the roof about what's going to happen after school,

i want to try because after all that internship was one bad experience and i should at least try after all those years of school right, but still some of those experiences during that internship made the numbercrunching administration job seem like a safe haven instead of a boring hell.

anyway i'll shut up about that since i don't want this threat to turn into my personal anxiety vent but i can defenitly understand why there's far more "designers" than designers.

That cutthroat, competitive nature of the business takes all the Romance right out of art, huh? Which is what drives many artists in the first place. How. fucking. sad.

Yeah...I withdraw my application then.

no no.

don't base your decision on what you've read here. it just so happens that a few of the "art for art's sake" people got here first. all the people that love design are at work. we're at home, thinking about where it all went wrong and how we're gonna pay rent. wait until some of the hardcore designers catch wiff of this thread.

and, of course, i'm speaking for myself, based on my own experiences.

chin up.

i''m trying (applyed todo it) to get to uni this september to do product design

i know its goning to be hard

but i'm doing it becase i like desigin/graphic work and also because after learning how to make funiture i may as well lern how to design it

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, a lot of good points.

Some of which I understand, some of which I'll have to investigate.

I think the bottom line is, a good designer is hard to find.

and Tuffy, I can't remember exactly when/why, but I think I emailed you re:freelance awhile back. I'll send you some detail on us - as I do like your stuff.

very true that

though i can draw i can't draw to make a liveing though i could design anyone here a lovely built in wardrobe or a footstool

yes, well, they're absolutely darling membership cards. I certainly adore mine, and am in awe - I couldn't make one to save my life!

I can resoundly say that #4 IS SO FUCKING TRUE!. I work in the field of clothing design and had a passion for it until I got out in the real world and had to go work for someone else... The 9-5 path takes a lot of fun out of designing to the point where you become a little appathetic and annoyed with your job.

I mean designing was so much more FUN when I was in school staying up late messing with my creativity over a glass of wine and a smoke instead of sitting at a drafting table watching the clock tick.

Okay, I still have my passion for clothing, but it was different when I was in school... It felt more alive.

Okay, there is SERIOUSLY something wrong here.

... it's Tuesday.

cut and paste, resize font = 4 days?